• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Longest ECS movements?

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Atomix330

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2020
Messages
33
Location
London
Having just seen paths for an empty coaching stock move for an IET from Westbury all the way back to North Pole IEP Depot near London got me thinking - what are the longest ECS moves on the schedule?

I'm defining an ECS move as moving from a service to depot rather than a move between depots.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

A

Amlag

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2018
Messages
228
There is an 0454 Stoke Gifford IET depot to Herefod arr 0633 on weekdays to form a train to Padd.
 
3

37057

Member
Joined
3 Jul 2009
Messages
422
Nottingham to Liverpool. I think it goes round the houses to maintain route competency too.
 
Last edited:
50039

50039

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2015
Messages
489
Location
Bedfordshire
P

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
I know it might be a short cut but one should find plenty to browse through in this old and locked thread.

Longest ECS movements.

Inspired by the "how does XC work?" thread, I am curious to see what the longest regularly scheduled ECS movements are. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of 100+ mile runs which happen every day. I know there is an 04:00 (ish) from Nottingham to Liverpool, which then forms the first...
www.railforums.co.uk
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,294
Back when Cross-Country used to hire in GNER HST sets on Summer Saturdays, they started service on the Saturday morning at either Plymouth or Bristol TM, depending if they were working a Newquay or Paignton service (it varied in different years). There was, therefore, a long distance ECS move from Neville Hill to Plymouth to resource it when they ran to Newquay.
 
T

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,086
FGW_DID said:
Night Riveria ECS on a Sat morning = London Paddington - Penzance.
Click to expand...
There were some very lengthy runs in former times as well. The overnight newspaper trains all worked back empty stock to base in the day.

And the one described is reminiscent of the old Western Region restaurant car special ECS, which ran from Old Oak Common to Penzance on summer Fridays, to add them all individually to the holiday trains starting from there on Saturdays. It took all the crews with it.
 
P

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
I can't recall or turn up the full details but a few years ago when Scotland v Wales match was played a Murrayfield, a Charter ran from Carmarthen to Edinburgh on the Wednesday before and came all the way back to work another the following day.
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,294
Wilts Wanderer

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,488
In the past there was a Laira to Neville Hill ECS move diagrammed for a Virgin HST. On selected Wednesday nights it was diverted to Lympstone Commando (via reversal at Exmouth for signalling / change ends purposes) to work the infamous unadvertised Lympstone-Manchester army special and then ECS to Leeds via Diggle.
 
E

Eloise

Member
Joined
14 Jan 2020
Messages
208
Location
Moving...
There's been a trend of late of operators turning empties into passenger services where the crew stayed on the train anyway. LNER Hull - Doncaster in an evening being one example.
 
P

Peter0124

Established Member
Joined
20 Nov 2016
Messages
1,961
Location
Glasgow
Yeah, this is definitely the longest ECS move so far, surely:

Realtime Trains - 5V44 0926 London Euston to Polmadie Car M.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It formed off 1R11 from Liverpool Lime Street and went to Polmadie to balance the stock

Edit: Although it was STP, still probably among the longest for an ECS
 
Last edited:
C

clagmonster

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,442
43096 said:
Back when Cross-Country used to hire in GNER HST sets on Summer Saturdays, they started service on the Saturday morning at either Plymouth or Bristol TM, depending if they were working a Newquay or Paignton service (it varied in different years). There was, therefore, a long distance ECS move from Neville Hill to Plymouth to resource it when they ran to Newquay.
Click to expand...
That was previously an overnight service train from Leeds to the West Country. Never really understood why they made it ecs - there always tended to be a few on it.
 
M

Mitchell Hurd

On Moderation
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
1,647
It was quite a while ago when 1V50 (06:06 from Edinburgh to Plymouth) was reported to have terminated at Berwick-upon-Tweed or Newcastle due to a fault on this train according to XC's JourneyCheck.

On the CrossCountry HST diagrams thread it was said to have run ECS all the way to Plymouth. That has to have therefore been the longest ECS working I guess?
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,294
clagmonster said:
That was previously an overnight service train from Leeds to the West Country. Never really understood why they made it ecs - there always tended to be a few on it.
Click to expand...
Presumably because you need guards for it, who then are not available for the Saturday peak.
 
B

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,070
37057 said:
Nottingham to Liverpool. I think it goes round the houses to maintain route competency too.
Click to expand...
Not always, the standard route is via Alfreton, Dore Curve, Romiley and Newton Le Willows. It can also be diverted via Derby, Beighton, Stockport and Warrington! The worst being going via Derby and Beighton, as that usually means an 0300ish book on for the crews.
 
