There's no room to socially distance by my wheelie bins, but masks aren't mandatory there.
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UK face coverings discussion
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bramling
Veteran Member
All I can say is I am really starting to see how it was that certain unsavoury political regimes last century were able to garner public support.
Thankfully I think our current government is too much of a shower for that to be too much of a threat, however it’s still highly unpleasant.
A bit of fear is all that’s required to turn some people completely irrational. Or, perhaps they were inherently irrational in the first place but the structure of normal life kept a lid on it?
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
I'm not really interested in political history so not too sure what you're referring to here... Tbh I wasn't even thought of last century! (I was born in 2002, btw)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The Government is not (currently) mandating masks in any outdoor space in the UK, or was the OP talking about Italy?
None of us were alive when this happened but I'm sure you will have learnt about it at school....
However I am not convinced such comparisons are helpful.
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
I had lunch at the pub earlier today, and I did actually see a few customers wearing masks - I still have no idea how they were eating/drinking.
Hopefully Whitty and Hancock don't get any ideas, mind.
bramling
Veteran Member
I don’t know, it’s a lesson from history which we should never forget, ever. In that instance it was economic depression (which is of course also something likely to come attached with our current crisis), however it could have just as easily been fear.
I agree it’s probably best to leave it at that, however it’s something to keep in the mind when we see how some people are starting to behave.
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Occams razor would suggest the simpler reason is just that they don't work.
...which is why for example, sitting on a quiet platform at Grantham station, there was no way I was going to be wearing my face covering.
Was at a restaurant earlier and the manager came out to shout at us to remind us about social distancing. A few people actually laughed, others just didn't move. I suspect between Grantham station and the restaurant queue, I know where the virus is more likely to spread.
Freightmaster
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SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Masks are not compulsory outdoors neither in the UK (except railway and bus stations) nor in Italy (except areas where social distancing of 1m can't be followed).
In Italy, masks in outdoor places at all times used to be compulsory in the region of Lombardy / Lombardia (yes that's right, the worst affected Italian region), but as of the 15th of July, they are no longer required outdoors. (with the exception of areas where social distancing of 1m can't be followed).
OK
OK, so not all outdoor spaces then?
OK, but I thought you said.....
Right....... going back to masks outdoors??.....
Staff are exempt (in England anyway). As a fellow occupier of the autism spectrum I sympathise because this makes no logical sense to me, but the law is what it is.
The government, the TOCs, and the media are very good at spreading incorrect information about mask requirements and do not need further assistance from this forum in the form of posts such as the above. As of this moment in time face coverings are required to be worn by those not exempt in outdoor transport stations in Scotland and in outdoor rail stations managed by TfL or one of its subsidiaries.
I fear very strongly that there is a “boiling frog” situation happening here and in another week or two we will start to see further curtailment of civil liberties and masks required in English law at outdoor stations, open air markets, and “busy streets” in the same style as Paris brought in on Friday.
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In which case you are almost certainly exempt from wearing a face covering yourself. Indeed, if you consider that it would cause you extreme distress to do so, you ARE exempt.
The lack of official documentation makes complete sense. Not everyone who is exempt will have a diagnosable condition. Furthermore, if everyone who wished to claim an exemption was forced to visit their GP, Drs’ practices would quickly become overloaded at a time when many serious conditions are going untreated.
Note that generic exemption certificates/badges etc. are available from various sources, but the government’s own guidance states that these are *not* required. It should be sufficient in every case to state that you’re exempt, with no requirement to explain why. You should only ever be asked about this by someone in a position of authority.
I understand why you’re concerned about vigilantes. But I would point out that, as someone who is also exempt, I have had no issues over the last few weeks having done a fair bit of travelling on public transport, and visiting many businesses. That said, I accept this largely depends on the individual.
The reasons staff are exempt are clear, if you think about it. They are working for extended periods on shop floors, and have no choice but to be at work.
(At both @MattA7 and @island) wouldn’t your ire be better directed at the government for introducing this requirement despite very weak (at best) evidence supporting face coverings?
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RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
The reasons for staff not wearing face coverings would be clear... if it wasn't mandated in Scotland!
That can be explained by the Scottish government defaulting to doing everything more aggressively than Westminster, just to differentiate themselves. It’s entirely motivated by Nicola Sturgeon’s obsession with Scottish independence. It’s purely about politics.
The reason people gererally don'r wear masks in pubs is that they need to take them off to eat and drink.
You could have a law which says that you must wear a mask, and only take it off when you are sipping your beer or putting food in your mouth, but that would mean that people are constantly fiddling with their masks, thus rendering them pointless.
Measures such as hand sanitising, social distancing, table service, contact tracing and screens are the mitigation measures for pubs which help to reduce the spread of the virus.
That may be the case (and, by the way, I'm against anyone being forced wear a mask) but do you accept how stupid that looks and undermines the apparent severity of the situation?
"There's a deadly killer virus on the loose, everybody must wear a mask - well not everybody, some people must wear a mask against the deadly killer virus. Honest, it'll be OK."
"Wear a mask against the deadly killer virus or be fined £100 by a police officer who isn't wearing a mask. No, no, that's OK, really. Yes, I know we said there was a deadly killer virus and everyone must wear a mask, but ..... Look, just wear a mask and look scared, OK?"
It's just more of the same illogical rubbish that doesn't make sense
Yes absolutely. Just like the rest of the response to the “deadly killer virus*” the whole mask scenario is absolutely farcical. It would be funny if it wasn’t so damaging.
*from the response, you'd think we were dealing with Ebola, rather than something that isn’t much worse than flu.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
How many people are struggling to wear masks in this unprecidented hot weather?
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Got to admit, I agree with you. The only reason why I support masks is because during this emergency, they are key in reducing the infection rate and going back to the 2019 normal.
But the 2019 normal was: we're about to be overrun by coronavirus.
We’ve seen absolutely no evidence of this and, whilst I believe they are likely to reduce transmission to some degree, I don’t believe it’ll make a significant difference given how they are (mis)used and that they can be made from tea towels and other inadequate materials.
I certainly don’t believe they are key in getting things back to normal, both Scotland and England have seen a rise in infections since they were introduced in shops.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Must have been people not wearing them properly maybe? Idk
Anyway, I'm pretty sure I stated on this forum many pieces of evidence to suggest why masks are key.
Given that even scientists and the WHO aren’t convinced by them - I’d be very interested in reading them if you could share?
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Nah - it was something we absolutely enjoyed and can't wait for it to happen again...
It wasn’t without it’s faults, but it was a long shot better than this.
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