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EHRC require LNER to improve accessible travel service

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Starmill

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The Equalities and Human Rights Commission have signed a new agreement with LNER following an alleged breach of the Equality Act relating to discrimination against disabled travellers. LNER will provide further training to customer-facing staff and improve their assistance service for visually impared passengers.

The Commission's Chief Executive, Rebecca Hilsenrath said:
“Disabled people must be treated like everyone else and not like second class citizens. Under the Equality Act businesses must make reasonable adjustments so that disabled people aren’t unfairly disadvantaged. We’re pleased to see LNER are taking proactive steps and working with us to improve access to its services and facilities so its services and facilities are accessible to customers with different types of disability.”
 
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bearhugger

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Having just booked tickets to Kings Cross for mid August for travel with my wife in a wheelchair, this doesn't fill me with confidence.
 

mpthomson

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Having just booked tickets to Kings Cross for mid August for travel with my wife in a wheelchair, this doesn't fill me with confidence.

It looks like a specific issue with a visually impaired passenger(s) from reading this.
 

Gems

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Am I alone in saying this. But I think LNER's performance generally is abysmal. It has certainly got worse in the past few years, but I don't know why. Their onboard catering and trolley staff seem like they have little interest. Often they ignore you even when you make it obvious you wish to purchase. I cant imagine their performance would be any better with disabled passengers.
All the TOC's are going to have to raise their game in the coming years. Things have changed this last 4 month.
 

800001

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Having just booked tickets to Kings Cross for mid August for travel with my wife in a wheelchair, this doesn't fill me with confidence.

Just think how many people successfully travel in wheelchairs on board lner services, they should fill you with confidence
 

bearhugger

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It looks like a specific issue with a visually impaired passenger(s) from reading this.
I hope it's not a general attitude from LNER towards the Disability Discrimination Act (if it's still called that). Mind you , if it was I'm sure we would be hearing a lot more about it.
Just think how many people successfully travel in wheelchairs on board lner services, they should fill you with confidence
Yes, you are correct in that we rarely hear the "good news" stories which of course aren't generally deemed "newsworthy".
From what I can make out, I'm booked onto a nine car set in coach A, seats 1 (wheelchair space) and 12. When I booked at the ticket office the clerk said something about social distancing when sat, I've had a look at the seating plans (https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/_page-structure/azuma-content/Azuma-seat-maps) and am hoping I'll be permitted to sit in the Companion seat across the table from the wheelchair space.
 

800001

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I hope it's not a general attitude from LNER towards the Disability Discrimination Act (if it's still called that). Mind you , if it was I'm sure we would be hearing a lot more about it.

Yes, you are correct in that we rarely hear the "good news" stories which of course aren't generally deemed "newsworthy".
From what I can make out, I'm booked onto a nine car set in coach A, seats 1 (wheelchair space) and 12. When I booked at the ticket office the clerk said something about social distancing when sat, I've had a look at the seating plans (https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/_page-structure/azuma-content/Azuma-seat-maps) and am hoping I'll be permitted to sit in the Companion seat across the table from the wheelchair space.
You will be, if travelling together you can sit together, plus coach A often quite as people don't like to walk all way to front
 

bearhugger

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You will be, if travelling together you can sit together, plus coach A often quite as people don't like to walk all way to front
Thanks @800001. I bought our Two together railcard and booked the tickets and asked for to book a wheelchair space for my wife all in the same transaction so I was a little surprised the booked seats were three rows and a table apart, but I assume the reservation / booking system must be set up for social distancing in some way.
 

SussexLad

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As a frequent traveller on LNER who is visially imapired, they are rubbish. When i travel with my partner who's in an electric wheelchair, they pretty much always appear quickly with a ramp.

When I travel by myself, theyre useless. I am lucky that I can get off without any help but need help from their onwards. Numerous times I've had no one turn up to the train and a random passenger guides me to the station entrance. Better at kings Cross but still rubbish. Surprisingly GWR, Southern, Avanti tend to be quite good at their staffed stations
 

Versa274

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Am I alone in saying this. But I think LNER's performance generally is abysmal. It has certainly got worse in the past few years, but I don't know why. Their onboard catering and trolley staff seem like they have little interest. Often they ignore you even when you make it obvious you wish to purchase. I cant imagine their performance would be any better with disabled passengers.
All the TOC's are going to have to raise their game in the coming years. Things have changed this last 4 month.
we need to revert back to GNER standard all round
 

Mojo

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Yes, you are correct in that we rarely hear the "good news" stories which of course aren't generally deemed "newsworthy".
It is very disappointing and an indictment of the poor service public transport operators provide to disabled customers that conveying a wheelchair-using customer on board a train with no fuss or problems is considered “good news.”
 

Tetchytyke

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But I think LNER's performance generally is abysmal. It has certainly got worse in the past few years, but I don't know why. Their onboard catering and trolley staff seem like they have little interest.

