• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Trainee train driver assessment day

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
I agree with @Stigy the MMI is the easiest to fail and the toughest element by far IMO. I found all the paper and computer based tests straight forward enough with the 2 handed joystick challenge being the trickiest purely down to there being no real way to practice this one and they take a couple of attempts to get used to.
Hi,

What type of questions are asked in the MMI?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
I agree with @Stigy the MMI is the easiest to fail and the toughest element by far IMO. I found all the paper and computer based tests straight forward enough with the 2 handed joystick challenge being the trickiest purely down to there being no real way to practice this one and they take a couple of attempts to get used to.
I have seen that one question they may ask is what have you done that is similar to a train drivers role. How did you answer this? Are they looking for times where you have worked independently for long periods of time? Health and safety as the prime objective?
 

baz962

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2017
Messages
3,284
Regarding the above post's. Some people find some of the test's harder than other test's . Someone might feel that the group bordoun is the hardest , while others will feel that the mmi is. I was actually told by the opc that the group bordoun is the test that is most failed of all the tests and if I remember correctly is the reason it's usually the first test you take.
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
Regarding the above post's. Some people find some of the test's harder than other test's . Someone might feel that the group bordoun is the hardest , while others will feel that the mmi is. I was actually told by the opc that the group bordoun is the test that is most failed of all the tests and if I remember correctly is the reason it's usually the first test you take.
Thank you,

I have read that the bourdon test can catch people cold, which is part of the test i suppose.
 

PickleTree

Member
Joined
10 Jan 2020
Messages
340
Location
Hampshire
I have seen that one question they may ask is what have you done that is similar to a train drivers role. How did you answer this? Are they looking for times where you have worked independently for long periods of time? Health and safety as the prime objective?
Yes that is my understanding, I am lucky as I used the example of being a driver on a Heritage railway and this really worked as an example. Others in my group were planning on using driving long distances etc.
 

Manda2194

Member
Joined
30 Apr 2020
Messages
171
Location
north west
Regarding the above post's. Some people find some of the test's harder than other test's . Someone might feel that the group bordoun is the hardest , while others will feel that the mmi is. I was actually told by the opc that the group bordoun is the test that is most failed of all the tests and if I remember correctly is the reason it's usually the first test you take.

Makes sense most posts ive read here suggests people fail the group bordon the most. I dont think I've have read on here someone mentioning they failed the computer test which is interesting. They are the ones im concerned with!
 

RachelT

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2020
Messages
31
Location
Cardiff
This is really interesting to read! I only applied a few days ago and may not even get an interview but I was planning on swotting up just in case.
I can't believe how anyone passes these tests as they seem really difficult! I think I can get to grips with the bourdon test as it's easy to practice. I had a go at the beeps test and I think that was ok but the joystick one.... That'll be a fail haha I don't play computer games which I think may help?

I think anyone that gets through the gruelling assessments really deserves a chance at driving!
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
This is really interesting to read! I only applied a few days ago and may not even get an interview but I was planning on swotting up just in case.
I can't believe how anyone passes these tests as they seem really difficult! I think I can get to grips with the bourdon test as it's easy to practice. I had a go at the beeps test and I think that was ok but the joystick one.... That'll be a fail haha I don't play computer games which I think may help?

I think anyone that gets through the gruelling assessments really deserves a chance at driving!

Hi Rachel,

I'm glad to hear that you applied for a driving position, and good luck with your application.

The first stage is the sift - the TOC deciding who they wish to invite to assessment, and this can take several months. Remember, TOCs get several hundred applications for each vacancy, so they can pick and choose who they think are the best, and they often reach the desired number before they even look at some and just dispose of the rest. However, many applicants will not be serious - they might want a job now and not progress their application in several months time, or they might not be on this site and researching more information about the process and the assessments. So being on here and researching is a great start!

