What are your observations of face coverings wearing on public transport?

timothyw9 · 20 Jun 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
Yes, it's an old notice from last summer but can anyone spot the conflict of information here?

Interestingly I was on a Northern service the other day on a 156 and they had stickers up on the windows telling people that eating and drinking is prohibited. Didn't notice it on any other of their trains though (195,331,319). How Northern is allowed to make up own rules contradicting the government's when they are owned by the government/OLR baffles me.

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45107 · 20 Jun 2020

yorkie said:
Though, as I type this, I am the only person in my coach (a very common occurrence at the current time, sadly), so I am not sure if I actually need to wear a face covering until someone else enters this coach?

In the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' and 'Fares Advice & Policy' sections of this forum, you are very definite in your views about the law and condition of travel.
Why do you have doubts about wearing face coverings until someone else enters the coach when the 'law' is that it is mandated on board a train ?

Starmill · 20 Jun 2020

Each bus I've seen going past while I'm crossing the road outside has had between 0 and 3 passengers and all masked when present.

CaptainHaddock · 20 Jun 2020

45107 said:
In the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' and 'Fares Advice & Policy' sections of this forum, you are very definite in your views about the law and condition of travel.
Why do you have doubts about wearing face coverings until someone else enters the coach when the 'law' is that it is mandated on board a train ?

There's the law and there's common sense. Clearly there's no need to wear a mask on the train if there's no one anywhere near you!

45107 · 21 Jun 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
There's the law and there's common sense. Clearly there's no need to wear a mask on the train if there's no one anywhere near you!

Picking and choosing what laws to obey ? Thankyou Dominic.

There are plenty of laws I disagree with, but I don't deliberately set out to break them.

furlong · 21 Jun 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
Clearly there's no need to wear a mask on the train if there's no one anywhere near you!

That''s not what the law says. If they had actually provided an explanation of what the coverings were supposed to achieve - and even better, backed it up with studies and evidence - then you might be justified, but sadly people have lots of contradictory opinions about that so your "common sense" is not necessarily someone else's. For example, reducing spread of viruses into the air then landing on surfaces where the next passenger might enounter them (but it can't be for reasons related to the practical spread of the virus because they exempted higher-rsk railway staff from the requirement).

Huntergreed · 21 Jun 2020

Not sure if this was the case in England, but certainly where I am in Scotland two days before it becomes compulsory there's next to nobody wearing face coverings at present. I will keep you updated as to what compliance is like from my observations from Monday onwards, but for now there's still next to nobody doing it (unless the service has come from England, in which case compliance is higher, but still not greater than 50%)

westv · 21 Jun 2020

furlong said:
For example, reducing spread of viruses into the air then landing on surfaces where the next passenger might enounter them

The advice since the beginning is regular hand washing and to avoid touching nose or mouth.

island · 21 Jun 2020

I haven‘t ridden on any public transport since the change came in, but my wife’s observations from London buses are that people are predominantly compliant but bus operators are for the most part not enforcing the rules.

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
There's the law and there's common sense. Clearly there's no need to wear a mask on the train if there's no one anywhere near you!

Common sense appears to have disappeared from the railway - 20 years ago, if you had stations A-B-C and held a ticket A-B but overtravelled to C, but it was the same price, you'd be let off (and indeed bus fares used to be sold only by price, not destination). Now you'd have a reasonable chance of being prosecuted. So that change of view must also surely apply to other rules like masks?

yorkie · 21 Jun 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Common sense appears to have disappeared from the railway - 20 years ago, if you had stations A-B-C and held a ticket A-B but overtravelled to C, but it was the same price, you'd be let off (and indeed bus fares used to be sold only by price, not destination). Now you'd have a reasonable chance of being prosecuted. So that change of view must also surely apply to other rules like masks?

I don't think this analogy works because 1) people often are 'let off' for this; and 2) there is no requirement to prove you have an exemption; exemptions also exist for drinking/eating reasonably; if no-one else is in the carriage at the time then the burden of proof to prosecute may not be there.

