Day Ranger / Rover Tickets

Mal75756 · 4 Aug 2020

Hi Guys
I have been looking into a day out using a Day Rover ticket, based near Doncaster I have been looking on the National Rail website and also Northern website. However I cannot see very clear information on what is available, does anyone know of a better website showing Day Rover tickets preferable incorporating the South Yorkshire (Doncaster) area. Thanks guys

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NorthOxonian · 4 Aug 2020

Mal75756 said:
Hi Guys
I have been looking into a day out using a Day Rover ticket, based near Doncaster I have been looking on the National Rail website and also Northern website. However I cannot see very clear information on what is available, does anyone know of a better website showing Day Rover tickets preferable incorporating the South Yorkshire (Doncaster) area. Thanks guys

I use railrover.org to do research on such tickets. Bear in mind most day tickets are called "rangers" - the term "rover" usually refers to longer period tickets, often covering a wider area. If you use the search bar in the top right, you can select a station such as "{Doncaster}" and it will display a list of valid tickets.

If you're looking for a rail rover or ranger ticket you'll find them all here.

The GB Rail Rover Guide covers the whole of England, Scotland and Wales so whether you're looking for a multi-day rover ticket or just a day ranger you'll find all the information you need here.

For each rover/ranger there's descriptions, prices and general unformation as well as easy to read route-maps. Find tickets by either browsing the "Ranger Finder" opposite or use the search box above to see which rover and ranger tickets are valid at a particular station.

From a cursory glance, there are very few valid at Doncaster itself - mostly just the South Yorkshire ranger and the Lincolnshire day ranger (not very useful since you have to go via Gainsborough). But there are a lot more options if you're willing to also get a return to another station. The East Yorkshire Round Robin allows a day travelling on a circle around York, Scarborough, and Hull, and the North East Round Robin covers both the Settle and Carlisle and Tyne Valley lines. I would imagine if you wish to access a particular ranger near you, someone on here can advise a good ticketing combination - since you can typically enter a ranger's area of validity in a few different ways, there are usually a few different options.

superjohn · 4 Aug 2020

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - rail rover and ranger tickets

How to find rail rover and railway ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

railrover.org

Is your friend for this kind of thing. You can select a station in the top right corner and it will show you all the rovers you can use there.

Mal75756 · 4 Aug 2020

Thank you guys, you came up with just what I was hoping. I can now spend some time researching. But agree I may have to do a return ticket to another station but not a bad thing if it improves my options.

Mcr Warrior · 4 Aug 2020

My favourite Day Ranger is probably the "Lakes Day Ranger" but you first have to get up to Lancaster before you enter the area that it's valid from.

_toommm_ · 4 Aug 2020

One little tit bit for you if you’re using a ~~return ticket~~ ‘normal’ train ticket and a rover - the train does not need to call at the station at which the validity of one ticket ends and the validity of the other ticket starts; your train merely needs to be booked (planned) to pass through said station.

This not only works with rovers, but also a ticket like the South Yorkshire Travelmaster, all Rovers and Rangers, and Season Tickets (as long as at least one of the tickets you possess is one of the aforementioned few).

An example close to you is if you were travelling say Doncaster to Scunthorpe, you could use a South Yorkshire Travelmaster as far as Thorne South, then another ticket from there to Scunthorpe. You could use this on the Northern stopping services, but also the fast TransPennine who don’t stop at Thorne South (bar twice a day).

EDIT: If questioned, this is covered by the National Rail Conditions of Travel, section 14.2:

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

(Edited for clarity)

Mal75756 · 5 Aug 2020

_toommm_ said:
One little tit bit for you if you’re using a ~~return ticket~~ ‘normal’ train ticket and a rover - the train does not need to call at the station at which the validity of one ticket ends and the validity of the other ticket starts; your train merely needs to be booked (planned) to pass through said station.

This not only works with rovers, but also a ticket like the South Yorkshire Travelmaster, all Rovers and Rangers, and Season Tickets (as long as at least one of the tickets you possess is one of the aforementioned few).

An example close to you is if you were travelling say Doncaster to Scunthorpe, you could use a South Yorkshire Travelmaster as far as Thorne South, then another ticket from there to Scunthorpe. You could use this on the Northern stopping services, but also the fast TransPennine who don’t stop at Thorne South (bar twice a day).

EDIT: If questioned, this is covered by the National Rail Conditions of Travel, section 14.2:

(Edited for clarity)

thank you for that, that is something I didnt realise.