Regarding the assessments, the Bourdon Test is the one which many fail. It's good that you recognise this and intend to practise. I'd recommend getting to grips with it using the download tool as it's easier to mark. But when you have got to grips with it, print the sheets out and do it on paper - it'll feel different and your results will also be different from on the tool. It'll take a little longer to mark and cost a bit more in paper and ink but will certainly be worth it.

The other assessment which many fail, which I would recommend you putting a lot of effort and preparation into is the Multi-Modal Interview (MMI). There's loads of information on these forums.

With regards to the 2-Hand Coordination Test, I've not heard many people failing that. It is a difficult test, almost everybody goes off the track, and often quite a lot, and almost everybody is worried at the end of it. However, that is absolutely normal and these people usually pass.

Good luck with your application!
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,881
This is really interesting to read! I only applied a few days ago and may not even get an interview but I was planning on swotting up just in case.
I can't believe how anyone passes these tests as they seem really difficult! I think I can get to grips with the bourdon test as it's easy to practice. I had a go at the beeps test and I think that was ok but the joystick one.... That'll be a fail haha I don't play computer games which I think may help?

I think anyone that gets through the gruelling assessments really deserves a chance at driving!
They’re more intense than difficult, and require an understanding, so it’s vital before you start the actual test, you take a vantage of the practice time (both at home, and on the test day). They’re not something you can practice as such, as there’s an element of “you either have it, or you don’t”, which is why there’s the two strike rule.

It’s vital you have an understanding, but not so much that you lose sleep over it. Good luck with your application.
 

RachelT

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2020
Messages
31
Location
Cardiff
Thanks both. From what I've read so far, if I even get to the next stage I'll be pretty happy with myself!
 

RachelT

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2020
Messages
31
Location
Cardiff
Hi Rachel,

I'm glad to hear that you applied for a driving position, and good luck with your application.

The first stage is the sift - the TOC deciding who they wish to invite to assessment, and this can take several months. Remember, TOCs get several hundred applications for each vacancy, so they can pick and choose who they think are the best, and they often reach the desired number before they even look at some and just dispose of the rest. However, many applicants will not be serious - they might want a job now and not progress their application in several months time, or they might not be on this site and researching more information about the process and the assessments. So being on here and researching is a great start!

Regarding the assessments, the Bourdon Test is the one which many fail. It's good that you recognise this and intend to practise. I'd recommend getting to grips with it using the download tool as it's easier to mark. But when you have got to grips with it, print the sheets out and do it on paper - it'll feel different and your results will also be different from on the tool. It'll take a little longer to mark and cost a bit more in paper and ink but will certainly be worth it.

The other assessment which many fail, which I would recommend you putting a lot of effort and preparation into is the Multi-Modal Interview (MMI). There's loads of information on these forums.

With regards to the 2-Hand Coordination Test, I've not heard many people failing that. It is a difficult test, almost everybody goes off the track, and often quite a lot, and almost everybody is worried at the end of it. However, that is absolutely normal and these people usually pass.

Good luck with your application!

Is the GBT always dots? I've seen letter and shape variations. And are they always done on paper?
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,881
Is the GBT always dots? I've seen letter and shape variations. And are they always done on paper?
I think the SCAAT is shapes but could be wrong. The GBs I’ve done have all been dots, although the practice material can be shapes/letters.
 

Applepie356

Member
Joined
23 Sep 2019
Messages
190
Location
UK
Describe a time when you have solved a difficult problem.

How would I go about answering this? Difficult problem can be very subjective. Could it be something that breaks your routine?

An example I’m thinking of is having to divert my bus at short notice, Informing the passengers of the diversion, informing my controller of the accident that’s blocking the road, then having to watch out for hazards such as low trees& bridges when on diversion as it’s an unfamiliar road etc.

Would the situation I mentioned above be a “difficult problem”?
 

Liam00086

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2019
Messages
219
Describe a time when you have solved a difficult problem.