But if you wish to discuss this further, it doesn't belong in this observations thread.

route101 · 21 Jun 2020

Huntergreed said:
Not sure if this was the case in England, but certainly where I am in Scotland two days before it becomes compulsory there's next to nobody wearing face coverings at present. I will keep you updated as to what compliance is like from my observations from Monday onwards, but for now there's still next to nobody doing it (unless the service has come from England, in which case compliance is higher, but still not greater than 50%)

Yeah , been on the buses and trains a few times recently in Glasgow. Maybe 40 percent wearing masks , 50 at best. I reckon only at major railway stations it will be enforced.

LowLevel · 21 Jun 2020

route101 said:
Yeah , been on the buses and trains a few times recently in Glasgow. Maybe 40 percent wearing masks , 50 at best. I reckon only at major railway stations it will be enforced.

England was much the same and it changed pretty much overnight. We've started having police officers travelling on board enforcing too.

northernchris · 21 Jun 2020

On the train I was on yesterday everyone in the carriage I was sat was wearing a mask on the outward journey. On the return 2 lads got on without masks and were saying how it was unenforceable and they weren't going to wear one, but despite those all other passengers were

island said:
I haven‘t ridden on any public transport since the change came in, but my wife’s observations from London buses are that people are predominantly compliant but bus operators are for the most part not enforcing the rules.

One of my friends is a bus driver and he says they have been told not to question anyone boarding without a covering. Rightly so too, as transport staff shouldn't be put in a position of confrontation

AM9 · 21 Jun 2020

On an Arriva bus last week I was one of 10 passengers. Every one was sitting there with face coverings on without complaint. Despite what some say here, it looks like compliance is pretty widespread on buses in St Albans, only a few are not wearing face coverings. Of course, of the few not wearing them, some - maybe all, might have genuine health reasons preventing them being worn.

shinkansen1966 · 21 Jun 2020

I may be making a long distance LNER train journey from London to Yorkshire. I shall be visiting family under the designated lockdown bubble scheme. I shall bring my passport and wear a face mask.

What have been other people's experience of long distance train travel? Are you stopped by the police? Are questioned about your train journey by staff?

Socanxdis · 21 Jun 2020

I'd say about 60% of passengers and 80% of staff are wearing it.

43066 · 21 Jun 2020

shinkansen1966 said:
I may be making a long distance LNER train journey from London to Yorkshire. I shall be visiting family under the designated lockdown bubble scheme. I shall bring my passport and wear a face mask.

What have been other people's experience of long distance train travel? Are you stopped by the police? Are questioned about your train journey by staff?

You’re very unlikely to be questioned by either. On train staff, in particular, are tending to remain in one place throughout the journey and are not doing the usual ticket checks etc.

It is perfectly legal to travel on public transport, despite what some TOCs would have you believe!

MikeWM · 21 Jun 2020

Patchy around here. Certainly a much higher % than last week, but much less than 100%.

What doesn’t seem to have changed as a result is the loadings on the trains, which remain dismal. I think there are a whole three passengers (including me) on the whole of the 8-carriage train I’m currently on.

Equally, buses seem as empty as the last few weeks.

With shops reopening, city centres are a lot more busy than before, so I guess either everyone is driving or ‘staying local’.

CaptainHaddock · 21 Jun 2020

LowLevel said:
England was much the same and it changed pretty much overnight. We've started having police officers travelling on board enforcing too.

Are you sure they're police officers and not "Travel Safe Officers" who are just glorified bouncers and do not have the authority to issue fines?

LowLevel · 21 Jun 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
Are you sure they're police officers and not "Travel Safe Officers" who are just glorified bouncers and do not have the authority to issue fines?

Yup. Definitely actual police officers. Travel Safe Officers don't really have any direct authority to do anything around here. They're just another bod in a hi vis vest designed to provide a presence. They're usually accompanied by the guard or police or both who do have the authority to make decisions. In other areas I believe people using the same job title have more authority to act on their own initiative, for better or for worse.

