RMT in dispute with SWR regarding ‘guardian angels’

Monty said:

It's all being put on hold anyway, the company and union are due to talk about it so it at least shows the RMT are willing to discuss the issue. Had an email from them stating while they were officially in dispute with SWR a ballot would only be taken as a last resort.

An article by the Guardian suggests they (the DFT) don't have the numbers and were going to ask the TOCs to dress their own staff in the volunteer tabards to save face.

UK rail bosses rejected call to dress staff like face-mask volunteers

Request came after Grant Shapps’ ‘army of journey makers’ in purple tabards failed to materialise

www.theguardian.com

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It's good to see that both sides are willing to discuss things, the initial tone from the RMT did come across as a little harsh (which I know is fairly typical for them).

Such a tone is likely to cause a positive response from some but also a negative response to the RMT from others, as has been seen on this thread.

I'm sure that it's possible for someone to put into a letter, which is likely to end up in the public domain at some point, all the RMT buzz words but create less of a negative response towards the RMT from a wider audience.

Bikeman78 said:

If those on the Rhymney line are typical then I completely agree.

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Contract security guards have their uses - to guard things where any person that encounters them is automatically in the wrong, e.g. factories out of hours, abandoned premises and the likes.

For any other application, the person needs to have some social skills, and invariably they don't, largely because they don't pay them enough to get the right people.

Curiously my experience of contract security guards in mainland Europe, most notably Germany and the Netherlands, is rather a lot better.

The Ham said:

I'm sure that it's possible for someone to put into a letter, which is likely to end up in the public domain at some point, all the RMT buzz words but create less of a negative response towards the RMT from a wider audience.

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It really requires a change of attitude. They are negative and confrontational, and only ever say "no" to things.

They need to be more conciliatory and propose how things should and could be done in a positive way rather than just "No, our Comrades won't do that, get lost", which is genuinely how their letters read. And to be honest, if anyone speaks to me like that, whoever they are, they get as little as I can possibly give them while not breaking the law.

So in this case not just the aggression, but also something like "We know you have furloughed X ticket office staff, how about bringing them back, we've spoken to the TSSA and they would be happy to recommend that their members take on these roles temporarily", or somesuch. (Note I don't know if they actually have furloughed any ticket office staff, it's an example of how the Union could work with their employers for a mutually acceptable outcome).

PG said:

I'd be hopeful that some kind of compromise can be reached before the ballot is issued.

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Glad to see that the threat of a ballot was enough to convince ministerial minds that this was a non-starter.

43066 said:

EDIT: it sounds like the scheme has potentially been put on hold. What a surprise! It’s just yet another half baked, badly thought out idea from the current government.

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Took the words right out of my mouth!

Monty said:

An article by the Guardian suggests they (the DFT) don't have the numbers and were going to ask the TOCs to dress their own staff in the volunteer tabards to save face.

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Talk about flogging a dead horse! Comes perilously close to fraudulent behaviour (by DafT) in my mind, attempting to get paid staff to 'pretend' they are volunteers.

Swimbar said:

Seems sensible but there is no way that the union would allow any 'surplus' railway office staff to undertake another role.

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Could you explain what you mean please?

I am “office staff” but I hold PTS, dispatch and gateline competency, and therefore frequently muck in when there’s a shortage due to sickness or major incident. Never had a complaint from any unions or colleagues yet - in fact, usually the opposite: “it’s nice to see a manager out doing the job with us”.

jettofab said:

But if the transport sector should be affected, shouldn't everyone within it? Shouldn't the DfT and the top brass at TOCs be leading by example and taking pay cuts or forgoing their salaries altogether before the lower paid end of the railway spectrum see their jobs done by volunteers and worry about their futures?

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Interestingly, as a member of railway management, there’s more chance of train crew and stations staff seeing a pay rise this year than me. Quite honestly, I already know I won’t be get a pay rise, yet my colleagues who get overtime and rest day payments, taking their income way above mine, will potentially get a review later in the year because of union pressures.

tpjm said:

Could you explain what you mean please?

I am “office staff” but I hold PTS, dispatch and gateline competency, and therefore frequently muck in when there’s a shortage due to sickness or major incident. Never had a complaint from any unions or colleagues yet - in fact, usually the opposite: “it’s nice to see a manager out doing the job with us”.



Interestingly, as a member of railway management, there’s more chance of train crew and stations staff seeing a pay rise this year than me. Quite honestly, I already know I won’t be get a pay rise, yet my colleagues who get overtime and rest day payments, taking their income way above mine, will potentially get a review later in the year because of union pressures.

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In the bus industry covering driving duties using managers has been going on for years and is generally well received. Similarly, when moving from an operational grade to a management role it's usual that a pay cut comes with it. The trade off is more challenging and interesting work, and future prospects.

Regarding the earlier comment (not from you) about why shouldn't the DfT take pay cuts, civil servants have endured years of pay cuts, redundancies, worsening conditions and a worse pension scheme. I'm not aware of this happening to railway operational staff.

Interesting reading.

What I don't understand is how the leader of the RMT is, well, the leader of the RMT.

He appears to only have one gear. Reverse.

It was my great misfortune to tune in to 5 Live recently and listened to someone who was completely out of his depth and couldn't put together a coherent sentence.

At the end it turned out that it was Mick Cash; I really didn't know.

Obstruction, bloody mindedness and a pecksniffian approach are the exact opposite of what is needed and required of a leader.

andythebrave said:

Interesting reading.