How would I go about answering this? Difficult problem can be very subjective. Could it be something that breaks your routine?

An example I’m thinking of is having to divert my bus at short notice, Informing the passengers of the diversion, informing my controller of the accident that’s blocking the road, then having to watch out for hazards such as low trees& bridges when on diversion as it’s an unfamiliar road etc.

Would the situation I mentioned above be a “difficult problem”?
Yes it would, I used the same scenario for one of my questions.
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
Had assessment today, passed section 1 and 2 to an enhanced level but I am not sure I did enough in the mmi :( didnt feel great when I left that.
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,881
Had assessment today, passed section 1 and 2 to an enhanced level but I am not sure I did enough in the mmi :( didnt feel great when I left that.
Congrats! I’m sure you’ll be fine, most people come out of the MMI with mixed feelings.
 

Michael1985

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2017
Messages
57
Had an assessment day with OPC recently and failed on the 2 hand coordination, which was the very last test before the MMI. Passed everything else to enhanced standard but didn’t even reach national standard with this one. All I’ll say is that I went for speed over accuracy and got it horribly wrong.

In terms of the rest of the tests, I found them pretty straight forward.

As has already been said on here, the Group Bourdon Test is the only one you can really practice on so make sure you do it. The application on this website is really good; you’ll probably find it easier in the actual test as the formation of dots actually appear to be more spaced out and easier to identify. Think I was completing 10 lines and getting halfway through my 11th line every 2 minutes when they shouted change. Must have been pretty accurate with these as went through.

Next was the passage being read out. This was the one I was least looking forward to, but in hindsight was a lot easier than I’d anticipated. You get given a sheet with the passage on to read at the same time as a recording of the passage is played. After the recording has finished reading, you get 5 minutes to make notes/read the passage, after which you get your notes and the passage taken away. You then have 7 minutes to answer 18 multiple choice questions. Just make sure you’re picking out important details. The questions should be pretty obvious as you’re reading the text.

After that was the dials. This is one that I thought I’d done really badly in. Not because I didn’t think I was accurate, but the other candidate (there was only two of us) managed to do 40/43 whereas I had only done 21/43. Anyway, we both passed.

Then came the tones/phone directory. Ten lots of tones with a mixture of high and low. You’ll be counting the low tones. You’re not allowed to have your hands on the table (presumably to stop you making a tally chart), but have to have them under the table. I just closed my eyes to eliminate any distractions, and counted on my hands. After that you have 45 seconds to find plumbers with certain matching symbols. The practice material gets you using the required skills, but don’t take too much notice of area codes and different trades in the practice material is all I’ll say on that. Finally, a combination of both except the tones are all the same so you don’t have to differentiate the two.

Next came the computer tests. The grey dot one was the most mentally taxing as I found it to question yourself; is it getting darker, is it grey? The long and short of it is to assume that it’s always grey because it is OBVIOUS when it turns black, always remember that. Also, I found moving my seat either further away or closer to the screen at regular intervals helpful.

I found the photos that flashed up pretty straight forward, I know that a lot of people found these difficult. The only advice I could give is to not focus too much in one place; just quickly scan as that’s all you’ll have time for anyway. Also, wherever there are traffic lights, there are usually road signs. That’s what I fathomed whilst practicing for this.

Lastly, my nemisis, the 2 hand coordination task. Joysticks are quite sensitive. Make use of the practice attempts you get and have a little practice with the joysticks before the practice attempts even begin. That sounds weird but will make sense when you get to it. Like I said previously, I went for speed over accuracy and fell flat on my face. I also think there was an element that it was the last computerised test and may have rushed it.

On this note, and for future reference for myself, can anyone who has successfully done the 2 hand coordination test clarify something for me? Can you actually do diagonal and curved lines in one fluid movement by moving both joysticks at the same time, or do you have to do them independently by zig-zagging down those types of lines?

