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Caledonian Sleeper

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CW2

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So if I boarded the "down" sleeper from Inverness - is it only for sleeper passengers all the way to Euston?
You mean the Up sleeper, don't you?
And yes, it is for sleeper (or pre-booked seats) passengers only.
 

berneyarms

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So if I boarded the "down" sleeper from Inverness - is it only for sleeper passengers all the way to Euston?
The departure from Inverness is (under normal circumstances) only available for seated passengers heading to stations south of the Scottish border.

The reason that the northbound service normally picks up seated passengers from Kingussie northwards is to facilitate commuters for a pre-09:00 arrival into Inverness as there are no Scotrail arrivals there off the Highland mainline between 07:53 and 10:28.
 

TimboM

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Don't think it's picking up any seated passengers at all currently.
Correct - as per the CS website (https://www.sleeper.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/) seats are out of action until 31 August and logically the day services provided by the Inverness train (and Fort William train in due course) cannot be provided.

Seated Coaches

There are specific elements of the operational features of our train, which set us apart from other UK operators and as such we have closed all seated coaches at this time up until 31st August 2020...

Day Services

As a result of the impact of COVID 19, we will be temporarily suspending the daytime service from Kingussie, Aviemore and Carrbridge, with effect from Monday 8 June.

Daytime services will also be temporarily suspended on the Fort William line, when the service is introduced from 15 July.

We apologise for the inconvenience this may cause and appreciate the understanding of our guests at this difficult time. We will aim to re-introduce this service as soon as we are able to. Further updates to day services will be noted on this page.


For avid followers of the sleeper on RTT, this is why 1S25 has arrived in the region of 50 minutes early some days recently, or been able to make up significant time en route to Inverness when its been delayed further south.
 

FQTV

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It might also be worth mentioning that, per correspondence from Caledonian Sleeper, Club Cars and lounges are expected to remain closed until 31st August 2020, with no evening availability of food or refreshments. A snack breakfast will be provided in the morning.
 

MrEd

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It might also be worth mentioning that, per correspondence from Caledonian Sleeper, Club Cars and lounges are expected to remain closed until 31st August 2020, with no evening availability of food or refreshments. A snack breakfast will be provided in the morning.

This does not surprise me. In fact, I very much doubt that lounge cars will reopen until social distancing can be scrapped- which may not be for many months yet. Their capacity would be minute if social distancing had to be followed- almost to the point that they’re not worth opening (and staff are put at needless risk).

Perhaps CS might consider in the autumn some kind of room service catering in the evenings, but I suppose it depends on safety precautions and also on loadings. It’s probably fairly easy to buy food for the evening at shop and station outlets at both ends of the line, in any case.
 

PG

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Correct - as per the CS website (https://www.sleeper.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/) seats are out of action until 31 August and logically the day services provided by the Inverness train (and Fort William train in due course) cannot be provided.

Day Services

As a result of the impact of COVID 19, we will be temporarily suspending the daytime service from Kingussie, Aviemore and Carrbridge, with effect from Monday 8 June.


For avid followers of the sleeper on RTT, this is why 1S25 has arrived in the region of 50 minutes early some days recently, or been able to make up significant time en route to Inverness when its been delayed further south.
I'm not an avid follower of the sleeper on RTT but I'm inferring that each of those 3 station calls costs (time-wise) about 15 minutes. Seems a bit on the high side...
 

BRX

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I'm not an avid follower of the sleeper on RTT but I'm inferring that each of those 3 station calls costs (time-wise) about 15 minutes. Seems a bit on the high side...
I assume it's because it's free to run early because there is no timetable for pick up passengers to stick to.
 

PG

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I assume it's because it's free to run early because there is no timetable for pick up passengers to stick to.
In that case, since part of the reason for allowing day passengers between Kingussie and Inverness is to provide a morning journey into Inverness, how do intending passengers know when to arrive at the station to catch the train?