The change in performance happened pretty much overnight when Stagecoach took over the franchise. And the same senior managers who failed under Stagecoach are still there, still failing, under state ownership, so it isn't a massive surprise.

Many of the issues are simply down to staffing, especially at stations. It turns out that when you cut your station staffing, there are fewer staff about to help disabled passengers on and off trains. Who knew?

In my experience, York is particularly bad. And it's not that the staff themselves are lazy/ignorant/useless/other, it's quite simply that staff cannot be in three places at once.
 

LowLevel

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It is very disappointing and an indictment of the poor service public transport operators provide to disabled customers that conveying a wheelchair-using customer on board a train with no fuss or problems is considered “good news.”

Passenger assistance is one of the few areas on the railway that you can make really good for individuals - personal service outside of Intercity first class is quite unusual. By the same token it can also be a horror story. It is something I put quite a lot of effort into getting right though obviously things can still go wrong.

I think the best one for me was a visually impaired lady with a guide dog who I helped on a regular basis when I worked on a station. About 4 years later I came across her again as a guard on the other side of the country and she still remembered my name from my voice - that felt really good.
 

LowLevel

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The change in performance happened pretty much overnight when Stagecoach took over the franchise. And the same senior managers who failed under Stagecoach are still there, still failing, under state ownership, so it isn't a massive surprise.

Many of the issues are simply down to staffing, especially at stations. It turns out that when you cut your station staffing, there are fewer staff about to help disabled passengers on and off trains. Who knew? In my experience, York is particularly bad.

Yup. Efficiency savings and cuts rarely leave people in a happy and engaged frame of mind. Same with the on board service. They've had years of being mucked around with since GNER so it is hardly surprising they're uninterested.

Whenever I have used them they've been good, though.
 

Mojo

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Passenger assistance is one of the few areas on the railway that you can make really good for individuals - personal service outside of Intercity first class is quite unusual. By the same token it can also be a horror story. It is something I put quite a lot of effort into getting right though obviously things can still go wrong.
Absolutely right. Having done the job myself I know all too well the challenges, but on the other hand the attitude of some has been quite frankly deeply upsetting and embarrassing.

Instances in the past three years when accompanying a family member in a wheelchair range from watching her be manhandled our of the wheelchair and then promptly dropped from standing onto the platform when the staff member forgot their T Key to unlock the ramp, being chased down the road from the station when I walked away after having been told that I was wrong in requesting assistance at a certain station, to having snide and untrue comments made about us in reports. I've had to listen to more staff complain about having a bad back when they are being asked to deploy the ramp than I care to remember.
 

Starmill

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It must be a cause of serious embarrassment to David Horne that the complaint of unlawful discrimination wasn't dealt with appropriately in the first instance, and that it has taken the involvement of the EHRC to secure legal compliance from the firm. I find it impossible to imagine that an organisation like LNER could engage in wilful non-compliance. A public reprimand must be a cheek-burning event.
 

harz99

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In my experience, York is particularly bad. And it's not that the staff themselves are lazy/ignorant/useless/other, it's quite simply that staff cannot be in three places at once.

Exactly that, it's a long time since i took VS from InterCity East Coast but the problem in those days was largely the Disabled Passenger Reservation System, DPRS took no account whatsover of staffing levels nor how many existing bookings the system already had for a particular time/date/station which resulted in far more requests than could be coped with. If the current system still has the same problem and you add in those passengers who create an additional "on the day demand" requirement, the railway as it is stands no chance of satisfying all the disabled users assistance needs.
 

800001

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Thanks @800001. I bought our Two together railcard and booked the tickets and asked for to book a wheelchair space for my wife all in the same transaction so I was a little surprised the booked seats were three rows and a table apart, but I assume the reservation / booking system must be set up for social distancing in some way.

Correct, system is socially distancing all customers, regardless of the size of group, you should not have any issue sittibgv
Exactly that, it's a long time since i took VS from InterCity East Coast but the problem in those days was largely the Disabled Passenger Reservation System, DPRS took no account whatsover of staffing levels nor how many existing bookings the system already had for a particular time/date/station which resulted in far more requests than could be coped with. If the current system still has the same problem and you add in those passengers who create an additional "on the day demand" requirement, the railway as it is stands no chance of satisfying all the disabled users assistance needs.

The DPRS system hasnt altered, still allows and unlimited about of jobs to be booked, with no limit per train etc.

If the people who book assistance as they still think it is BR porter service didn't, then the list at large stations may become manageable.
 

TUC

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Thanks @800001. I bought our Two together railcard and booked the tickets and asked for to book a wheelchair space for my wife all in the same transaction so I was a little surprised the booked seats were three rows and a table apart, but I assume the reservation / booking system must be set up for social distancing in some way.
I wondered how seat allocations were working for disabled passengers travelling with others, or indeed family groups, under the current arrangements. If you're travelling with someone assisting you, or a member of the same family, applying social distancing to seat allocations, is more than a bit pointless.
 

