There's just something I don't quite like about this video. The oncoming truck has the barrier drop on it. The truck going the other way seems on barrier timing to have gone through after the sequence should have started as well. The van behind it stops suddenly, well beyond the stop line - if it hadn't done so it would have struck the farside barrier itself. And flashing lights are not visible flashing, on the CCTV set up specifically to monitor them.
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Another lorry through the barriers at Manningtree
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O L Leigh
Established Member
The CCTV is not there to monitor the crossing lights, and you certainly wouldn't have expected to see them from such a high camera angle due to the hoods that protect each lens. The correct operation of the lights and barriers are monitored automatically so that any fault with the crossing equipment would be immediately communicated to the controlling signaller.
Also I fear that you're making rather a lot about the other vehicles. The green truck on the opposite side of the road was probably already onto the crossing when the sequence started and was already clear of the stop line before our hero even arrives at the same point. The driver of the white van certainly does stop suddenly and probably has done so beyond the stop line, but crucially it stops before the barriers start to lower meaning that the crossing lights must have been operating correctly.
Just out of interest but the lone tractor unit which flashed through before the one which did the damage seems to of been of the same type/colour. I wonder whether our culprit was travelling in convoy with this unit and didn't wish to be separated. Just a thought.
paul1609
Established Member
How on earth is a busy location like this apparently allowed to have a single barrier. Somebody needs to explain risk assessments and alarp to Network Rail, Orr?
I don't understand your statement. The crossing has two barriers which cover both lanes I'm sure.
I would assume because it has always had a single barrier.
Single barrier per side of the track rather that one per lane. So 2 barriers total instead of 4.
MadCommuter
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I always remember as a kid, longing for level crossing lights to activate, just as our car approached, so we could watch the train pass through. A shame not everyone is an enthusiast.
Class 170101
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Manningtree is a full barrier Level Crossing monitored by Colchester PSB via CCTV. It is not an AHB.
dk1
Veteran Member
Its just the nature of the crossing. Brundall has exactly the same. Nothing that unusual about it.
paul1609
Established Member
My point is its intrinsically less safe than a four barrier system that lets traffic exit the crossing before the wrong side barrier is lowered.
If for reasons of location that cant be achieved I would say this type of barrier needs to be fitted with obstacle detection technology that prevents the lowering of the barrier until the crossing is clear.
If the train is slowed down or stopped by adverse signals well I'm afraid that's the nature of increasing congestion.
notlob.divad
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I would suggest that the A137 is deemed a main road. The next upstream crossing of the river is the B1029, followed by the A12. Neither are that far away in the grand scheme of things, but in order to get to them would require going on significantly smaller roads.
The mechanisms for the barriers on the far side of the road would be in a very restricted area as there is a bypass road-under-rail bridge immediately adjacent to the crossing. It may be technically feasible, but would make access more difficult if (when) required. There's nothing wrong with one barrier spanning both lanes, given a significant amount of the risk is mitigated by said underpass. There's plenty of incidents where a lorry has taken out full 4-barrier crossings with as much damage as this one.
OD would have made no difference to this incident - the Signaller was evidently aware of the obstruction as he intervened to cancel the sequence.
The solution is for drivers to honour their obligations under law and obey the big red flashing lights, as the white van managed to do (albeit late). Perhaps to impress upon such drivers who feel that it is worth the risk, the penalty for running the lights could be increased to 10 points automatically on a license, and full liability for the Material cost of barrier damage, the labour cost of the crew to replace it, and the costs incurred to NR for delay caused to trains.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
It has "obstacle protection", by the use of the two eyes of the signaller via CCTV.
If you are proposing a LIDAR system then these barriers would never close!
O L Leigh
Established Member
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this design of crossing equipment and you will find it replicated in many locations up and down the country. Unlike automatic barriers, there is no need to provide an exit route because, as has been explained up-thread, the operation of the barriers happens under the supervision of the controlling signaller who can intervene in the event of a problem or emergency.
Agreed.
dk1
Veteran Member
Why obstacle detection when its got CCTV?
Depends on timing and I don't see how that would have helped in this case. The half barrier the lorry passed first would still have come down on his trailer, and the way he swerved out to avoid the second barrier would have meant he would have hit a half barrier coming down from the opposite side as he departed. And as zwk500 said, four barrier systems are regularly ignored and demolished as well.
what’s the point in OD technology at cctv crossings?