Llandudno · 5 Aug 2020

_toommm_ said:
One little tit bit for you if you’re using a ~~return ticket~~ ‘normal’ train ticket and a rover - the train does not need to call at the station at which the validity of one ticket ends and the validity of the other ticket starts; your train merely needs to be booked (planned) to pass through said station.

This not only works with rovers, but also a ticket like the South Yorkshire Travelmaster, all Rovers and Rangers, and Season Tickets (as long as at least one of the tickets you possess is one of the aforementioned few).

An example close to you is if you were travelling say Doncaster to Scunthorpe, you could use a South Yorkshire Travelmaster as far as Thorne South, then another ticket from there to Scunthorpe. You could use this on the Northern stopping services, but also the fast TransPennine who don’t stop at Thorne South (bar twice a day).

EDIT: If questioned, this is covered by the National Rail Conditions of Travel, section 14.2:

(Edited for clarity)

Although why you want to go to Scunthorpe though!

The TfGM Wayfarer is a good example you can buy a day return to Grindleford and then use the TfGM Wayfarer to get to Manchester and beyond, valid on EMR and Transpennine Express services even though they don’t stop at Grindleford.

Just a word of warning though, Sheffield station booking office inexplicably will not sell you a Wayfarer ticket, although Chesterfield will even though the Wayfarer is not valid from there either!

_toommm_ · 5 Aug 2020

Llandudno said:
Although why you want to go to Scunthorpe though!

The TfGM Wayfarer is a good example you can buy a day return to Grindleford and then use the TfGM Wayfarer to get to Manchester and beyond, valid on EMR and Transpennine Express services even though they don’t stop at Grindleford.

Just a word of warning though, Sheffield station booking office inexplicably will not sell you a Wayfarer ticket, although Chesterfield will even though the Wayfarer is not valid from there either!

I certainly wouldn’t!

It was just an example with the OP(presumably) being based in South Yorkshire, and the TravelMaster I used to use everyday.

rg177 · 5 Aug 2020

Llandudno said:
Although why you want to go to Scunthorpe though!

The TfGM Wayfarer is a good example you can buy a day return to Grindleford and then use the TfGM Wayfarer to get to Manchester and beyond, valid on EMR and Transpennine Express services even though they don’t stop at Grindleford.

Just a word of warning though, Sheffield station booking office inexplicably will not sell you a Wayfarer ticket, although Chesterfield will even though the Wayfarer is not valid from there either!

Ah yes, Sheffield ticket office and their best ever "Greater Manchester propaganda says we can't" reason for refusing to sell me a TfGM Wayfarer.

If the OP wants to go for that option and can't get a ticket office to do it- the conductor on TPE was more than happy to oblige in that instance.

_toommm_ · 5 Aug 2020

rg177 said:
Ah yes, Sheffield ticket office and their best ever "Greater Manchester propaganda says we can't" reason for refusing to sell me a TfGM Wayfarer.

If the OP wants to go for that option and can't get a ticket office to do it- the conductor on TPE was more than happy to oblige in that instance.

On a similar vein a few years ago: *asks for a Cheshire Day Ranger* ‘Cheshire? This is South Yorkshire mate! *snide laugh*’

S&CLER · 5 Aug 2020

Llandudno said:
Although why you want to go to Scunthorpe though!

The TfGM Wayfarer is a good example you can buy a day return to Grindleford and then use the TfGM Wayfarer to get to Manchester and beyond, valid on EMR and Transpennine Express services even though they don’t stop at Grindleford.

Just a word of warning though, Sheffield station booking office inexplicably will not sell you a Wayfarer ticket, although Chesterfield will even though the Wayfarer is not valid from there either!

Are you sure about this? I thought the idea of setting the boundary of the Wayfarer at Grindleford was to keep people using these tickets off TPE trains. I'm amazed at the attitude of Sheffield ticket office, as I've never had any trouble buying GM Conc Wayfarers at Southport. Occasionally they say I need to book to Appley Bridge as that is the first station in the GM ticketing area (true enough), but the map in the publicity makes it clear that you can use it from Parbold. As the difference in cost is minimal, I buy a day return to Appley Bridge just for a quiet life.

Ah, just seen toomm's earlier post and his reference to the national conditions, so you are right.