Best of luck to anyone sitting those tests soon. In a weird way, they’re quite enjoyable.
 

Carpy19

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2020
Messages
15
Location
Yeovil
Had an assessment day with OPC recently and failed on the 2 hand coordination, which was the very last test before the MMI. Passed everything else to enhanced standard but didn’t even reach national standard with this one. All I’ll say is that I went for speed over accuracy and got it horribly wrong.

In terms of the rest of the tests, I found them pretty straight forward.

As has already been said on here, the Group Bourdon Test is the only one you can really practice on so make sure you do it. The application on this website is really good; you’ll probably find it easier in the actual test as the formation of dots actually appear to be more spaced out and easier to identify. Think I was completing 10 lines and getting halfway through my 11th line every 2 minutes when they shouted change. Must have been pretty accurate with these as went through.

Next was the passage being read out. This was the one I was least looking forward to, but in hindsight was a lot easier than I’d anticipated. You get given a sheet with the passage on to read at the same time as a recording of the passage is played. After the recording has finished reading, you get 5 minutes to make notes/read the passage, after which you get your notes and the passage taken away. You then have 7 minutes to answer 18 multiple choice questions. Just make sure you’re picking out important details. The questions should be pretty obvious as you’re reading the text.

After that was the dials. This is one that I thought I’d done really badly in. Not because I didn’t think I was accurate, but the other candidate (there was only two of us) managed to do 40/43 whereas I had only done 21/43. Anyway, we both passed.

Then came the tones/phone directory. Ten lots of tones with a mixture of high and low. You’ll be counting the low tones. You’re not allowed to have your hands on the table (presumably to stop you making a tally chart), but have to have them under the table. I just closed my eyes to eliminate any distractions, and counted on my hands. After that you have 45 seconds to find plumbers with certain matching symbols. The practice material gets you using the required skills, but don’t take too much notice of area codes and different trades in the practice material is all I’ll say on that. Finally, a combination of both except the tones are all the same so you don’t have to differentiate the two.

Next came the computer tests. The grey dot one was the most mentally taxing as I found it to question yourself; is it getting darker, is it grey? The long and short of it is to assume that it’s always grey because it is OBVIOUS when it turns black, always remember that. Also, I found moving my seat either further away or closer to the screen at regular intervals helpful.

I found the photos that flashed up pretty straight forward, I know that a lot of people found these difficult. The only advice I could give is to not focus too much in one place; just quickly scan as that’s all you’ll have time for anyway. Also, wherever there are traffic lights, there are usually road signs. That’s what I fathomed whilst practicing for this.

Lastly, my nemisis, the 2 hand coordination task. Joysticks are quite sensitive. Make use of the practice attempts you get and have a little practice with the joysticks before the practice attempts even begin. That sounds weird but will make sense when you get to it. Like I said previously, I went for speed over accuracy and fell flat on my face. I also think there was an element that it was the last computerised test and may have rushed it.

On this note, and for future reference for myself, can anyone who has successfully done the 2 hand coordination test clarify something for me? Can you actually do diagonal and curved lines in one fluid movement by moving both joysticks at the same time, or do you have to do them independently by zig-zagging down those types of lines?

Best of luck to anyone sitting those tests soon. In a weird way, they’re quite enjoyable.

Hi Michael1985,

Sorry to hear that you fell at the final hurdle but you appear to be showing great resilience; I'm sure you'll bounce back stronger and smash it next time. I'm waiting to hear back to see if I've made it through to the assessment day, you're feedback and experience is very welcome so thank you. Which TOC did you do your assessments with? Best of luck moving forward with your career :)
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
Had an assessment day with OPC recently and failed on the 2 hand coordination, which was the very last test before the MMI. Passed everything else to enhanced standard but didn’t even reach national standard with this one. All I’ll say is that I went for speed over accuracy and got it horribly wrong.

In terms of the rest of the tests, I found them pretty straight forward.

