-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates
- Thread starter Bigfoot
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
DavidGrain
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 1,236
The 483s were Tube trains. The 484s are ex Sub Surface trains which are much bigger.
Don't count on it. If you want a ride on a 483 it would probably be best to do it this year.
Chris125
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 3,076
484s/D78s are significantly taller than 'deep tube' stock like the 483s, though not quite as tall (or long) as typical mainline stock - hence their suitability.
Dunfanaghy Rd
Member
Optical illusion due to the accommodation bogies, I think.
Pat
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,378
When I glanced at it initially, I thought the dark blue band round the bottom of the body wasn’t that noticeable. After a double take it did seem higher...
trainmania100
Established Member
Unsure if this is the only progress they've made so far or if there are some nearer-completed units in the workshops, they do look quite a few months away from completing, I guess covid hasn't helped the situation.
I bet swr are desperate to get their hands on them with their failing 483s
I bet swr are desperate to get their hands on them with their failing 483s
DavidGrain
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 1,236
The general opinion is that Vivarail will start the build of the 484s in their new premises after they have completed the 230s for TfW which means that they will still have the upheaval of the move to come first.
Bob Price
Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,034
Isn't there a lot of rail upgrading to do before they arrive including sorting the tunnel out.
Chris125
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 3,076
They fit through the tunnel, the principal gauging issue is Smallbrook Lane overbridge - it was reported some weekend closures were needed this summer but no sign of them yet.
Rick1984
Member
- Joined
- 23 Aug 2012
- Messages
- 1,034
Is anything being done at Ryde Esplanade, as that is a very tight curving platform? I imagine the middle doors might not be able to open due to the gap
When I travelled on the line on Thursday, there were some notices up at Shanklin about weekend closures, I think one was the weekend just gone or possibly next weekend. I didn't pay much attention as it was just a one-off day trip for me.
Have to say I'm surprised a D78 will fit through Ryde tunnel.
Bob Price
Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,034
All measured apparently before they ordered.
Chris125
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 3,076
Ah yes, they must have put this online very recently - the SWR website now has closures down for the 15th/16th and 22nd/23rd: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/planned-improvements/august-2020-works
Last edited:
pdeaves
Established Member
Try https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/planned-improvements/august-2020-works (August, not September).
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 11,448
There was at least 18 months of discussion before the first public announcement. So it would be a bit embarrassing if they got it wrong at this stage
Oh yes I remember the discussion and I'm sure it's all been measured. But sat as a passenger and seeing the tunnel walls very close to the window at times I'm surprised they fit.
Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time something's been measured wrong!
Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time something's been measured wrong!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
More that it has the highest per-passenger-mile subsidy on the network, so spending on it is hard to justify.
Undeserving then.
From what I saw last week there is absolutely zero revenue collection being done. I didn't see a single other person buy a ticket, or see a single person tap in with a smart card.
From what I saw, it's a free service for local people, or indeed anybody.
The steadily declining passenger numbers also suggest that fewer and fewer are bothering to pay.
The restricted loading gauge also doesn't help - there's a reason that the last 2 fleets on the island have been ex tube (deep level) stock - 'normal' cascaded (or new) stock won't fit - as it is the 484s (physically bigger than the previous fleets, smaller than most mainline fleets) are the best they can get at the moment, the only recently released tube fleets were in the early 2010s and were designed for automatic train operation, which would have made their use on the Island tricky!
Revenue is a free for all at the moment due to SWR policy being no on board ticket checks. Most stations also don’t have TVMs from memory. They’re relying on passenger good Will to buy at the few TVMs on the network or using mobile tickets.
by this point I think it counts as tradition, this is third generation of ex-LU stock
DavidGrain
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 1,236
We know that the Island line has a restricted loading gauge because of the tunnel and also possibly as someone has mentioned above the Smallbrook bridge.
Therefore we know that standard UK rolling stock cannot be used. So what are the alternatives
1) Build a very small fleet of non-standard trains which will fit the loading gauge with all the fixed cost that would entail for just five trains
2) Scrap the line
3) Refurbish existing stock from elsewhere for further use
The first option is not financially viable on any business case assumptions
The second option would have been justified in 1965 but we have moved on from the thinking of those days
The third option is the only viable alternative and the stock is available so lets use it.
I have noticed among the comments on this thread a feeling among some answers that the writers have an antipathy toward this stock whatever the justification for using it. I have ridden on the class 230 versions on the Marston Vale line and the 230 units for Transport for Wales are tested on my local line. Quite frankly the users of the Island Line when they see them and use them will think that these are brand new trains and will be glad of them.
So can we please stop the carping about them until you have experienced travelling on them. Hopefully the track will be in a better condition than it was when I last travelled on it. At one point I was lifted out of my seat and then slammed back down and I can assure that was painful.
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,844
The D78s in the condition they left London in were already a massive step up from the 483s.
Thread drift, but I've never really understood why instead of closing all the railways on IoW, they left this truncated stub. Was it just about distributing summer holiday makers down the east coast of the island?
It just doesn't seem to serve much purpose as a transport system. It is lovely to ride on though. Should get a better view out of the windows with the new stock too!
Clarence Yard
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 2,487
It was the inability to shift by bus the then large number of holidaymakers to Sandown and Shanklin that saved the line.
The files in the National Archives show the train by train loadings for various days of the week in various months in 1963 and the summer saturday loadings were bonkers busy, several hundred on each train for several hours of the day. In winter, apart from the Sandown schools train, they were largely pathetic - a bus would have been adequate.
Unfortunately Ventnor missed out on the recommendation but it didn't have nearly the same traffic level as Sandown or Shanklin and was already declining as a destination in the early 1960's. When it did feature, the cost of a new sub station was too much for BR to consider retention.
The files in the National Archives show the train by train loadings for various days of the week in various months in 1963 and the summer saturday loadings were bonkers busy, several hundred on each train for several hours of the day. In winter, apart from the Sandown schools train, they were largely pathetic - a bus would have been adequate.
Unfortunately Ventnor missed out on the recommendation but it didn't have nearly the same traffic level as Sandown or Shanklin and was already declining as a destination in the early 1960's. When it did feature, the cost of a new sub station was too much for BR to consider retention.
- Status