43096
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Doing so without agreement would almost certainly be breach of contract. Not a good place to go if you have other stock on lease from the same company.
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LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment
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HamworthyGoods
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Indeed and it’s better to negotiate but defaulting on some contracts can and do occur where a satisfactory agreement cannot be reached between both parties, leasing companies aren’t known for necessarily sticking totally to their side of the agreement either!
It’s a funny old world the rolling stock leasing agreements and certainly keeps us in the industry busy!
With regard to these two particular 91s it will very much depend on what future uses the two 91s in question have in the leasing companies view and any plans for the remainder of the currently ‘spare’ ones.
I believe 110 (and 131) are 'designated' railway heritage items, that means if Eversholt want to dispose of them they should offer both locos to the NRM and other preservation outfits and only sell them for scrap if no heritage outfit wants them. They will not necessarily go to the NRM. I am not clear whether Europhenix exporting and converting them to frieght locos counts as disposal though in order to trigger the heritage designation.
Thanks for explaining this. I also wasn't sure whether 131 was still on that list, which is why I didn't mention it. Both equally deserve their place in preservation in my opinion.
43096
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It's more than that: there is no "should" about it. Under the terms of the relevant legislation (Railway Heritage Act 1996, plus amendments) Eversholt (as one of bodies to whom the Act applies) must give notice to the Board of Trustees (of the Science Museum Group) on the proposed disposal and the Board of Trustees must give its consent to the disposal. To do otherwise makes any sale agreement illegal and therefore void.
In effect this gives the NRM (as part of the Science Museum Group) a first refusal on any designated item.
91110 and 91131 are designated; it has been reported elsewhere that 91131 is to go to Crewe Heritage Centre (entirely fittingly as the last loco to be built at Crewe Works), which would suggest that 91110 will go to York or Shildon. 91111, which had its number, name and vinyls designated has now been de-designated.
50039
Member
Not sure if this is the right place - but are there any diagrams on a Sunday?
Did someone realise that a pile of torn pieces of vinyl were not exactly of much use as an exhibit?!
Yes, there are diagrams on a Sunday, but as LNER are still running reduced services, I expect they change from week to week.
The "official" Mk4 Sunday diagrams from May 2020 are shown on the last page of the PDF attachment on post 965. As mentioned previously in the thread, only diagrams BN401 to BN403 are expected to operate from September onwards, when the Mk4s are contained to Leeds & York workings.
ryan125hst
Established Member
Was a Mark 4 set taken to Doncaster via Worksop yesterday? I was out for a walk with my family and at about 14:50 was near to the Sheffield to Lincoln line, specifically the bridge where the curve joins from the ECML. I heard the screeching of train wheels and wondered if it was a freight train as it sounded long. A quick check of Realtime Trains showed a Bounds Green to Doncaster working that had passed through platform 2 at about that time:
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
I then reached the bridge, next to the East Retford Rugby Union Football Club, and could just make out what looked like a Mark 4 DVT with a battery tail lamp attached in the distance. If that is what it was, it must have diverted via Worksop as it did end up at Doncaster as planned. If I had been a couple of minutes earlier I would have been able to have a proper look but I had no idea it was due through until I heard it.
Realtime Trains - 5Z91 0845 Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Down Decoy Gbrf
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
I then reached the bridge, next to the East Retford Rugby Union Football Club, and could just make out what looked like a Mark 4 DVT with a battery tail lamp attached in the distance. If that is what it was, it must have diverted via Worksop as it did end up at Doncaster as planned. If I had been a couple of minutes earlier I would have been able to have a proper look but I had no idea it was due through until I heard it.
59CosG95
Established Member
It was indeed another Mk4 set off to store; this time it was BN10, albeit with TSO(E) (Coach B) no. 12200 swappd for 12214 and DVT 82224 swapped out for 82205. "ramillies19" on wnxxforum reports that this *should* be the last Mk4 set sent for store.Was a Mark 4 set taken to Doncaster via Worksop yesterday? I was out for a walk with my family and at about 14:50 was near to the Sheffield to Lincoln line, specifically the bridge where the curve joins from the ECML. I heard the screeching of train wheels and wondered if it was a freight train as it sounded long. A quick check of Realtime Trains showed a Bounds Green to Doncaster working that had passed through platform 2 at about that time:
Realtime Trains - 5Z91 0845 Bounds Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Down Decoy Gbrf
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
I then reached the bridge, next to the East Retford Rugby Union Football Club, and could just make out what looked like a Mark 4 DVT with a battery tail lamp attached in the distance. If that is what it was, it must have diverted via Worksop as it did end up at Doncaster as planned. If I had been a couple of minutes earlier I would have been able to have a proper look but I had no idea it was due through until I heard it.