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Here is a better stream of the same video (unclipped field of view) which makes it look even worse IMHO.
www.independent.co.uk
Footage shows lorry driver ramming level crossing barrier off its hinges
Security camera was installed just weeks before capturing incident
www.independent.co.uk
YorksLad12
Established Member
Here is a better stream of the same video (unclipped field of view) which makes it look even worse IMHO.
Footage shows lorry driver ramming level crossing barrier off its hinges
Security camera was installed just weeks before capturing incident
From that video it looks like he deliberately ran the barriers because he wasn't paying attention; he's well behind the line as they start to descend, thinks "ooh, the vehicle ahead of me has moved, I must put my phone down" then ignores the flashing reds to crash through both barriers. You really don't want to know what I think of such people.
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Mcr Warrior
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The HGV driver also looks like they have to swerve at the last moment to avoid side-swiping the van that has (just about) stopped short of the live rail lines in the bottom left of the screen.
Has the HGV driver been charged with anything yet, if so, what?
Has the HGV driver been charged with anything yet, if so, what?
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
He's probably sued Network Rail for a new air-horn and "Carlos-Fandango" spotlights?
flitwickbeds
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I still think there's something odd about this.
The white van in the bottom left appears to do a sharp brake as though the lights have only just come on. Even if they haven't and assuming they weren't on when the green lorry crossed the same line, there only 7 seconds between the back of the green lorry crossing the stop line, and the barriers starting to lower. If they only came on as the white van approached, that's only 4 seconds.
At a faster speed, albeit hitting the barrier on the way, the lorry that destroyed the gate takes 7 seconds between the front of the cab passing its stop line, and it clearing the rail line.
From the video only, one has to conclude that the time between the orange lights illuminating and the barriers starting to close is the same time as it takes a large vehicle to cross the entire crossing, at speed. And that isn't enough.
The white van in the bottom left appears to do a sharp brake as though the lights have only just come on. Even if they haven't and assuming they weren't on when the green lorry crossed the same line, there only 7 seconds between the back of the green lorry crossing the stop line, and the barriers starting to lower. If they only came on as the white van approached, that's only 4 seconds.
At a faster speed, albeit hitting the barrier on the way, the lorry that destroyed the gate takes 7 seconds between the front of the cab passing its stop line, and it clearing the rail line.
From the video only, one has to conclude that the time between the orange lights illuminating and the barriers starting to close is the same time as it takes a large vehicle to cross the entire crossing, at speed. And that isn't enough.
The vehicle in question sems to be stationary before it crosses the level crossing - does this suggest that the barriers have only just been raised from a previous train, and the lorry has decided not to wait another 2- 3 minutes or for another closure? This would help explain why the van on this side was able to stop quickly.
Bevan Price
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I sometimes wonder if it might be better to abolish flashing lights (everywhere, not just at level crossings), and replace them all by conventional traffic lights .
They mean different things.
Red traffic lights can be passed in certain circumstances, e.g. by emergency vehicles or by non-emergency vehicles that need to move out of the way of an emergency vehicle behind them.
Red flashing lights must not be passed under any circumstances unless directed by an authorised person.
O L Leigh
Established Member
That’s all supposition and guesswork. You’re assuming that the behaviour of the drivers reflects the timing of the operation of the crossing equipment, but there’s no way to prove that there’s any correlation. If you’re unsure maybe take a trip out to Manningtree and see it for yourself.
When the barriers raise after a train or trains have gone past there can often be a delay before the lights stop flashing. There can also sometimes be a random flash of the orange light. Sometimes there can even be a full starting sequence again before they switch off. This could be the signaller testing, pressing a button or a ‘quirk’ of the technology. I have no idea if this is anything like that but I could probably find dash cam footage of this sort of thing from my vehicles.
The idea that a train may have just gone and the barriers had only been up for a short period of time is perhaps something that could be checked. I have known lights continue to flash and then go straight to the closing sequence again for another train without ever stopping flashing apart from a short orange in the middle which could be missed. If there was a an anomaly with the lights sequence it would explain why there were issues with drivers at that point but it DOES NOT make the actions to drive across acceptable.
The idea that a train may have just gone and the barriers had only been up for a short period of time is perhaps something that could be checked. I have known lights continue to flash and then go straight to the closing sequence again for another train without ever stopping flashing apart from a short orange in the middle which could be missed. If there was a an anomaly with the lights sequence it would explain why there were issues with drivers at that point but it DOES NOT make the actions to drive across acceptable.
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