DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

seaviewer · 3 Jul 2020

I have just been trying (without much success) to find out what happens from 6 July. It sounds as though the full timetable proposed for 18 May MIGHT be restored – but I wouldn't bank on it.
I needed to find a local timetable for south London, so went to the NRT list of tables, to find a rather interesting entry:
T175-F London Victoria, Clapham Junction, Stratford-upon-avon Parkway, St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge, Norwood Junction, East Croydon
Rather a roundabout route? But fun!

RailUK Forums

Bishopstone · 3 Jul 2020

I’m feeling smug that, way back in February, I booked my fortnight staycation from w/c 13 July. There could be a full-ish timetable; official licence to travel, but with the trains still quiet as many remain scared.

The downsides are compulsory masks (which I’ll adhere to) and reduced catering options, on and off the train.

I’m Southern based, but I hope northern-based members see a much better service, soon.

Howardh · 3 Jul 2020

Bishopstone said:
I’m feeling smug that, way back in February, I booked my fortnight staycation from w/c 13 July. There could be a full-ish timetable; official licence to travel, but with the trains still quiet as many remain scared.

The downsides are compulsory masks (which I’ll adhere to) and reduced catering options, on and off the train.

I’m Southern based, but I hope northern-based members see a much better service, soon.

Think you will have a pretty good idea of what rail travel and staycations will be like. However those of us scheduled to fly to an overseas resort will probably be more apprehensive. I have a holiday in Spain booked for September, which means I can sit back and watch how the first set of flights and tourists get on; what will the airports and aircraft be like? Will there be a spike in transmission? Time to find out and cancel if it's bad.

bramling · 3 Jul 2020

Howardh said:
Think you will have a pretty good idea of what rail travel and staycations will be like. However those of us scheduled to fly to an overseas resort will probably be more apprehensive. I have a holiday in Spain booked for September, which means I can sit back and watch how the first set of flights and tourists get on; what will the airports and aircraft be like? Will there be a spike in transmission? Time to find out and cancel if it's bad.

Must admit I’ve taken the decision to cancel my U.K. holiday planned for the next two weeks, on the basis that everything is still that little bit too much up in the air, especially with it still being de-facto school holidays now right through to September. We’re going to blitz it in September instead.

On the subject of timetables, Great Northern seem to be reintroducing elements of the weekday service, but still using Saturday as a base. This means some more 365 activity at last!

Howardh · 3 Jul 2020

bramling said:
Must admit I’ve taken the decision to cancel my U.K. holiday planned for the next two weeks, on the basis that everything is still that little bit too much up in the air, especially with it still being de-facto school holidays now right through to September. We’re going to blitz it in September instead.

On the subject of timetables, Great Northern seem to be reintroducing elements of the weekday service, but still using Saturday as a base. This means some more 365 activity at last!

Not having kids and having flexible holidays, those were always my plans when working - June and early July, then September and early October. Cheaper, fewer kids around, quieter, weather (abroad) usually splendid, and a happy boss as I wasn't asking for time off when everyone else was!! That has obviously carried in into retirement, just sad that this late spring has been abandoned.

yorksrob · 3 Jul 2020

Peter Mugridge said:
Fresh tweet from Network Rail within the last hour; note the use of the word "everyone"... @yorkie - this looks like a welcome shift in the messaging this morning?

Edited to add: Rail Delivery Group has tweeted virtually the same message.

View attachment 80303

That's certainly good news.

I have some pure leisure trips that I would like to make in the near future.

Incidentally, I took my first bus journey today and the buses seemed to be doing a roaring trade, so there's no reason why the trains shouldn't.

PHILIPE · 3 Jul 2020

TFW have increased peak time journeys from July 6th but still stress travel is for Essential Journeys ONLY

Anonymous10 · 3 Jul 2020

Bishopstone said:
I’d settle for a Saturday service, M-F, at least until September, and think this would be more robust than trying to run a full peak timetable from July.

What's a Saturday service in West Wales it's same service Monday to Saturday one train every two hours in each direction

Howardh · 3 Jul 2020

PHILIPE said:
TFW have increased peak time journeys from July 6th but still stress travel is for Essential Journeys ONLY

If you click on National Rail Enquiries (as in national, not England) you get this; which appears to be at odds with TFW.

IF TRAVELLING BY TRAIN, BRING A FACE COVERING TO WEAR

Click to expand...

Only travel by train if you can't use an alternative like cycling or walking.

Train services are still operating at a reduced capacity so we need to ask you to use an alternative if you can.

If you do need to travel by train, please follow the recommended guidance before you set off:

Plan ahead and consider travelling during less busy times of the day.

Consider other passengers and rail staff and wear a face covering while using our services.**

Stay safe by following social distancing guidance at stations, platforms and trains wherever possible.