TUC

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The article frustratingly does not give details of the nature of the incident. One does wonder what it was, especially if it ended up going down legal routes.

The main frustration for my wife, who is visually impaired, is the number of times when having booked assistance explaining she can't see, the staff member turns up with a wheelchair, which really is stereotyping what disability is assumed to involve.

Her worst experience was at an airport rather than a station when, not only did the staff member turn up with a wheelchair, he tried to insist my wife sat in it, to which she rightly refused, but then had great problems in getting them to guide her to where she needed to be.
 

OneOffDave

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They try their best, unfortunately some people are never happy.
I'd just like to be able to use the trains without having to bump myself and my wheelchair off or have to trip the doors using the green handle or physically blocking the doors to prevent the train departing. I've had assistance fails on 8 out of my last 10 journeys and they've all happened at a London terminus where the staff on the concourse outnumber the passengers about 2:1 at the moment. The Assistance point has been closed and some contractors who haven't been trained about what to do or where to get help have been put there instead to squirt people with hand gel. The TOC and NR both say it's the responsibility of the other. there's been do derogation of the legal responsibilities on NR or the TOC but they've just decided that they aren't going to bother with assistance at the moment.
 

OneOffDave

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Her worst experience was at an airport rather than a station when, not only did the staff member turn up with a wheelchair, he tried to insist my wife sat in it, to which she rightly refused, but then had great problems in getting them to guide her to where she needed to be.
Airports can be awful. I've had them insist on pushing me in my wheelchair when all I need is the aisle chair at the aircraft. It's one size fits none
 

Swimbar

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I'd just like to be able to use the trains without having to bump myself and my wheelchair off or have to trip the doors using the green handle or physically blocking the doors to prevent the train departing. I've had assistance fails on 8 out of my last 10 journeys and they've all happened at a London terminus where the staff on the concourse outnumber the passengers about 2:1 at the moment. The Assistance point has been closed and some contractors who haven't been trained about what to do or where to get help have been put there instead to squirt people with hand gel. The TOC and NR both say it's the responsibility of the other. there's been do derogation of the legal responsibilities on NR or the TOC but they've just decided that they aren't going to bother with assistance at the moment.
There is not a great deal operating as we would like at the moment due to the situation we all find ourselves in.
Staff are furloughed and others are redeployed to areas they are not familiar with.
We are all in this together hopefully!, ablebodied and those with a disability and we should just put up with the inconvenience until normality returns.
 

OneOffDave

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There is not a great deal operating as we would like at the moment due to the situation we all find ourselves in.
Staff are furloughed and others are redeployed to areas they are not familiar with.
We are all in this together hopefully!, ablebodied and those with a disability and we should just put up with the inconvenience until normality returns.
I'm not seeing many ablebodied people being inconvenienced to the point where they are having to delay trains just to get on them to go home from work having done an 11 hour day. It's the responsibility of NR and TOC managers to ensure that, despite the current situation, they still comply with their legal responsibilities. It's been that bad I've had to give up using the train for now and I'm driving into central London. No one appears to have considered that some key workers will have disabilities
 

Swimbar

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I'm not seeing many ablebodied people being inconvenienced to the point where they are having to delay trains just to get on them to go home from work having done an 11 hour day. It's the responsibility of NR and TOC managers to ensure that, despite the current situation, they still comply with their legal responsibilities. It's been that bad I've had to give up using the train for now and I'm driving into central London. No one appears to have considered that some key workers will have disabilities
Clearly you have not been stood at a bus stop and not been allowed to board the bus because it is full in accordance with social distancing - initially 15 people to a double decker bus. No decent train service operating. Buses reduced to hourly.
You actually now appear to be doing what HM Government requested in the first place - driving to work rather than using public transport. Not possible when you have one car required by your spouse as a key worker. Many key workers have been inconvenienced.
 
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TUC

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The DPRS system hasnt altered, still allows and unlimited about of jobs to be booked, with no limit per train etc.

If the people who book assistance as they still think it is BR porter service didn't, then the list at large stations may become manageable.
My wife had the experience at Middlesbrough of almost missing the train, despite having booked assistance, due to thr number of other people also requiring assistance. She only caught it by someone else guiding her to the train.

In complaining to TPE, she made the point that, whilst she understood the difficulty of the number of people requiring help, given that TPE had the contact details of anyone who had booked assistance, why did they not contact some of the passengers, explain the problem, and ask if any were willing to travel on a different train?
 
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TUC

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There is not a great deal operating as we would like at the moment due to the situation we all find ourselves in.
Staff are furloughed and others are redeployed to areas they are not familiar with.
We are all in this together hopefully!, ablebodied and those with a disability and we should just put up with the inconvenience until normality returns.
But surely sufficient staff needed to provide assistance should not be furloughed? They are still required. Moreover, it's not asking much of whichever staff are at a station to be aware of passengers requiring assistance and make sure they get the support they need. They may lack formal training, but basic initiative and customer-friendly attitudes go a long way in smoothing over any lack of experience.
 
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