What I don't understand is how the leader of the RMT is, well, the leader of the RMT.

He appears to only have one gear. Reverse.

It was my great misfortune to tune in to 5 Live recently and listened to someone who was completely out of his depth and couldn't put together a coherent sentence.

At the end it turned out that it was Mick Cash; I really didn't know.

Obstruction, bloody mindedness and a pecksniffian approach are the exact opposite of what is needed and required of a leader.

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Bob Crow was a big loss. Not everyone's cup of tea but at least he could string a sentence together. I've just watched a few interviews on YouTube.

andythebrave said:

Interesting reading.

What I don't understand is how the leader of the RMT is, well, the leader of the RMT.

He appears to only have one gear. Reverse.

It was my great misfortune to tune in to 5 Live recently and listened to someone who was completely out of his depth and couldn't put together a coherent sentence.

At the end it turned out that it was Mick Cash; I really didn't know.

Obstruction, bloody mindedness and a pecksniffian approach are the exact opposite of what is needed and required of a leader.

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Worth his 6 figure salary plus extras then.

andythebrave said:

Interesting reading.

What I don't understand is how the leader of the RMT is, well, the leader of the RMT.

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Probably the least worst option. I’m told by those that know that the RMT Exec makes the Momentum organisation in Labour look like a free thinking, flexible, democratic organisation.

Bald Rick said:

Probably the least worst option. I’m told by those that know that the RMT Exec makes the Momentum organisation in Labour look like a free thinking, flexible, democratic organisation.

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The fact that they have used the word "comrades" in communications in the 2010s (and possibly in 2020 too) says everything you need to know about them. The worst thing about it is that it gives the noble concept of the trade union a really bad name - ASLEF, for instance, are far more measured in how they act.

I don't like Cash's haircut.



























I get it now, as I do feel better for sharing that with the group.

corfield said:

So it doesn’t surprise me the RMT would behave like this for something so intrinsically good. Noting I know someone who retired from the city with more than enough money and does volunteering to “put something back / it’s therapeutic” so the bossiness aspect is perhaps more self reflective on those labelling others with it...

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Hopefully he gets involved in good causes, rather than doing what could be a valuable job for someone in need of paid employment.

the sniper said:

I don't like Cash's haircut.



























I get it now, as I do feel better for sharing that with the group.



Hopefully he gets involved in good causes, rather than doing what could be a valuable job for someone in need of paid employment.

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Sigh. For you, irony is just something other people do.

Maybe he just likes to help people and has a giving attitude rather than the miserablist one of seeing everything as “taking”. But I guess if you are the kind of person that looks to take things, then you’ll judge other people by your own low standards.

Ultimately in a free society what he gets involved in is his choice, not the RMT’s or any other bully boy. Thankfully.

Bald Rick said:

The passengers, ie the people we run the railway for.



Indeed so. And it’s notable that the RMT isn’t kicking up a fuss about that. Or the volunteer bus drivers who transport kids to various events, no doubt doing a very worthwhile job.



I’m not sure what you mean. For what it’s worth, I think they will help passengers, making their journey easier, assist staff in what is a difficult time, and make themselves feel better by doing something to help their local community, during the biggest peacetime crisis this country has had in living memory.

I do not understand what the difference is between someone volunteering to help at their local station, and someone volunteering to help at their local school, library, hospital, church, prison etc. I know several people who would be happy, nay delighted, to do this, including many recently retired railway staff, some of whom will be reading this. And they will be rather disappointed if they are going to be prevented from doing so because a handful of ideological agitators in a union are trying to throw their weight around. Again.

My opinion of course.

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If they are prevented from doing so it may be because it wasn't advertised widely enough. I did a search and found nothing about this in terms of recruitment. Where is the free labour coming from?

Anyone concerned about this can always put in an FOI to the DfT to ask them how many TOCs were contacted about this idea.

If only SWR take up this offer, hopefully there will be some anyalsis as to how SWR performed compared to the TOCs who didn't take up this offer.

If this is a useful thing that SWR do then it might follow that those who don't take it up may struggle more and be worse off. Obviously it depends on how busy they are in comparison.

dk1 said:

That's the bit I dont get. Unless theres something really in it for them.

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Well people saw it worth there while to volunteer for the Olympics. I don't know what was in it for them there.

Tetchytyke said:

There is no reason why volunteers couldn't be supported in getting that competence.

I also doubt that the volunteers at SWR are given a tabard and told to go do as they please. There will be training, a job role, a job description, hours they must work, attire they must wear, H&S rules to follow.

The job is described here: https://volunteeringmatters.org.uk/project/journey-makers/



Sounds like (most of) a CSA to me!

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Thanks for the link.

I might even consider it but being at moderate risk, they might not want people like me and it would depend on what times they want me to help out.

I'm working full time so would want to do it at times that fitted in with that.

Glad to see it's not just SWR they are recruiting for.

infobleep said:

Thanks for the link.

I might even consider it but being at moderate risk, they might not want people like me and it would depend on what times they want me to help out.

I'm working full time so would want to do it at times that fitted in with that.

Glad to see it's not just SWR they are recruiting for.

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It seems that this scheme is on hold for now, anyway. If you want to volunteer you could always consider helping out at a food bank or homeless charity, etc.

That’s probably going to be a lot more rewarding and worthwhile than hectoring people about wearing masks; a job which *could* be done by people on zero hours contracts, many of whom are likely to be getting very little work at the moment.