Is it just a case of turn up and wait...
 

alistairlees

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In that case, since part of the reason for allowing day passengers between Kingussie and Inverness is to provide a morning journey into Inverness, how do intending passengers know when to arrive at the station to catch the train?

Is it just a case of turn up and wait...
The sleeper is not picking up passengers at those stations right now; there is no timetable therefore; and nothing for passengers to wait for.

Normally of course, it would follow the advertised timetable.
 

PG

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The sleeper is not picking up passengers at those stations right now; there is no timetable therefore; and nothing for passengers to wait for.

Normally of course, it would follow the advertised timetable.
Ah yes thanks for the clarification though that brings me back to my original point - roughly speaking (in normal circumstances) each of those 3 station calls costs about 15 minutes.
 

alistairlees

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Ah yes thanks for the clarification though that brings me back to my original point - roughly speaking (in normal circumstances) each of those 3 station calls costs about 15 minutes.
It’s the single track line with passing places that normally costs time, not the station stops. The sleeper can now leave Perth or Stirling earlier if no one is alighting, and potentially make an earlier path going north. There’s no southbound 07.55 Inverness to kings cross at the moment either; the sleeper normally has to wait at Culloden for this.
 

PG

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It’s the single track line with passing places that normally costs time, not the station stops. The sleeper can now leave Perth or Stirling earlier if no one is alighting, and potentially make an earlier path going north. There’s no southbound 07.55 Inverness to kings cross at the moment either; the sleeper normally has to wait at Culloden for this.
Thank you for explaining that, it makes sense. I hadn't taken pathing into consideration. :oops:
 

BRX

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Although I imagine that in practice hardly anyone is getting off at intermediate stops right now, it would be a little annoying to have your already short sleep shortened by a further 50 minutes...
 

Oscar46016

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so in terms of traction on a "normal" timetable we'd have 2 x 92s heading north each night and 2 x 92s heading south ( one for each sleeper service ). At Edinburgh the 3 x 72/9s bring in the portions each night and the following morning take them back.

For the Edinburgh / Glasgow splitter - what happens with that?
 

cakefiend

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For the Edinburgh / Glasgow splitter - what happens with that?
Normally it divides/joins at Carstairs, with 92s hauling their respective portions.

At the moment, the Glasgow Central portion runs to Edinburgh and attaches to the train from Inverness. This then runs as one train to Euston, and vice versa.
 

Oscar46016

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Normally it divides/joins at Carstairs, with 92s hauling their respective portions.

At the moment, the Glasgow Central portion runs to Edinburgh and attaches to the train from Inverness. This then runs as one train to Euston, and vice versa.

So in normal operations there are 3 x 73/9s and 3 x 92s in operation?
 

ScottDarg

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So in normal operations there are 3 x 73/9s and 3 x 92s in operation?

If you exclude the locos used for empty stock moves then yes - 3 92s a night. Would be 5 if you include the empty stock locos that only haul the trains between the depot and station (one for Glasgow and one for London)

4 73/9s would normally be used each night - the Inverness train uses 2.
 

Oscar46016

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If you exclude the locos used for empty stock moves then yes - 3 92s a night. Would be 5 if you include the empty stock locos that only haul the trains between the depot and station (one for Glasgow and one for London)

4 73/9s would normally be used each night - the Inverness train uses 2.

Thanks - makes perfect sense.
 

JohnMcL7

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If you exclude the locos used for empty stock moves then yes - 3 92s a night. Would be 5 if you include the empty stock locos that only haul the trains between the depot and station (one for Glasgow and one for London)

4 73/9s would normally be used each night - the Inverness train uses 2.

I'm perhaps misunderstanding how the Lowlander works but I thought it was four 92's, two for the Lowlander leaving south from Glasgow and Edinburgh then two north from London, one for the Lowlander and one for the Highlander.
 

Oscar46016

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I'm perhaps misunderstanding how the Lowlander works but I thought it was four 92's, two for the Lowlander leaving south from Glasgow and Edinburgh then two north from London, one for the Lowlander and one for the Highlander.