As has already been said on here, the Group Bourdon Test is the only one you can really practice on so make sure you do it. The application on this website is really good; you’ll probably find it easier in the actual test as the formation of dots actually appear to be more spaced out and easier to identify. Think I was completing 10 lines and getting halfway through my 11th line every 2 minutes when they shouted change. Must have been pretty accurate with these as went through.

Next was the passage being read out. This was the one I was least looking forward to, but in hindsight was a lot easier than I’d anticipated. You get given a sheet with the passage on to read at the same time as a recording of the passage is played. After the recording has finished reading, you get 5 minutes to make notes/read the passage, after which you get your notes and the passage taken away. You then have 7 minutes to answer 18 multiple choice questions. Just make sure you’re picking out important details. The questions should be pretty obvious as you’re reading the text.

After that was the dials. This is one that I thought I’d done really badly in. Not because I didn’t think I was accurate, but the other candidate (there was only two of us) managed to do 40/43 whereas I had only done 21/43. Anyway, we both passed.

Then came the tones/phone directory. Ten lots of tones with a mixture of high and low. You’ll be counting the low tones. You’re not allowed to have your hands on the table (presumably to stop you making a tally chart), but have to have them under the table. I just closed my eyes to eliminate any distractions, and counted on my hands. After that you have 45 seconds to find plumbers with certain matching symbols. The practice material gets you using the required skills, but don’t take too much notice of area codes and different trades in the practice material is all I’ll say on that. Finally, a combination of both except the tones are all the same so you don’t have to differentiate the two.

Next came the computer tests. The grey dot one was the most mentally taxing as I found it to question yourself; is it getting darker, is it grey? The long and short of it is to assume that it’s always grey because it is OBVIOUS when it turns black, always remember that. Also, I found moving my seat either further away or closer to the screen at regular intervals helpful.

I found the photos that flashed up pretty straight forward, I know that a lot of people found these difficult. The only advice I could give is to not focus too much in one place; just quickly scan as that’s all you’ll have time for anyway. Also, wherever there are traffic lights, there are usually road signs. That’s what I fathomed whilst practicing for this.

Lastly, my nemisis, the 2 hand coordination task. Joysticks are quite sensitive. Make use of the practice attempts you get and have a little practice with the joysticks before the practice attempts even begin. That sounds weird but will make sense when you get to it. Like I said previously, I went for speed over accuracy and fell flat on my face. I also think there was an element that it was the last computerised test and may have rushed it.

On this note, and for future reference for myself, can anyone who has successfully done the 2 hand coordination test clarify something for me? Can you actually do diagonal and curved lines in one fluid movement by moving both joysticks at the same time, or do you have to do them independently by zig-zagging down those types of lines?

Best of luck to anyone sitting those tests soon. In a weird way, they’re quite enjoyable.
Hi,

I completely agree regarding the test, they are enjoyable...after anyway. I found it zig and zag, not a smooth diagonal or curve. As for the mmi, I genuinely believed I had failed, but it's just how they approach the interview. It has been stressed on here multiple times but do not make a story up. They will know. I had mine in leeds and there was another participant taking the mmi, wish I had taken his details to see how they did. Best of luck to you!
 

Gorlash1886

Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
148
Indeed as above the mmi they will grill you, if you are giving information which they do not reckon is true they will pull you apart. I passed my mmi with real examples and they still drill down into you to make sure that your behaviours are right
 

nb2001uk

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2020
Messages
255
Location
London, Greater London
Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/

Hi, can anyone clarify how accurate the linked tones test is? Because thats insane. Thanks!
 

Gorlash1886

Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
148
I agree everything you will see on YouTube and other sites the tones are far faster than they are on the day.
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
Hi, can anyone clarify how accurate the linked tones test is? Because thats insane. Thanks!
The actual assessment one isnt as hard as that one. I would say what makes it's even is that you may put more pressure on yourself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top