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Longest serving driver?

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Same guy I suspect.

Not sure how long he’s been driving, though. He started off firing steam locos, I seem to remember.

Either way, the guy has been doing metro work since before man landed on the moon and is still going strong, as far as I know. Just imagine that for a second.... Six decades of Orpy - Vics. o_O

That deserves some kind of medal!

funnily enough I was at Orpy for a PN last weekand had a look at the seniority list and when I saw the 60’s on there I couldn’t help but wanna meet this guy. Small world sometimes whose on this forum and where from
 
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Wyrleybart

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I believe there is a driver at Carnforth who is aged either 77 or 78, is as fit as a fiddle and works steam, diesel, tampers and probably their newly acquired electric too.

Really nice bloke and absolutely amazing knowledge
 

irish_rail

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No some TOCs wont allow past state pension age. AWC and XC being 2 of them. I believe two at AWC tried to challenge it in court but failed miserably. Ite called ERJA or something I think
 

matt_world2004

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There must come a point with long service.particularly on the lucrative BR pension schemes where you can make more money staying home rather than going to work.
 

ComUtoR

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Thats the one. Aslef supports it I believe so expect it to come to a depot near u shortly!

When it comes in at my TOC (I have no doubts it will), half the coastal guys will retire ! Maybe thats why we are recruiting so heavily...
 

Ben Bow

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Up until around 2 years ago, retiring wasn't on my "agenda" at all. I couldn't rise to the dizzy heights of 50+ years service, I joined too late for that, but I had 30 years on the footplate in my sights. But since the May '18 timetable fiasco, and other events since, I've never seen the railway in such a dire position and so badly led, and that was before COVID. Now, I can't wait to get out, I'd retire tomorrow if I could, personally I find it very, very sad - I still love the job, but not what the railway has become.
 

theironroad

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While EJRA definitely has some good intentions and some merit, it doesn't suit everyone.

While they're maybe plenty of people who have come from the military or police or other sectors with great pensions and some railway staff who will still do enough years to get a decent pension, many won't.

A lot of staff join the railway these days in their middle age, maybe 40s etc and have come from jobs that had no or very little pension provision. Others end up in messy divorces with future financial liabilities. These people are being forced out of a job they may have come to love and are medically fit to continue in and retire on a railway pension which isn't massive either and may be worse in the future. So the railway chucks them out and they may basically have to try and find a job in their late 60s because their pension using sufficient and they've not managed to pay off the mortgage.

If someone wants out at 55 and can afford to, that's great, if someone needs to continue until 72 then that's cool tbh.

Unfortunately for newer staff, just like with safeguarded travel facilities, many of the people who make these proposals and push for them will happily retire with full raiilway pensions and travel facilities for life for themselves and their dependents.

People's circumstances are different.
 

irish_rail

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While EJRA definitely has some good intentions and some merit, it doesn't suit everyone.

While they're maybe plenty of people who have come from the military or police or other sectors with great pensions and some railway staff who will still do enough years to get a decent pension, many won't.

A lot of staff join the railway these days in their middle age, maybe 40s etc and have come from jobs that had no or very little pension provision. Others end up in messy divorces with future financial liabilities. These people are being forced out of a job they may have come to love and are medically fit to continue in and retire on a railway pension which isn't massive either and may be worse in the future. So the railway chucks them out and they may basically have to try and find a job in their late 60s because their pension using sufficient and they've not managed to pay off the mortgage.

If someone wants out at 55 and can afford to, that's great, if someone needs to continue until 72 then that's cool tbh.

Unfortunately for newer staff, just like with safeguarded travel facilities, many of the people who make these proposals and push for them will happily retire with full raiilway pensions and travel facilities for life for themselves and their dependents.

People's circumstances are different.
I'm not convinced people should be looking for work in their mid to late 60s. Not as long as youth unemployment exists. Some need to learn to live within their means. Frankly no body should be driving a train at the age of 70, no matter how fit they may seem
 

InOban

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It may seem counter intuitive but these people still working after the pension age are putting money into the economy which increases the employment of young people.

And if people shouldn't be driving trains at 70, they shouldn't be driving cars either.
 

