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Yellow Hand Signal?
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DeparturesBeck
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Never accept a yellow handsignal without first being told about the circumstances.
See module S5 section 3.2
See module S5 section 3.2
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Llanigraham
On Moderation
I can only answer for my old Box, but we had no yellow flags, and all instructions were made over the phone, so they were recorded.
Thanks
LOM
Member
It used to be the case that a yellow handsignal displayed from a signalbox gave authority to pass a signal at danger and proceed as far as the box without any further communication. That went out of the rule book more than 10 years ago though.
Used to hang out of the window with the flag or lamp, the driver would give a toot to acknowledge and away he went.
Used to hang out of the window with the flag or lamp, the driver would give a toot to acknowledge and away he went.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
Another one that has disappeared from the rule book was the waving of a yellow flag (with detonator) for warning of an emergency speed restriction. Then a steady yellow at its commencement.
headshot119
Established Member
I wonder how you ever managed to put SLW in then...?
Llanigraham
On Moderation
I can assure you that we had no yellow flags in our Box, and only used the red or green for any move that was not signalled.
And since we also oversaw a level crossing we also never closed if the line was open.
And since we also oversaw a level crossing we also never closed if the line was open.
If attached to a LC, then a green would be shown, no?
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Red whilst the crossing was open to the road.
Green when all barriers down and locked.
Green when all barriers down and locked.
No, a yellow handsignal. You'd only get a green handsignal if it was a crossing under local control or a manned crossing (i.e. not a block post).
Funnily enough, this came up in conversation today. A driver was recently stopped at a signal with no phone during a GSM-R network failure. Out of the box window appeared a yellow flag...
Llanigraham
On Moderation
The instructions for my Box were that we only used red and green flags, and since the crossing that we controlled was right outside the window, it was therefore under local control.
And yes the Box is also a block post.
By “local control”, I meant a crossing under the control of a level crossing attendant. The Rule Book’s quite clear about the requirement for a yellow handsignal when passing an open signal box in the wrong direction under SLW and that’s what drivers would expect to receive!
headshot119
Established Member
Nor can I find any exception in the Sectional Appendix for boxes on the Marches to not display a Yellow flag when they're an intermediate box during SLW.
Ta, I’d not got around to checking that - you would of course expect to find it in there if there was any such instruction. I have to say that I find this situation rather worrying!
matchmaker
Established Member
I seem to recall that in the early 1970s a lot of Bardic lamps had the yellow shade "locked out" and could only display red, green and white. They had a different knob - an thin metal one rather than the four sided plastic one.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
Inside there is a metal washer with a lug on below the switch. Remove that and it will turn through the yellow. If your lamp has the elongated knob you'll need a replacement knob.
High Dyke
Established Member
Many years ago I got into an argument with my manager, at the time. He was passing out a new crossing keeper at a box. The box was merely a crossing box, and although it had protecting signals for its level crossing it was not a block post. The question to the trainee was "what colour hand signal do you show the driver when the signal is being passed at danger?" Trainee replied "green". Manager disagreed. I also confirmed it was a green. Manager states we are both wrong and storms off to his van for his rule books. During his absence I confirmed that the trainee had given the correct answer. Manager returns, full of bluster, and states "I'll prove you're both wrong." He finds the relevant section in the rule book and, when challenged that we have both given 'green' as the correct answer, merely dismisses both of us with "next question!", but no explanation. The correct answer in this location was 'green' as the crossing keeper is merely flagging for the level crossing and not authorising the train to pass the signal at danger. That was done by the controlling signal box next door.
We have one location where a green handsignal (from a crossing box) conveys authority to pass the protecting (non block) signal. They’re inexplicably reluctant to actually do it though and prefer to get the box next door to give a verbal instruction on their behalf!
High Dyke
Established Member
There's another oddity on the ECML at Claypole. Trains travelling over the single line in the wrong direction are advised they will receive a 'Yellow' hand signal and then a 'Green' hand signal. The hand-signaller is deployed to control the movement back to the correct line, but the train passes over a level crossing before the cross-over. Therefore the crossing keeper shows the 'green'. You can imagine some drivers trying to get their head around that information.
CC 72100
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As odd as it sounds on face value, breaking that down into normal situations you get a yellow handsignal v. normal situations in which you get a green signal that does make sense. Just got to break it down and think through logically
An interesting situation, but it makes sense. It wouldn’t normally be the case at a typical signal box with a crossover (or indeed at an intermediate box with a level crossing) so presumably the complicating factor is that the crossover etc. is the signalman’s whereas the level crossing is the crossing keeper’s?
High Dyke
Established Member
Yep, that's correct.
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