Do not travel if either you and or anyone in your household are showing symptoms of Covid-19.

** A list of customers exempted from wearing a face covering is available on the GOV.uk website

Nothing about "essential journeys only" meaning if I want to go to the pub but can't drive or cycle I can use the train.
Think this country needs some joined-up thinking here.

AdamWW · 3 Jul 2020

Howardh said:
If you click on National Rail Enquiries (as in national, not England) you get this; which appears to be at odds with TFW.

Nothing about "essential journeys only" meaning if I want to go to the pub but can't drive or cycle I can use the train.
Think this country needs some joined-up thinking here.

And indeed if you look at the Welsh Government Coronavirus reguations FAQ they say very clearly:
"Can I use public transport?
Yes. There are, however, fewer train services and many buses have reduced capacity to ensure people can maintain social distancing practices. We recommend that you should wear a face covering on public transport."

I did query this with TFW Rail, given that they even emailed me recently to remind me I am still not welcome on their near-empty services unless it's essential that I travel.

Their answer seemed to be essentially:
1) This is imposed by the Welsh government and is line with the rest of the UK (I don't think either is true)
2) The fact that "too many" people tried to go to Barry Island on a sunny day justifies continuing a blanket ban on all non-essential travel (subjective, but I don't agree, though it's the easiest apprpoach I'm sure).
3) If infection rates continue to drop they will consider changing their policy (the corollory being of course that if they don't, the restrictions will stay indefinitely)

Now I understand that the government announcing that public transport is now open to all doesn't mean it's going to work, and it can't be much fun at the moment managing a transport company. But I think something more nuanced than a total ban must be possible, and also that as you say some joined-up thinking is necessary. Giving different messages is not helpful.

Huntergreed · 3 Jul 2020

Does anyone know when the Avanti 9X's are going to be allowed up to Scotland again?

Howardh · 3 Jul 2020

AdamWW said:
And indeed if you look at the Welsh Government Coronavirus reguations FAQ they say very clearly:
"Can I use public transport?
Yes. There are, however, fewer train services and many buses have reduced capacity to ensure people can maintain social distancing practices. We recommend that you should wear a face covering on public transport."

I did query this with TFW Rail, given that they even emailed me recently to remind me I am still not welcome on their near-empty services unless it's essential that I travel.

Their answer seemed to be essentially:
1) This is imposed by the Welsh government and is line with the rest of the UK (I don't think either is true)
2) The fact that "too many" people tried to go to Barry Island on a sunny day justifies continuing a blanket ban on all non-essential travel (subjective, but I don't agree, though it's the easiest apprpoach I'm sure).
3) If infection rates continue to drop they will consider changing their policy (the corollory being of course that if they don't, the restrictions will stay indefinitely)

Now I understand that the government announcing that public transport is now open to all doesn't mean it's going to work, and it can't be much fun at the moment managing a transport company. But I think something more nuanced than a total ban must be possible, and also that as you say some joined-up thinking is necessary. Giving different messages is not helpful.

You could, tomorrow, have the situation where thousands "legally" go into Manchester for a night out and turn up for their last train home, which most lines is earlier than pre-covid, so trains are either gonna be packed (clearly not good) or you don't run the trains full leaving many pax behind - so who would be responsible for them?

TOC's need to get their timetables back to (as near as) normal sharpish, with covid isn't it better to run more trains half-empty than fewer but packed? If there's a difficulty with staff rotas, engineering which was planned pre-lockdown lifting and stock not being available, then bustitutions could be used temporarily.

The public have all made sacrifices, now it's time for the government and TOC's to help the public (and businesses) back on their feet!!

Skymonster · 3 Jul 2020

Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport

Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are r

www.thetimes.co.uk

Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport
Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.

Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are running empty.

The Times has learnt that the government will monitor use of public transport over the weekend and early next week before possibly abandoning the approach it has maintained since March. Over the past three months commuters have been told to use other forms of transport with buses and trains only used for essential journeys.

Butts · 3 Jul 2020

LNER opening 1st Class Lounges and Waiting Rooms from July 6th - had an e-mail today.

OliverH68 · 3 Jul 2020

Butts said:
LNER opening 1st Class Lounges and Waiting Rooms from July 6th - had an e-mail today.

Hopefully a sign that the onboard catering offering will be returning soon!

YorksDMU · 3 Jul 2020

Unfortunately the messaging against non essential journeys continues from Northern. I’ve just seen a tweet, saying that day trips are not essential with a red cross against them. I just hope this changes tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1279044737278803969?s=21

Our trains are for ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY.
Day trips are not essential ❌

Help us keep the trains for those who need them.

