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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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Class 170101

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A0wen said:
Which presumably is more to do with stopping patterns and linespeed than anything else. There are 7 intermediate stops on an Ipswich - Cambridge service - assume 2 mins per stop there's almost 15 mins of the 1h 20m journey time. Even a 'fast' service would have at least 3 - Newmarket, Bury and Stowmarket. That would gain 10 mins - anything else would have to come from linespeed improvements, currently between 40 and 75 mph. Maybe increasing it to 90mph would improve matters slightly, but that probably depends on pathing around the freights along the line.
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Is Stowmarket that important in relation to Cambridge? I would argue the least important of the three stops mentioned but would come before any of the other stations not mentioned.

There is also probably some gain to be made in journey times due to the new trains that doesn't look to have been exploited yet.
 
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A0wen

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Class 170101 said:
Is Stowmarket that important in relation to Cambridge? I would argue the least important of the three stops mentioned but would come before any of the other stations not mentioned.
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Little to gain by not stopping there as the freights which don't stop will be slower and every other passenger service does stop there.

Class 170101 said:
There is also probably some gain to be made in journey times due to the new trains that doesn't look to have been exploited yet.
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Not sure you're right. Current services take about 1h20m of which about 15 mins will be the intermediate stops (assume 2 mins stationary) so you're looking at about an hour to cover 55 miles on a line with a linespeed of 75mph. Better acceleration and deceleration might gain a couple of minutes here and there, but compare it to Norwich - Ely which is a similar length, fewer intermediate stops and a 90mph linespeed and that's taking about 50 minutes.

I suspect linespeed is where gains will be made because the new trains will still be limited by a 75mph linespeed.
 
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Class 170101

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A0wen said:
Not sure you're right. Current services take about 1h20m of which about 15 mins will be the intermediate stops (assume 2 mins stationary) so you're looking at about an hour to cover 55 miles on a line with a linespeed of 75mph. Better acceleration and deceleration might gain a couple of minutes here and there, but compare it to Norwich - Ely which is a similar length, fewer intermediate stops and a 90mph linespeed and that's taking about 50 minutes.

I suspect linespeed is where gains will be made because the new trains will still be limited by a 75mph linespeed.
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Most linespeed gains are at the bottom end not the top end. The acceleration on the Class 755s is much better than the trains that they replaced.
 
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A0wen

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Class 170101 said:
Most linespeed gains are at the bottom end not the top end. The acceleration on the Class 755s is much better than the trains that they replaced.
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And since EWR isn't in line to receive 755s, timings on extending their services based on the current timings which were for Sprinters is entirely reasonable.
 
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A0wen said:
And since EWR isn't in line to receive 755s, timings on extending their services based on the current timings which were for Sprinters is entirely reasonable.
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No guarantee about that especially services transfer from GA to EWR then GA presumably would need fewer trains as they run fewer services unless you are suggesting the current Ipswich to Cambridge service remains
 
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A0wen

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Class 170101 said:
No guarantee about that especially services transfer from GA to EWR then GA presumably would need fewer trains as they run fewer services unless you are suggesting the current Ipswich to Cambridge service remains
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There's no way GA will be able to transfer enough 755s to EWR for their services. And it's already been said EWR will be starting with cascaded DMUs - whether that's 158s, 165s, 172s, 175s or 185s who knows. But it won't be 755s from GA.
 
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swt_passenger

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Bletchleyite said:
What's the linespeed to be?
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It’s defined by the TWA order inspector as:
“Passenger services will operate at speeds of
up to 100mph between Bicester and Bletchley,
up to 90mph between Aylesbury Vale Parkway and Claydon,
and up to 60mph between Bletchley and Bedford.“
I thought Oxford to Bletchley (and on to Milton Keynes) had always been known to be a 100 mph route?
 
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Tobbes said:
Problem is that Cambs station isn't central, and most of the places you want to go either are very central or are on the periphery where it is advantage car. Train needs to be under the hour, and as close to 45 mins as possible to be really competitive
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Depends on where you are going to in Cambridge. The city centre is a bit of a hike - but no worse than many other cities - and much of the jobs growth in Cambridge over recent years has been around the station area/Addenbrookes to the south and the Science Park to the north so most commuters won't be going into the city centre itself.

All it needs is some integrated thinking with the Cambridge Metro and you will be only a couple of minutes from the old centre.
 
fgwrich

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swt_passenger said:
It’s defined by the TWA order inspector as:
“Passenger services will operate at speeds of
up to 100mph between Bicester and Bletchley,
up to 90mph between Aylesbury Vale Parkway and Claydon,
and up to 60mph between Bletchley and Bedford.“
I thought Oxford to Bletchley (and on to Milton Keynes) had always been known to be a 100 mph route?
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From that part, are East West / Network Rail not upgrading the Bletchley - Bedford route then?
 
