Caledonian Sleeper

CW2 · 20 Jun 2020

Ordinarily the Lowlander would call at Carstairs to split into Glasgow and Edinburgh portions. With the current reduced timetable, Carstairs has had no service, with the booking system refusing to sell tickets.
The 15 July timetable would also seem to omit Carstairs from its plans, as the Lowlander being Edinburgh only means it will go straight round the Carstairs avoider, omitting the Carstairs stop.
It makes sense, because there are very few passengers for Carstairs anyway, and CS save costs by not splitting / joining at Carstairs.

RailUK Forums

hkstudent · 21 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
Ordinarily the Lowlander would call at Carstairs to split into Glasgow and Edinburgh portions. With the current reduced timetable, Carstairs has had no service, with the booking system refusing to sell tickets.
The 15 July timetable would also seem to omit Carstairs from its plans, as the Lowlander being Edinburgh only means it will go straight round the Carstairs avoider, omitting the Carstairs stop.
It makes sense, because there are very few passengers for Carstairs anyway, and CS save costs by not splitting / joining at Carstairs.

That's strange, as National Rail journey planner still shows the train will call at Carstairs (despite no tickets are available from the journey planner)

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

hkstudent said:
That's strange, as National Rail journey planner still shows the train will call at Carstairs (despite no tickets are available from the journey planner)

Odd. Let's wait and see if / when a revised schedule gets uploaded to the system.

6Z09 · 21 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
Odd. Let's wait and see if / when a revised schedule gets uploaded to the system.

Currently does call at Motherwell and Carstairs northbound and southbound.
Can't see either being served under future temporary service if it's as stated in this thread.

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

6Z09 said:
Currently does call at Motherwell and Carstairs northbound and southbound.
Can't see either being served under future temporary service if it's as stated in this thread.

Just to be clear, when you say "currently" I think you mean "currently loaded in the system for the future dates"?
I query it because "currently" (i.e. right now) only the Highlander runs, serving neither Carstairs nor Motherwell.

Peter Sarf · 21 Jun 2020

alistairlees said:
12 I believe. Might be 11 from Euston or even 10 - depends on the number of ftw sleeping cars. Two more coaches (seats and club car) get added to the ftw sleepers at Edinburgh. The other 8 go through to Inverness.

My bold - that wont happen as the seated coach (150xx) will be needed all the way from Euston. Remember a seated coach is required to control up to seven other coaches. If the consist from London is longer than eight coaches (seven plus the seated coach) then another seated coach is required.

The above means that, to/from London a train can be up to eight coaches including one seated coach. Then up to sixteen coaches including two seated coaches. Incidentally it will never be more than sixteen coaches as the WCML (or at least Euston) cannot cope with a longer train.

Now there is a limit on the West Highland Line of something like five coaches. * IS THAT THE CORRECT NUMBER ? *. So if the highlander is as expected soon (Fort William and Inverness only) then the maximum length to/from London will be 13 coaches (8+5). When the Aberdeeen was part of the highlander then the full sixteen ran to/from Euston with an extra two coaches (one seated 150xx) added/removed at Edinburgh for the third (usually/always Fort William) portion.

As an aside - Once Fort William starts up I could argue that the highlander will never go below 11 coaches. Full eight for Inverness then Seated+Lounge+ONEsleeper for Fort William !.

route101 · 21 Jun 2020

How many people use the sleeper from Carstairs a year you reckon?

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

Low double figures, if that.

6Z09 · 21 Jun 2020

CW2, Just to be clear, I think I mean:
For the whole duration of lockdown the Highlander has run, 8 from Inverness and 8 from Glasgow.
The Glasgow portion has called at Motherwell and Carstairs in both directions.
Passengers have joined and alighted at both stations on occasion.

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

6Z09 said:
For the whole duration of lockdown the Highlander has run, 8 from Inverness and 8 from Glasgow.
The Glasgow portion has called at Motherwell and Carstairs in both directions.

Apologies, my mistake.

43096 · 21 Jun 2020

Oscar46016 said:
Does that still mean the FW traction will be a 73 or could there be other traction on the cards?
( asking for a friend )

Has to be a 73. Why would it be anything else?

route101 · 21 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
Low double figures, if that.

I always wonder , if it calls there must be a someone using it.

marks87 · 21 Jun 2020

route101 said:
I always wonder , if it calls there must be a someone using it.

It needs to stop there anyway to split/join so presumably making it a passenger call requires little effort.

popeter45 · 21 Jun 2020

Oscar46016 said:
Does that still mean the FW traction will be a 73 or could there be other traction on the cards?
( asking for a friend )

only 73's and 92's have the fitting required to pull the mark 5's
dont think 92's are even cleared for being dragged on the WHL as a translator as nobody would ever consider doing something like that

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

There's very little at Carstais itself, other than the State Hospital (which doesn't encourage its inmates to travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Hospital
Theoretically it could act as a railhead for the surrounding area, but even so there's not much demand.

In response to popeter45 above, you could couple a 66 to a 73 and work in multi, with the 73 providing coupling and train heat.