Evolution

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I think if a driver is medically fit and able to meet the requirements of the job (medically and physically) then they should be allowed to continue for as long as they desire. I doubt I’d want to be on the footplate into my late 60s or 70s, however, if people enjoy the job or have financial obligations to meet they should be allowed to continue.

Surely these drivers can just go straight to another TOC if they are forced to retire at a certain age?

I’ve a good 25+ years to go so not something I need to think about anytime soon ;)
 
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baz962

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I'm not convinced people should be looking for work in their mid to late 60s. Not as long as youth unemployment exists. Some need to learn to live within their means. Frankly no body should be driving a train at the age of 70, no matter how fit they may seem
A bit harsh. I was 48 and a bit at qualifying. I will only have paid off my child support in two months and another two years ish to clear other debt. I will be hoping to get a mortgage again , at around 52-53. I want to retire at 65-66. If the railway kick me out at 62 , I will need a new job , I reckon.
 

Kneedown

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There's one Driver at our place must be in with a shout. He's still in his forties but he works that much overtime!:lol:
 

greatkingrat

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No-one can be kicked out at 62. The EJRA only applies once you reach state pension age (currently 66 and increasing), rather than the default railway pension age of 62 (60 for protected staff).
 

greatkingrat

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There's one Driver at our place must be in with a shout. He's still in his forties but he works that much overtime!:lol:

If you count the total number of shifts worked, there must be quite a few drivers who have worked the equivalent of 50+ years!
 

43066

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While EJRA definitely has some good intentions and some merit, it doesn't suit everyone.

While they're maybe plenty of people who have come from the military or police or other sectors with great pensions and some railway staff who will still do enough years to get a decent pension, many won't.

A lot of staff join the railway these days in their middle age, maybe 40s etc and have come from jobs that had no or very little pension provision. Others end up in messy divorces with future financial liabilities. These people are being forced out of a job they may have come to love and are medically fit to continue in and retire on a railway pension which isn't massive either and may be worse in the future. So the railway chucks them out and they may basically have to try and find a job in their late 60s because their pension using sufficient and they've not managed to pay off the mortgage.

If someone wants out at 55 and can afford to, that's great, if someone needs to continue until 72 then that's cool tbh.

Unfortunately for newer staff, just like with safeguarded travel facilities, many of the people who make these proposals and push for them will happily retire with full raiilway pensions and travel facilities for life for themselves and their dependents.

People's circumstances are different.

Totally agree.

It’s not as if there’s any shortage of trainee vacancies. The driving grade has a bulge of people nearing traditional retirement age anyway, many of whom can and do choose go early because of the generous pension, and they’ve long since paid off mortgages etc.

The EJRA from what I’ve read about it is a bit of a minefield, and I’d be surprised if many TOCs implement it. Surprise surprise ASLEF support it :rolleyes: - something which will screw over longstanding members, who have paid into the union for decades, and who perhaps can’t afford to retire due to their personal circumstances.

Let’s face it a lot of people can now expect to live into their eighties and nineties and it’s getting increasingly unrealistic for many to retire in their early sixties.
 
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O L Leigh

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EJRA is something that sticks in my throat, and the fact that it came from the union and not the company really makes me furious. I've heard ASLEF's official and unofficial lines on EJRA and many other justifications besides, but I don't buy a single one of them. I've had discussions and even arguments about it, including one with our company council rep who told me that it was his job to "sell" EJRA to us yet couldn't produce cogent answers to my questions and ended up saying in exasperation "Well if you don't like it, don't vote for it" before vetoing any further conversation on the matter.

Effectively what it boils down to is legally protected age discrimination. For a union to take this route when it stands foursquare against all other types of discrimination boggles the mind. The law allows a worker to decide for him/herself when they take retirement and ASLEF, a trades union body that claims to represent the interests of a certain group of workers, is setting out to remove that right. If your colleagues vote EJRA through, when you get towards state pension age you will be served notice by your employer and you will be retired, something that a few of my colleagues who did vote it through were surprised to learn after the event (I think they thought that it wouldn't actually work like that).