317 forever · 3 Jul 2020

Although TPE times are only confirmed in the timetables up to next Friday, there are Advance fares further ahead. These are even available for Liverpool - Edinburgh, with fares indicating a broadly hourly through service restored from next Saturday.

PHILIPE · 3 Jul 2020

AdamWW said:
And indeed if you look at the Welsh Government Coronavirus reguations FAQ they say very clearly:
"Can I use public transport?
Yes. There are, however, fewer train services and many buses have reduced capacity to ensure people can maintain social distancing practices. We recommend that you should wear a face covering on public transport."

I did query this with TFW Rail, given that they even emailed me recently to remind me I am still not welcome on their near-empty services unless it's essential that I travel.

Their answer seemed to be essentially:
1) This is imposed by the Welsh government and is line with the rest of the UK (I don't think either is true)
2) The fact that "too many" people tried to go to Barry Island on a sunny day justifies continuing a blanket ban on all non-essential travel (subjective, but I don't agree, though it's the easiest apprpoach I'm sure).
3) If infection rates continue to drop they will consider changing their policy (the corollory being of course that if they don't, the restrictions will stay indefinitely)

Now I understand that the government announcing that public transport is now open to all doesn't mean it's going to work, and it can't be much fun at the moment managing a transport company. But I think something more nuanced than a total ban must be possible, and also that as you say some joined-up thinking is necessary. Giving different messages is not helpful.

TFW have said in a Tweet that the essential travel clause is to ensure that essential workers can be sure of getting a place due to the reduced capacity issue as a result of social distancing.

route101 · 3 Jul 2020

317 forever said:
Although TPE times are only confirmed in the timetables up to next Friday, there are Advance fares further ahead. These are even available for Liverpool - Edinburgh, with fares indicating a broadly hourly through service restored from next Saturday.

I noticed TPE had advances. Are there services reservation only?

317 forever · 3 Jul 2020

route101 said:
I noticed TPE had advances. Are there services reservation only?

I admit I haven't booked one yet. At the risk of digressing, I am monitoring how suitable it is to have a short break in Scotland soon, allowing for actual or customary restrictions to public transport use.

Howardh · 3 Jul 2020

YorksDMU said:
Unfortunately the messaging against non essential journeys continues from Northern. I’ve just seen a tweet, saying that day trips are not essential with a red cross against them. I just hope this changes tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1279044737278803969?s=21

https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1279048560806375424

Northern
#EssentialTravelOnly
N
@northernassist

Replying to
@IamPacer142
Hi, we are advising to only travel if essential to do so in order to keep the trains for those that need them. ^IB
2:45 pm · 3 Jul 2020·

My embolden.
So it's "advice" and not a (legal) requirement; advice which will have to be ignored if people want use their new freedom to enjoy hospitality and travel, so it's just bonkers Northern keeping it there.

365 Networker · 3 Jul 2020

bramling said:
On the subject of timetables, Great Northern seem to be reintroducing elements of the weekday service, but still using Saturday as a base. This means some more 365 activity at last!

I assume this is just the semi fast services, and not any of the stoppers?

bramling · 3 Jul 2020

365 Networker said:
I assume this is just the semi fast services, and not any of the stoppers?

It’s some (but not all) of what would be the peak-hour fast Baldock and Peterborough services. I haven’t looked at the inners TBH, but presumably it’s all in RTTT if anyone wants to look.

There’s certainly been some 365 positioning movements over the last week or two, and one pair failed near Hitchin for a while a week or so ago whilst on such a move (trains don’t like sitting still for long periods like the 365s have largely done since March).

lyndhurst25 · 3 Jul 2020

Peter Mugridge said:
Fresh tweet from Network Rail within the last hour; note the use of the word "everyone"... @yorkie - this looks like a welcome shift in the messaging this morning?

Edited to add: Rail Delivery Group has tweeted virtually the same message.

View attachment 80303

Helping with hygiene - Making it easier to mash your hands.

The last two Northern units, both class 150s, that I used the toilets on, had water in the sink taps but the automatic soap dispensers and hand driers were broken. Good job I had a bottle of hand sanitizer on me.

scotrail158713 · 3 Jul 2020

Skymonster said:
Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport

Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are r

www.thetimes.co.uk

That’s certainly a positive move

yorkie · 3 Jul 2020

Howardh said:
If you click on National Rail Enquiries (as in national, not England) you get this; which appears to be at odds with TFW.

Nothing about "essential journeys only" meaning if I want to go to the pub but can't drive or cycle I can use the train.
Think this country needs some joined-up thinking here.

Howardh said:
https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1279048560806375424

My embolden.
So it's "advice" and not a (legal) requirement; advice which will have to be ignored if people want use their new freedom to enjoy hospitality and travel, so it's just bonkers Northern keeping it there.