You are right sorry - 2 leave London each night and (one highlander one Lowlander )
Another 92 is used on a portion of the Lowlander to Glasgow / Edinburgh - I presume this one is one of the two that departed Glasgow / Edinburgh the night before - so that's 3. Another 92 works the Highlander towards London.
 

CW2

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By my reckoning, factoring in the ECS moves, the 92s needed are:
1) 1S25 northbound Highland sleeper
2) 1S26 northbound Lowland sleeper
3) 5S25 and 5S26 ECS loco at Wembley
4) 1M11 southbound Lowland sleeper
5) 1C11 / 1B11 Edinburgh portion (and ECS from / to Polmadie)
6) 5M11 ECS loco at Polmadie (stock for 1M11 ex Glasgow Central)
7) 1M16 southbound Highland sleeper

It's possible that the 5M11 ECS loco isn't needed if they run round the stock and propel into Glasgow Central, but I've not been there to witness it. So either 6 or 7 class 92s needed per night. There's scope for substitution by 73/9s on the EC moves in Scotland.
 

MrEd

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It’s the single track line with passing places that normally costs time, not the station stops. The sleeper can now leave Perth or Stirling earlier if no one is alighting, and potentially make an earlier path going north. There’s no southbound 07.55 Inverness to kings cross at the moment either; the sleeper normally has to wait at Culloden for this.

If it’s on time, the northbound sleeper (1S25) should pass the southbound Highland Chieftain (1E13) at Tomatin (sleeper booked to wait in loop approx. 08:10-08:16), but Slochd can often be used if the sleeper is just a few minutes behind time (this does not massively delay the sleeper or the Chieftain). Of course, if the sleeper is more than a few minutes late, it will be held at Carrbridge or Aviemore to avoid delaying the Chieftain, which can cause delays.
 

ScottDarg

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I'm perhaps misunderstanding how the Lowlander works but I thought it was four 92's, two for the Lowlander leaving south from Glasgow and Edinburgh then two north from London, one for the Lowlander and one for the Highlander.

Nope - you're correct. Forgot about the Northbounds needing locos too!:oops:

@CW2 has summarised the 92 usage pretty well.

However, I would add that I've never seen the Glasgow 5M11 without it's own ECS loco and have only known it to propel once when 47749 went through a spell of having power issues and couldn't pull the train up the incline at Eglinton St. The 92 was used to push it and the train up and into the station.
 
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vlad

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There’s no southbound 07.55 Inverness to kings cross at the moment either; the sleeper normally has to wait at Culloden for this.

The one time I've done the Inverness sleeper the Highland Chieftain didn't run - I was quite shocked to arrive at Inverness over 10 minutes early!
 

JonathanH

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By my reckoning, factoring in the ECS moves, the 92s needed are:
1) 1S25 northbound Highland sleeper
2) 1S26 northbound Lowland sleeper
3) 5S25 and 5S26 ECS loco at Wembley
4) 1M11 southbound Lowland sleeper
5) 1C11 / 1B11 Edinburgh portion (and ECS from / to Polmadie)
6) 5M11 ECS loco at Polmadie (stock for 1M11 ex Glasgow Central)
7) 1M16 southbound Highland sleeper

It's possible that the 5M11 ECS loco isn't needed if they run round the stock and propel into Glasgow Central, but I've not been there to witness it. So either 6 or 7 class 92s needed per night. There's scope for substitution by 73/9s on the EC moves in Scotland.

The ECS for 1S25 at Euston (which is 5S95, not 5S25) uses the engine which later works 1S26 north. Obviously a 92 is still needed for 5S96, the 1S26 empties.

In a real shortage, 1C11 / 1B26 can be worked using the engines for 1M16 and 1S25 running empty from Edinburgh.

I don't think the track layout at Glasgow allows 1M11 to be run round / propelled although again that ECS can use the 1M16 / 1S25 engine running over from Edinburgh if they are short.
 

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