Harpers Tate · 6 Aug 2020

_toommm_ said:
....a ticket like the South Yorkshire Travelmaster....
.this is covered by the National Rail Conditions of Travel, section 14.2

Just a word of warning. I don't think I'd rely on the NRCoT in this specific case. The reason is that the validity of a TravelMaster on trains contains a specific condition (3.5) viz:
3.5. You may only use a Product as part payment for a journey that goes beyond the zones specified in 3.1 up to the last stop, or station, in that zone that You could alight from the service at.
3.5.1. You cannot use a Product as part payment, or in combination with any other ticket, for a rail journey where the service You travel on does not stop at the station from which You have a further ticket for travel to or from. This is a specific exclusion under s.14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

johnnychips · 6 Aug 2020

Harpers Tate said:
Just a word of warning. I don't think I'd rely on the NRCoT in this specific case. The reason is that the validity of a TravelMaster on trains contains a specific condition (3.5) viz:
3.5. You may only use a Product as part payment for a journey that goes beyond the zones specified in 3.1 up to the last stop, or station, in that zone that You could alight from the service at.
3.5.1. You cannot use a Product as part payment, or in combination with any other ticket, for a rail journey where the service You travel on does not stop at the station from which You have a further ticket for travel to or from. This is a specific exclusion under s.14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

The often-quoted example of this is that you would not be able to buy a ticket from South Elmsall to Wakefield and use it with your Travelmaster to board a non-stop LNER service between Doncaster and Wakefield.

LNW-GW Joint · 6 Aug 2020

I always thought the South Pennine Day Ranger was good value - choice of three trans-Pennine routes between Leeds/Sheffield and Manchester.
From Doncaster you'd have to get to Wakefield or Sheffield/Meadowhall on another ticket first.
https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.n...s-rovers/South-Pennines-Day-Ranger_Map_A4.pdf

I've bought Lincolnshire Day Rangers at Chester before without any trouble.
It's stations/crews in PTE areas which seem to have a different set of rules in mind.

_toommm_ · 6 Aug 2020

S&CLER said:
Are you sure about this? I thought the idea of setting the boundary of the Wayfarer at Grindleford was to keep people using these tickets off TPE trains. I'm amazed at the attitude of Sheffield ticket office, as I've never had any trouble buying GM Conc Wayfarers at Southport. Occasionally they say I need to book to Appley Bridge as that is the first station in the GM ticketing area (true enough), but the map in the publicity makes it clear that you can use it from Parbold. As the difference in cost is minimal, I buy a day return to Appley Bridge just for a quiet life.

Ah, just seen toomm's earlier post and his reference to the national conditions, so you are right.

TPE are normally rather good with splits of this nature in my experience. I’ve only been told twice it’s not valid

Harpers Tate said:
Just a word of warning. I don't think I'd rely on the NRCoT in this specific case. The reason is that the validity of a TravelMaster on trains contains a specific condition (3.5) viz:
3.5. You may only use a Product as part payment for a journey that goes beyond the zones specified in 3.1 up to the last stop, or station, in that zone that You could alight from the service at.
3.5.1. You cannot use a Product as part payment, or in combination with any other ticket, for a rail journey where the service You travel on does not stop at the station from which You have a further ticket for travel to or from. This is a specific exclusion under s.14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

I was told to ignore that when I lived in SY and used that product everyday, as the wording was out of date.

Haywain · 6 Aug 2020

_toommm_ said:
I was told to ignore that when I lived in SY and used that product everyday, as the wording was out of date.

The wording is out of date because of the reference to NRCoC but it is likely that is unintentional.

johnnychips said:
The often-quoted example of this is that you would not be able to buy a ticket from South Elmsall to Wakefield and use it with your Travelmaster to board a non-stop LNER service between Doncaster and Wakefield.

This is specifically covered by the general validity of the Travelmaster product:

TravelMaster Terms & Conditions said:
1.6.3. Rail – Rail valid Products are valid on services operated by Cross Country Trains, East Midlands Railway, Transpennine Express and Northern Rail.

robbeech · 6 Aug 2020

_toommm_ said:
I was told to ignore that when I lived in SY and used that product everyday, as the wording was out of date.

It refers To the conditions of carriage and has been there since that document was valid so could be considered out of date. However, with nothing to say otherwise I think it would be difficult to argue it if you had to.
Although thinking about it, wasn’t that section numbered differently in the the conditions of carriage?

_toommm_ · 6 Aug 2020

I used to use the TravelMaster everyday for 4 years, and like I say I never had any problems.

As for the reference to the NRCoC, surely that is only in the TravelMaster T&Cs because PTE products were excluded from this type of split before, but now they’re included in the NRCoT.