C

CW2

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2020
Messages
1,922
Location
Crewe
PHILIPE said:
I can't recall or turn up the full details but a few years ago when Scotland v Wales match was played a Murrayfield, a Charter ran from Carmarthen to Edinburgh on the Wednesday before and came all the way back to work another the following day.
Click to expand...
In the 1980s whenever Wales were playing in Scotland there would be 4 or 5 trains run bringing Wales supporters to Edinburgh for a long weekend. Services would return Sunday and Monday from Edinburgh, and indeed there were some long-distance ECS moves to make best use of the stock.
The southbound (loaded) Sunday am services had to be diesel hauled, and depending on the precise period they may have run over the S&C as well. On one occasion a pair of 26s worked right through to Farington Jn over Beattock and S&C on one of these return RUGGEXes. Apologies for straying mildly off-thread!
 
SteveyBee131

SteveyBee131

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
651
Location
Grimsby Town
In my local area, there are 3 regularly scheduled ECS moves, though they aren't as long as some already mentioned. The most regular is Lincoln to Cleethorpes, weekday mornings to bring the Sprinter for the morning Cleethorpes to Lincoln/Newark, it's also the shortest at just over 47 miles.

The next is to bring a fresh unit for the Cleethorpes-Barton line. This usually runs twice a week, depending on maintenance needs, Sheffield to Cleethorpes and depending on the route taken could be up to 72¼ miles.

Once a week, on a Saturday evening, a TPE 185 travels ECS from Cleethorpes to Crofton via Doncaster, which is roughly 65 miles.

Again, they're not as impressive distances as some moves already posted, but over 70 miles ECS still seems pretty crazy! Once upon a time, there were unusual in service workings at either end of the day to get trains in the right place. And of course, once upon a time many moons ago, there were more suitably placed depots, and ECS moves were minimal!
 
30907

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,040
Location
Airedale
SteveyBee131 said:
And of course, once upon a time many moons ago, there were more suitably placed depots, and ECS moves were minimal!
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Random examples I've come across:
London to Ramsgate and vv around 1970 (the down train was used as a seaside excursion from the suburbs in the summer holidays!).
Padstow to Yeoford - a light engine on Summer Saturdays around 1960, which then worked ECS to Exeter (coaches having been left there earlier in the day by an engine that ran light to Exmouth Jn shed). Then on Sundays an engine ran light Honiton to Bude. Bear in mind that there were sheds at Wadebridge, Launceston and Okehampton which could have been used!
 
C

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Remember fragmentation will be somewhat responsible for this.
I doubt the 04xx Nottingham to Liverpool ECS would ever run in a unified railway - it would be covered out of Liverpool (Edge Hill or Allerton) along with crew from there.

There ones mentioned operating in the Cleethorpes area would probably all be based there rather than coming from Lincoln, Scunthorpe and Sheffield.
 
HamworthyGoods

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,938
Class 170101 said:
Remember fragmentation will be somewhat responsible for this.
I doubt the 04xx Nottingham to Liverpool ECS would ever run in a unified railway - it would be covered out of Liverpool (Edge Hill or Allerton) along with crew from there.

There ones mentioned operating in the Cleethorpes area would probably all be based there rather than coming from Lincoln, Scunthorpe and Sheffield.
Click to expand...

The Nottingham to Liverpool ECS were bought in by BR under sectorisation where they wished to stop buying in crew from a different department all was viewed as part of a push to make Regional Railways more efficient
 
C

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
HamworthyGoods said:
The Nottingham to Liverpool ECS were bought in by BR under sectorisation where they wished to stop buying in crew from a different department all was viewed as part of a push to make Regional Railways more efficient
Click to expand...

More efficient - really? Sorry but that just seems crackers.
 
T

Tomnick

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2005
Messages
5,840
Class 170101 said:
More efficient - really? Sorry but that just seems crackers.
Click to expand...
Even if you resource a route from both ends, there’s usually a significant mileage of traincrew travelling pass during the day either to balance things out or just to make efficient diagrams. The current Nottingham - Liverpool service involves no ‘pass’ or otherwise unproductive moves other than on the morning empties (which also serves as a very effective route knowledge refresher over usually at least two and anything up to four lengthy diversionary routes) and a couple of bits between Nottingham and Sheffield. I’m pretty sure that the Skegness service, resourced from (nearly) both ends, is actually less efficient in that respect!

Two of the examples quoted earlier, Crofton and Sheffield to Cleethorpes, are entirely down to fleet requirements, getting units out to a relatively remote outpost, and absolutely nothing to do with traincrew depots.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top