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swt_passenger

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fgwrich said:
From that part, are East West / Network Rail not upgrading the Bletchley - Bedford route then?
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AIUI only what is necessary to deal with level crossing risk due to doubled train frequency, and any necessary platform lengthening.
I looked for a short summary, but unfortunately it’s a near 400 page report:
 
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swt_passenger

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tankertop said:
Anybody else notice the Draft Transport Strategy published the other week by 'England's Economic Heartland'?

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Hi, and welcome to the forums.

But yes it was noticed, there was a separate discussion about it here:

Proposals for "Northern arc": linking north Oxfordshire (Banbury) with Northampton and Peterborough

Network Rail East West Arcs Network Rail is exploring the merits of three new east-west rail arcs in central southern England. They are: Northern arc: linking north Oxfordshire (Banbury) with Northampton and Peterborough Central arc: the Oxford to Cambridge East West Rail alignment but...
www.railforums.co.uk
 
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Ah right, didn't spot anything on that thread referring to a specific alignment from Bedford to the next strategic interchange, will go back and re-read...
 
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si404

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tankertop said:
Ah right, didn't spot anything on that thread referring to a specific alignment from Bedford to the next strategic interchange, will go back and re-read...
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That's because there isn't one (at least not in that document or the more detailed full document). Merely dashed straight lines (or is it even one straight line between Bedford and Cambridge?) on the map between the nodes. Note the route between Tempsford and Cambridge - that's clearly not a specific alignment, not least as it does go via the intermediate stop at Camborne.

Plus the central arc not in relation to the northern arc was off topic for the other thread. I don't know why you were directed to it!
 
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tankertop

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Yes, would agree with respect to the Tempsford - Cambridge route. 'Twas the specific identification of the Strategic Interchange station next to Tempsford Airfield in the Draft Transport Strategy that I found particularly interesting. That exact location was also identified by Central Beds Council in an economic report it commissioned on the potential benefits of EWR in 2017, back when it was proposing hundreds of new homes there as part of its Local Plan consultation ...


Screenshot-2020-08-10-at-14.04.35.jpg

Nothing's ever 100% but given that ALL the councils on the route are signatories to EEH, that would, at the least, suggest that Tempsford Airfield is highly likely to be the eventual location of the SI...
 
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swt_passenger said:
AIUI only what is necessary to deal with level crossing risk due to doubled train frequency, and any necessary platform lengthening.
I looked for a short summary, but unfortunately it’s a near 400 page report:
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When trains start running to Cambridge, the train frequency will require all level crossings to be closed on BBM, which is some locations is highly awkward. It's therefore falls to the scope of EWR Co. as developer of that phase of the scheme. It had been proposed to close some 'easy win' level crossings as part of EWR Ph.2, but when the local authorities made the 'easy wins' into 'difficult problems', they were dropped from the scope.
That being said, you can expect to see virtually nothing happen on BBM as a result of EWR Ph.2 and for it all to fall to the subsequent phase under EWR Co.
 
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swt_passenger

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work-traveller said:
When trains start running to Cambridge, the train frequency will require all level crossings to be closed on BBM, which is some locations is highly awkward. It's therefore falls to the scope of EWR Co. as developer of that phase of the scheme. It had been proposed to close some 'easy win' level crossings as part of EWR Ph.2, but when the local authorities made the 'easy wins' into 'difficult problems', they were dropped from the scope.
That being said, you can expect to see virtually nothing happen on BBM as a result of EWR Ph.2 and for it all to fall to the subsequent phase under EWR Co.
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I think that’s quite a good summary of the position. Kicking the can down the road to a large extent.
 
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Legolash2o

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Will the east-west rail allow trains coming from the ECML (i.e. Peterborough) to Milton Keynes or even Oxford?
 
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Legolash2o said:
Will the east-west rail allow trains coming from the ECML (i.e. Peterborough) to Milton Keynes or even Oxford?
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Probably far too early to say, they usually only refer to “interchange” where the route crosses the ECML. It could just be a simple bridge. Bedford to Milton Keynes isn’t planned or allowed for anyway, as theres no suitable route in the Bletchley area as has been discussed numerous times before in this thread.
 
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Legolash2o said:
Will the east-west rail allow trains coming from the ECML (i.e. Peterborough) to Milton Keynes or even Oxford?
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Not clear that there will be a junction to the ECML - it wouldn't be cheap, and how many trains would actually use it? Passive provision, perhaps, but unless passenger numbers of PBO-Bedford/MKC are immense, it feels like a change at the interchange would suffice.
 
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si404

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Legolash2o said:
Will the east-west rail allow trains coming from the ECML (i.e. Peterborough) to Milton Keynes or even Oxford?
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If one is built, there isn't a link to allow trains coming from Bedford and Cambridge to Milton Keynes - "even Oxford" is a far more likely situation.
 
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