Mal75756 · 6 Aug 2020

LNW-GW Joint said:
I always thought the South Pennine Day Ranger was good value - choice of three trans-Pennine routes between Leeds/Sheffield and Manchester.
From Doncaster you'd have to get to Wakefield or Sheffield/Meadowhall on another ticket first.
https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.n...s-rovers/South-Pennines-Day-Ranger_Map_A4.pdf

I've bought Lincolnshire Day Rangers at Chester before without any trouble.
It's stations/crews in PTE areas which seem to have a different set of rules in mind.

I have just checked out the map and I agree it would be a good option. Spend some time in Sheffield before going to Manchester and maybe back via Leeds and then to Sheffield for the return journey. Thanks this is a good option, I take it you can buy the ranger ticket from Sheffield.

Harpers Tate · 6 Aug 2020

The same condition - differently worded - has always (to my recollection) been part of TravelMaster. It used to say something along the lines of:
Valid as far as the last station within the area at which the train you are on calls.

I take that to mean (for example) that if you are on a TPE service headed for Cleethorpes, your ticket's validity ends at Doncaster (and not, say, at Thorne South). Hence there would be a gap in validity if you only had a ticket forward from Thorne South.

And GNER/LNER/etc has always (again, to my recollection) been specifically excluded as well.

route101 · 6 Aug 2020

Day rangers are good for covering new lines etc , theres some areas that dont have any day rangers , can be annoying.

Mcr Warrior · 6 Aug 2020

route101 said:
Day rangers are good for covering new lines etc , theres some areas that dont have any day rangers , can be annoying.

Probably have been useful in the past in generating additional revenue in (relatively) lightly loaded areas.

Any thoughts as to areas where the introduction of a new day ranger product might actually be possible?

route101 · 6 Aug 2020

Mcr Warrior said:
Probably have been useful in the past in generating additional revenue in (relatively) lightly loaded areas.

Any thoughts as to areas where the introduction of a new day ranger product might actually be possible?

Central belt between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Some areas just outside the Oyster zones.

route101 · 6 Aug 2020

Mcr Warrior said:
Probably have been useful in the past in generating additional revenue in (relatively) lightly loaded areas.

Any thoughts as to areas where the introduction of a new day ranger product might actually be possible?

Central belt between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Some areas just outside the Oyster zones.

Mcr Warrior · 6 Aug 2020

route101 said:
Central belt between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Could be that Glasgow -> Edinburgh was, in normal times, considered to have enough patronage, certainly if travelling via Falkirk High.

Llandudno · 6 Aug 2020

There are some excellent rover tickets in north Wales that include bus travel, sadly there is little or no marketing of these products (even in non Covid times), even many rail and bus staff are unaware of the availability of the different travel zones.

I tried to buy one on board the train at Deganwy last summer, the guard told me to buy one from Llandudno Junction ticket office, during the train’s dwell time at the station.

Needless to say, these tickets cannot be purchased on TfW station vending machines.

Personally, I think there should be a straight forward off peak rail only option, maybe £29 from Holyhead to Chester, including Llandudno-Bleanau, Bidston-Wrexham and Chester-Wrexham

AM9 · 6 Aug 2020

johnnychips said:
The often-quoted example of this is that you would not be able to buy a ticket from South Elmsall to Wakefield and use it with your Travelmaster to board a non-stop LNER service between Doncaster and Wakefield.

There was an exception to that last August. I had a SY Travelmaster ticket and purchased a South Elmshall to Leeds return on the Sheffield to Doncaster train. This was on the earliest days of class 331 operation there by Northern. The diagrammed unit failed at Doncaster, and eventually another was wheeled-up but it ran non-stop from Doncaster to Leeds to catch up.
That was a day that LNW-GW Joint and LDECRexile will also remember.

OliverH68 · 6 Aug 2020

route101 said:
Day rangers are good for covering new lines etc , theres some areas that dont have any day rangers , can be annoying.

Exactly this - this is what I use rangers/rovers for. I do agree there's a couple of gaps in the map for rangers - particularly for the Essex branches (unless you have an ALR, of course).

Haywain · 6 Aug 2020

AM9 said:
There was an exception to that last August. I had a SY Travelmaster ticket and purchased a South Elmshall to Leeds return on the Sheffield to Doncaster train. This was on the earliest days of class 331 operation there by Northern. The diagrammed unit failed at Doncaster, and eventually another was wheeled-up but it ran non-stop from Doncaster to Leeds to catch up.
That was a day that LNW-GW Joint and LDECRexile will also remember.

How is that an exception to the rule quoted?

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