Ianno87 · 21 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
There's very little at Carstais itself, other than the State Hospital (which doesn't encourage its inmates to travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Hospital
Theoretically it could act as a railhead for the surrounding area, but even so there's not much demand.

The road network around Carstairs is relatively poor - lots of single carriageways, remote from the M74 or any Primary Routes.

CW2 · 21 Jun 2020

Hmm... I seem to remember a desperate taxi move from Lanark many moons ago. Yes, you are right about the local roads. It's not quite as bad as Dovey Junction, but there are similarities.

First ScotRail · 21 Jun 2020

Something going on this evening. Delayed departure from Euston. CS just tweeted;

Service Update: We apologise to guests waiting to board our service from London Euston this evening. An issue during pre-service train preparations at the depot have caused a significant delay. Further updates to follow.

MrEd · 21 Jun 2020

First ScotRail said:
Something going on this evening. Delayed departure from Euston. CS just tweeted;

Service Update: We apologise to guests waiting to board our service from London Euston this evening. An issue during pre-service train preparations at the depot have caused a significant delay. Further updates to follow.

Let’s hope they get this sorted! On the one hand there aren’t many passengers travelling (about twelve in as many sleeping cars across the whole 16 coaches I’ve heard to be the norm of late), but those that are must be essential travellers, so may well have essential commitments to attend in the morning.

On an unrelated note, what is the reason for CS’ aversion to the standard term ‘passengers’? I’ve never understood ‘guests’ on a train (must be the traditionalist in me).

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2020

MrEd said:
On an unrelated note, what is the reason for CS’ aversion to the standard term ‘passengers’? I’ve never understood ‘guests’ on a train (must be the traditionalist in me).

I think it's all about the whole "hotel experience" thing, that being the term used for people staying in hotels.

Floydlover25 · 21 Jun 2020

First ScotRail said:
Something going on this evening. Delayed departure from Euston. CS just tweeted;

Service Update: We apologise to guests waiting to board our service from London Euston this evening. An issue during pre-service train preparations at the depot have caused a significant delay. Further updates to follow.

Just departed Euston 132L

route101 · 22 Jun 2020

Ianno87 said:
The road network around Carstairs is relatively poor - lots of single carriageways, remote from the M74 or any Primary Routes.

Carstairs feels remote yet its still in the central belt.

Oscar46016 · 22 Jun 2020

185143 said:
Under normal circumstances you can board the seated coach between Edinburgh and Fort William in both directions, and between Kingussie and Inverness in the Northbound direction only. Any ticket can be used.

So from Inverness you could still travel to Avimore?

route101 · 22 Jun 2020

Oscar46016 said:
So from Inverness you could still travel to Avimore?

No , just northbound in morning.

Journeyman · 22 Jun 2020

route101 said:
Carstairs feels remote yet its still in the central belt.

Hence it being the location of the State Hospital!

Ianno87 · 22 Jun 2020

route101 said:
Carstairs feels remote yet its still in the central belt.

Can't imagine it (the bus shelter on the platform) is a very pleasant place to wait at gone midnight on a cold January night...

Bill57p9 · 22 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
There's very little at Carstais itself, other than the State Hospital (which doesn't encourage its inmates to travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Hospital

Are the residents not called "guests" these days?

CW2 said:
Theoretically it could act as a railhead for the surrounding area, but even so there's not much demand.

When I have been on a day train that has stopped at Carstairs I have been surprised by how many people board/alight especially to/from Edinburgh, so I assume it is used as a railhead for the many surrounding villages. Possibly even Lanark.
I would assume the same logic would apply to the sleeper. The only reason I haven't personally is that I tend to end up using the sleeper one way and either day train or fly the other (I live just outside Ayr, an 1 hour drive from Carstairs).

Carstairs is even staffed most of the day.

route101 · 22 Jun 2020

Bill57p9 said:
Are the residents not called "guests" these days?

When I have been on a day train that has stopped at Carstairs I have been surprised by how many people board/alight especially to/from Edinburgh, so I assume it is used as a railhead for the many surrounding villages. Possibly even Lanark.
I would assume the same logic would apply to the sleeper. The only reason I haven't personally is that I tend to end up using the sleeper one way and either day train or fly the other (I live just outside Ayr, an 1 hour drive from Carstairs).

Carstairs is even staffed most of the day.

Yes , Carstairs had its service beefed up few years ago now. Cant remember what was stopping off peak back then.

I suspect a few may park at Cartstairs if they stay in Lanark , and go to Edinburgh.

MrEd · 22 Jun 2020

route101 said:
Yes , Carstairs had its service beefed up few years ago now. Cant remember what was stopping off peak back then.

I suspect a few may park at Cartstairs if they stay in Lanark , and go to Edinburgh.

I suppose it’s a railhead for Carnwath too, and perhaps Biggar?

PG · 23 Jun 2020

CW2 said:
There's very little at Carstais itself, other than the State Hospital (which doesn't encourage its inmates to travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Hospital

Bill57p9 said:
Are the residents not called "guests" these days?

Yet somehow they're not the same kind of "guests" that I'm guessing CS seeks to attract to its services!

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