I'm interested to hear that EJRA on the railway has already been tested in the courts and wonder on what grounds the actions were brought. My own personal feeling is that ASLEF hasn't really made a very good case for it and is relying solely on the unthinking herd mentality of a lot of their membership to get it through. As it's name suggests, it's employment justified retirement age which means that there should be some aspect of the job that you do that means that as you age your ability to discharge your duties diminishes to the point where you are no longer able to do it. ASLEF's official line on it doesn't really address this and focuses instead on dignity for ageing workers, saving them from the aggravation of having to prove their fitness and competence, integrity of the pension scheme, workforce planning and diversity in the workforce (something that is outside the union's ambit anyway, as recruitment is driven by the employers).

The reason we're not seeing EJRA rolling out across the entire industry is, I understand, because ASLEF themselves realise that this is a hot potato and that it could lead to claims for age discrimination. That being the case, each company's council has been instructed to raise the issue but to expect that not all companies will want to pursue the policy.

For myself, I'm now operating a "three strikes and out" policy with ASLEF and I'm already up to two strikes, of which EJRA is one. I'm just waiting for them to pull one more daft stunt like this and I'll be off. It does annoy me that there is so much uncritical thinking among the grade when it comes to the union's recommendations and that there are so many who are happy to swallow their dogma and just go along with it "because ASLEF recommends acceptance, and they represent me". That we have such monstrous injustices as EJRA within the industry is due solely to there having been more people vote yes than no. Of course I understand that's how democracy works, but I do wish that there was more critical appraisal before casting a ballot.
 

43066

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The reason we're not seeing EJRA rolling out across the entire industry is, I understand, because ASLEF themselves realise that this is a hot potato and that it could lead to claims for age discrimination. That being the case, each company's council has been instructed to raise the issue but to expect that not all companies will want to pursue the policy.

Yes, from my (limited) reading on it there’s a need for the measure to be objectively justified, proportionate to the aim being pursued etc. The threshold to be met is quite high and likely to involve a lot of expensive legal advice to get it right (and, as you say, a risk of claims being brought anyway).

It’s basically directly discriminatory social engineering. It absolutely beggars belief that ASLEF supports this and it’s another nail in the coffin of our union, frankly.
 

bramling

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Totally agree.

It’s not as if there’s any shortage of trainee vacancies. The driving grade has a bulge of people nearing traditional retirement age anyway, many of whom can and do choose go early because of the generous pension, and they’ve long since paid off mortgages etc.

The EJRA from what I’ve read about it is a bit of a minefield, and I’d be surprised if many TOCs implement it. Surprise surprise ASLEF support it :rolleyes: - something which will screw over longstanding members, who have paid into the union for decades, and who perhaps can’t afford to retire due to their personal circumstances.

Let’s face it a lot of people can now expect to live into their eighties and nineties and it’s getting increasingly unrealistic for many to retire in their early sixties.

I must admit I do find it surprising that many would *want* to drive past mid-60s, unless there were specific financial pressures forcing them to do so. Shift work is hardly healthy, so unless someone's managed to find some sort of sweet-spot where they manage to tame the extreme shifts element of the job, personally I'm not sure it's a good idea -- especially when railway pensions can often pay as much money as being at work!

I've certainly seen a fair share of people who have worked right up until 66-67, had their leaving do, and then seemingly next minute the notice goes up in the office to say they've sadly passed away.

Personally, I'd only contemplate working past 60 if on some kind of job share to be honest.
 

Wyrleybart

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No some TOCs wont allow past state pension age. AWC and XC being 2 of them. I believe two at AWC tried to challenge it in court but failed miserably. Ite called ERJA or something I think

I think you are incorrect or misled.
An XC Longsight driver retired in the last year or so who I think was aged 70 or 71.
 

irish_rail

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I think you are incorrect or misled.
An XC Longsight driver retired in the last year or so who I think was aged 70 or 71.
Ok well definitely 100 percent sure AWC have it, thought XC had it too, possibly I was wrong, or the gent in question somehow slipped the net quite possibly because ERJA came in when he was already past retirement age.
 

InOban

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FYI truck drivers have a medical every five years from 40 - 60 and then every year after. I can't see why train drivers should be any different.
 

theironroad

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Under the train driver licencing scheme which covers all mainline drivers, medicals are every 3 years under age 55 and then annually after 55
 

bunnahabhain

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The best one I can recall is a driver who has sadly passed away now, we were chatting during a turnaround and I said I volunteered on the Great Central Railway. He said "f**k me the last time I was on that line I was firing Black 5s out of Neasden!". I think he went over 55 years service.
 
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