This thread is about the timetable changes.

There are other threads in which this question has cropped up.

To be clear, there are no restrictions on the use of public transport and the current Government advice can be found here:

People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.

www.gov.uk

You can help control coronavirus and travel safely by:

....

considering all other forms of transport, such as cycling and walking, before using public transport

....

Relevant threads include:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...rs-reason-for-travelling.205817/#post-4639786
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-by-boris-johnson.205754/page-4#post-4637716
and various previous threads, some of which are now locked, including:

There is plenty of reading material there!

Let's stick to the timetable changes in this thread please, thanks

Tezza1978 · 3 Jul 2020

For the first time today I was able to view (and book!) advances rather than just off peak returns for the Warrington Bank Quay to Euston journey

-visible on both Avanti and the trainline business site I use for business trips.....heading down to London /Surrey on Monday 6th and back Wednesday 8th on the 20.30 departure for work reasons.

Still no 1st class catering yet and the Euston lounge isnt open, so no point me doing the return leg using a cheap 1st class advance with a split at Stafford....but things do seem to be ramping up a bit thankfully, hopefully the no leisure/no essential journey stuff from TOCs will be dropped imminently as its simply ridiculous now.....

infobleep · 4 Jul 2020

Does anyone know why Great Western Railway are not running trains to Gatwick Airport from Sunday or Monday and passengers have to change additionally at Redhill still? They are running the trains but terminating them short at Redhill. A fast service usually takes 41 minutes but now it's around an hour. In fact going via Clapham Junction isn't much slower.

Actually I see after the morning peak only stopping trains are running and no fast services. Perhaps they aren't expecting lots of passengers or they are one of the companies struggling with staff off sick.

However of the fast ones aunning in the morning peak not one of them is going to Gatwick Airport. For example their is a 10:08 arrival from Reading into Redhill. It then sits on platform 0 until 10:44 when it departs back to Reading. In that time it could easily head down to Gatwick Airport and back. Have staff lost their route knowledge of the line to Gatwick Airport? If not won't they soon do so, if no trains run to Gatwick Airport?

Needless to say the 10:08 arrives just after a train to Gatwick Airport has departed and one has to wait until 10:25. It's only 17 ninuites but the 10:25 is a stopping train so not exactly fast. Some but not all of the slower stopping services and connections are faster in terms of overall time!

Not everyone going to Gatwick Airport wants to catch a flight. It is actually a useful place to change for trains towards the south coast. I'd have thought less train changes is better at the moment or does that not matter?

Of course in the coming weeks people will be able to get flights aboard but if the timetable doesn't change, they will need to change platforms at Redhill with luggage.

JonathanH · 4 Jul 2020

infobleep said:
Does anyone know why Great Western Railway are not running trains to Gatwick Airport from Sunday or Monday and passengers have to change additionally at Redhill still? They are running the trains but terminating them short at Redhill. A fast service usually takes 41 minutes but now it's around an hour. In fact going via Clapham Junction isn't much slower.

Actually I see after the morning peak only stopping trains are running and no fast services. Perhaps they aren't expecting lots of passengers or they are one of the companies struggling with staff off sick.

However of the fast ones aunning in the morning peak not one of them is going to Gatwick Airport. For example their is a 10:08 arrival from Reading into Redhill. It then sits on platform 0 until 10:44 when it departs back to Reading. In that time it could easily head down to Gatwick Airport and back. Have staff lost their route knowledge of the line to Gatwick Airport? If not won't they soon do so, if no trains run to Gatwick Airport?

Needless to say the 10:08 arrives just after a train to Gatwick Airport has departed and one has to wait until 10:25. It's only 17 ninuites but the 10:25 is a stopping train so not exactly fast. Some but not all of the slower stopping services and connections are faster in terms of overall time!

Not everyone going to Gatwick Airport wants to catch a flight. It is actually a useful place to change for trains towards the south coast. I'd have thought less train changes is better at the moment or does that not matter?

Of course in the coming weeks people will be able to get flights aboard but if the timetable doesn't change, they will need to change platforms at Redhill with luggage.

Presumably this is a combination of low demand, the need to provide a guard, the issue with the reversal at Redhill and the use of Turbos between Reading and Bedwyn.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-165-166-turbo-diagrams.157030/page-24#post-4651615

Class 33 · 4 Jul 2020

I see Northern Rail are STILL at it with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" messaging. Even though a lot of the non-essential shops have been open for a few weeks. Pubs, restaurants, hotels, museums/tourist attractions re-opening today. We're allowed to go on leisure trips and holidays now. And yet Northern Rail are still keeping up with their "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY" claptrap. Unbelievable. But I told you it would probably happen!

DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

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