43066 · 21 Jun 2020

LowLevel said:
Yup. Definitely actual police officers. Travel Safe Officers don't really have any direct authority to do anything around here. They're just another bod in a hi vis vest designed to provide a presence. They're usually accompanied by the guard or police or both who do have the authority to make decisions. In other areas I believe people using the same job title have more authority to act on their own initiative, for better or for worse.

Out of interest, what happens if they encounter a person not wearing a mask?

LowLevel · 21 Jun 2020

43066 said:
Out of interest, what happens if they encounter a person not wearing a mask?

The police? I understand for the time being they've been asking the reason and refusing entry rather than issuing FPNs which as I understand it really are desired to be a last resort. They were travelling on the Notts - Worksop trains.

43066 · 21 Jun 2020

LowLevel said:
The police? I understand for the time being they've been asking the reason and refusing entry rather than issuing FPNs which as I understand it really are desired to be a last resort. They were travelling on the Notts - Worksop trains.

Understood, thanks.

It’ll be interesting to see how effectively this can be enforced. AIUI they can’t ask anyone to prove that they fall under any of the exemptions.

nedchester · 21 Jun 2020

Did a journey to Manchester and back using Merseyrail to Liverpool at TPE to Manchester with some Class 68s there and back.

I would reckon 90%+ compliance with the wearing of facemasks. At Liverpool Central the security making sure you are wearing one as you go through the barrier.

On TPE I sat opposite my daughter but in the 'red' seat. The guard came over the PA system about people sitting in the 'red' seats and running trains safely etc.

And yes I did wear a face covering.

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2020

shinkansen1966 said:
I may be making a long distance LNER train journey from London to Yorkshire. I shall be visiting family under the designated lockdown bubble scheme. I shall bring my passport and wear a face mask.

What have been other people's experience of long distance train travel? Are you stopped by the police? Are questioned about your train journey by staff?

Unless you think Yorkshire has seceded from the Union and the People's Republic of Yorkshire is now a thing, you might as well leave your passport at home

BrumKev · 21 Jun 2020

I would say in the West Midlands the compliance has been pretty poor on buses. My mom and sister have used the buses this week for work and say compliance is no more than 50 per cent. I used the bus on Saturday and on the journey leaving Birmingham a group of NINE youths got on and not a single one wore a mask. Surely a group of that size shouldn't be allowed on public transport anyway.

They weren't the only ones, on my journey there out of a total of 16 people (including them 9) only 4 other people and myself were wearing a mask.

LowLevel · 21 Jun 2020

43066 said:
Understood, thanks.

It’ll be interesting to see how effectively this can be enforced. AIUI they can’t ask anyone to prove that they fall under any of the exemptions.

To be fair I've spoken to a few people on the train (in a "hello, can I just check you know the rules", giving them a chance to say yes thank you and me to just move on way - this as a reaction to having had a couple of uncomfortable incidents with members of the public attempting to grill their fellow passengers) and to my surprise every one has either said they felt a bit embarrassed and pulled out some sort of covering and put it on, or claimed ignorance but they will next time/have I got one they can have etc. Even gangs of kids out and about have been producing and wearing them.

Not a single person I've seen has claimed or asked about exemption despite the fact I make a point of mentioning it in my announcements. My sample size is in the hundreds too.

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2020

Gangs of kids love the idea. They make them look "hard", and of course they will evade the CCTV.

Islineclear3_1 · 21 Jun 2020

I made 4 rail journeys yesterday - 2 main-line. All were quite busy (but not the normal Saturday "busy-ness") and as I walked through each main-line train to find a quiet space, about 50% of passengers were not wearing any form of face covering; whilst about 25% of the ones who were, just had them hanging around their necks whilst they were heavily engaged in social talking. On the "branch-line" services, probably 1 person in 6 was wearing a face covering. And surprisingly, many platform dispatch staff at a well known terminus were not wearing any form of face covering

What are your observations of face coverings wearing on public transport?

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