ForTheLoveOf
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Yes, they were introduced 11 years ago in 2009.Do Merseyrail have penalty fares?
Yes, they were introduced 11 years ago in 2009.Do Merseyrail have penalty fares?
Yes, they were introduced 11 years ago in 2009.
Penalty Fares have been around for much longer in some areas and yet "just" making someone buy a ticket is still common practice in many non-DOO areas of the country. It's mainly DOO-land (i.e. the southeast) where ticketless travel tends to be dealt with using Penalty Fares as a default.Seems strange then that these revenue protection officials are happy to let those caught without paying to go to the ticket office and purchase one.
Maybe it’s deemed less than going through the penalty fare process.
Ticket checks at Shipley and Keighley today. A good number caught with no tickets.
I must confess to subscribing to your view that Eid played a part in the usual contract security not being present.I went from Menston to Skipton yesterday, walked along the canal to Gargrave and then train back to Shipley and Menston. I noticed the checkers at Shipley although the emphasis seemed to be on people entering the system- I was wondering whether Eid might have made a dent in the availability of the usual contract security.
Three people looking after the (open) barrier at Skipton, although that number might be necessary to deal with the charter passengers.
No opportunity to buy at Gargrave and no checks on the journey back. I'd bought a Menston-Gargrave return as the bus alternative from Skipton would have stopped by the time I was on my way back.
Travelled St Albans -St Pancras - Faversham and return today (part HS1) today with tight ticket barrier checks on all occasions , as well as on observed passing stations such as Strood.
Well worth doing , as all trains were very decently loaded with passengers enjoying the service and the weather.(yes the mask wearing was tightly reiterated by all staff) - a good experience. Other friends travelled Winchmore Hill - London Victoria - Faversham and said much the same.
I get the impression that staff are happy to see people out and about on trains and stations. Certainly the ones I make the effort to talk (and thank) to.
I'm loving seeing people again. It's been a totally miserable, boring few months to be a guard. We lost most of our passengers, our colleagues in catering (we have no idea if the contractors will ever return), the revenue protection teams we work with and so on. If I wanted to be locked in a box a few feet long by a few feet wide I would be a train driver earning more money by now.
I've taken a novel for me approach to managing the matter of passenger interactions.
Bar the first week or two we have been encouraged to patrol the train without hanging around. Now we are being told we can check tickets if we want but not sell them and can provide the usual customer service.
I thus have taken to checking tickets on board long distance trains - most people are travelling with valid tickets.
I've taken to doing platform checks on local services or on board checks before departure. I'm into the thousands of pounds gained already of people booted back to the booking office or paying on their phones.
Standing at the platform gate at somewhere like Liverpool Lime Street on your own is surprisingly effective at improving the percentage of people who hold tickets.
At Leeds they have split the barrier in half. Looking towards the platforms, left for entry, right for exit. Only every other barrier is in use to aid social distancing, and staff are now bang in the middle behind a plastic screen.
Whats the situation on WCML at the moment regarding ticket checks? I dont think Avanti Trains are checking tickets at the moment meaning you coud get a free ride from say Manchester to maybe London something I wouldnt even condone or try.
Whats the situation on WCML at the moment regarding ticket checks? I dont think Avanti Trains are checking tickets at the moment meaning you coud get a free ride from say Manchester to maybe London something I wouldnt even condone or try.
Revenue protection at Leeds on the bridge for the first time along with BTP and sniffer dogs.
We all had to queue to the right and have our tickets checked before passing the sniffer dogs.
Whilst in the queue I noticed a couple of people hurriedly purchase tickets off the Northern app.
Could the revenue protection check the date and time of purchase and also when the ticket was activated and put 2 + 2 together and realise said passenger didn't have a ticket before seeing the revenue staff and penalty fare them?
Or would that be deemed harsh?
Actually, this is very far from clear. If you presented a valid ticket for the journey you made at the point at which you were asked, you would not be guilty of a byelaw offence, and if you'd paid for the whole journey accurately there would be no unpaid debt. Unless I'm very much mistaken there's nothing in the Penalty Fare rules that would allow one to be issued in such circumstances either.If they suspected you bought it in the queue or post-boarding, then definitely. At that point, assuming you’d come from a station with ticket buying facilities, you’d have failed to buy before boarding thus leaving yourself liable to a Penalty Fare.
Actually, this is very far from clear. If you presented a valid ticket for the journey you made at the point at which you were asked, you would not be guilty of a byelaw offence, and if you'd paid for the whole journey accurately there would be no unpaid debt. Unless I'm very much mistaken there's nothing in the Penalty Fare rules that would allow one to be issued in such circumstances either.
So what the operator would need to do is prove beyond a doubt that the traveller had attempted to avoid paying, and have the necessary evidence to support that. Possible, but not easy. Although of course how much that actually matters given that we've seen cases where they've tried to coerce people into settling for ridiculous sums is uncertain.
Interesting. I thought I’d read about a case on here where someone was caught out doing this exact thing.
As I've already pointed out this isn't quite correct. The record of the time kept in the 2D code is not reliable, and almost all tickets aren't 'activated'. The regulatory framework also doesn't exist for this type of enforcement. If it did, we'd want to avoid the issues in the Swiss model which sometimes crop up, such as the case of a journalist who bought a ticket for a late running train after it's booked departure time and was given a large penalty fare.I read the same and because the tickets say when bought and activated it would be easy to ascertain that a ticket has been purchased because they realised that they are now going to have their ticket checked.
Just had my first ticket inspection on a Northern service post lockdown so maybe they’re up and running again
How do they deal with the guard ticket machines / mobile phones / whatever they use these days as presumably they are used by several different guards in a day, a set of alcohol wipes in the cab?!
Back to normal then, changing from not leaving their cab due to coronavirus to not leaving the cab because they don't want toGreat to hear Northern guards are now out and about doing tickets again
Back to normal then, changing from not leaving their cab due to coronavirus to not leaving the cab because they don't want to
(not saying this applies to all northern guards ofc, just a bit of a joke based on my normal experience)
But they're not "spending money" on revenue teams, I'm as RPI and other than the odd gateline cover my employer has been paying me to stay at home since early April, since June we've been issuing Penalty Fares/MG11's at gatelinesSpending money on group of revenue inspectors, in some cases these groups have more staff than passengers makes no sense. Also, I don't fare evasion rate is anywhere near as high as people think it is.