dan4291
Member
Picture of 91125 today at Hett Mill LC, County Durham. How long do the 91s have left north of York?
ryan125hst
Established Member
Thanks 59CosG95, was the set stored at Worksop and just the loco returned to Doncaster, or was the whole set stored in Doncaster? I know numerous other sets have been stored at Worksop so I am curious as to why the path seemed to omit Worksop altogether until it seemingly diverted off the ECML.
Until early September is the current plan. Newcastle Thunderbird being withdrawn in November.
The plan, as with the previous few sets to leave the ECML, was for the loco to run round in Doncaster then to take the set to Worksop via Maltby as a different path / train ID etc (5Z91 to Doncaster and 5Z92 from Doncaster I think previous moves have been).
Yesterday it seems the move was heavily delayed leaving Bounds Green and (presumably as a consequence) it "hung a left" at Retford and went straight to Worksop.
I think the recent moves running via Doncaster with the loco running round are because the recent off lease sets are being stored in a different yard at Worksop to the earlier off lease sets, however correction and/or elaboration from those more in the know would be welcomed.
Scrapped after Hatfield, 17-10-2000:
10327-12314
Scrapped after Great Heck, 28-02-2001:
10322-11213-11224-12206-12306-12412-12413-12516-12525-82221
Scrapped by Sims (Hull) post LNER:
11241-11244-11290-11291-11419-11420-11421-11422-12400-12441-12460-12470-12473-12476
Scrapped by Booths (Rotherham) post LNER:
11237-11273-11292-11293-11294-11423-11424-11425-11427-11428-11429-11998-12403-12425-12438-12455-12456-12457-12458-12464-12466-12519-12538
Wouldn't be suprised if AC Loco Group or Loco Services Ltd would seek to preserve 91111. It would be a shame for that to go to scrap (might also be an outcry in some corners of the press and society).
Whats so special about 91111?
ScotRail158725
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nothing, most people seem to think its vinyls make it special
Given that AC loco group have sold a number of their locos in recent years and seem to be focussing their efforts on the one-off 89001, I can't see no reason at all why they would be interested in 91111, particularly given that two other 91s look likely to be preserved.
Same as 43172 - while in both cases the naming and vinyls were a nice idea, it doesn't create a reason why either should be preserved.
43096
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Agreed. They’ve become the “Early series and oddball prototype AC Group”. By binning the 86s and 87 they’ve got rid of the locos most people would likely relate to, which seems a strange move, but it is up to them what they do with their locos.
As for the original comment including LSL, their locos are not preserved. They are no more preserved than WCRC’s diesel fleet.
Indeed - I had that discussion with the vintage carriage register people a few years back about charter stock - their lists included former Cargo-D and DRS charter stock, which had been sold back into TOC use in some cases. I pointed out that these were not and never had been 'preserved' as such, but apparently their policy is (or was then - may still be) to count charter fleets as 'preserved'. Up to them, but that's not how I wold view charter stock.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Not so sure about that. The figurehead of the Jeremy Hosking empire under The Royal Scot brand has LNER A2 and A4 designs which were East Coast stalwarts just like D9016 and D9022 were a generation later. Appreciate they are filed under LSL instead of RSL> but I suggest the deltics are preserved.
Surely the main factor is what type of owner it is - and LSL is, like WCRC, a commercial charter company.
ryan125hst
Established Member
That makes sense in order to reduce the delays incurred. Which yard are they storing them in now? I know there's another yard on the right hand side as you head in the Sheffield direction, the sets having previously been stored on the left hand side. I think the other yard was full of coal wagons last time I went past over a year ago now. Presumably these have been moved and they are using that yard as additional storage?
Think we're starting to get a bit off-topic here with the deep dive into what does or does not count as preservation! Feel free to start a new thread to continue it but I think we need to draw it to a close on this thread.
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