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Supermarkets and Covid-19
- Thread starter Greybeard33
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I gave up with them when they implemented a queue to even get on the website! I used B&Q owned Screwfix instead - website available 24/7, click & collect, job done.
Islineclear3_1
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I did the same with Tool Station; ordered online and collected within the hour; in and out, no queuing
Skimpot flyer
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I work for Royal Mail and believe me, all sorts of stuff people might ordinarily go out to shops for is passing through our network.
People have not lost their appetite for shopping, but what we're seeing is volumes we would normally only see at Christmas or on 'Black Friday'. Every day. So it could be the lower footfall in physical shops, which I and other posters have witnessed, is down to those not wishing, or unable, to wear face coverings just using the internet instead.
I think to a certain extent it's a consequence of lockdown. I started using Amazon more when the shops I wanted weren't open. Now they have reopened I'm finding I can't be bothered with the hassle of shopping in town. Masks have a bearing on that, but so do one way systems in shops, being shouted at for not immediately getting some convoluted instructions they've dreamt up, and not wanting to deal with traffic and parking.
I'm spending far more time enjoying myself out and about in the countryside and at the coast, safe in the knowledge that my purchases will be waiting for me when I get home.
I'm spending far more time enjoying myself out and about in the countryside and at the coast, safe in the knowledge that my purchases will be waiting for me when I get home.
Just imagine how many people subscribed to something like Amazon Prime for the first time simply for the on demand tv/movie service during lockdown. Then their toaster breaks down one morning and they realise another benefit is they can have one delivered later that day with no shipping fee. All of a sudden you have all of these people with absolutely no need to make these little trips they would have done before without a second thought.
Scrotnig
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Indeed.
As I've been saying since the start of all this, the high street is over. It's finished. It doesn't matter how many incentive schemes you put forward. The population have been terrified into cowering in their homes, and now they are expected to go back to shops where they have to wear a mask, cannot try anything on, cannot go in with another person, not even a family member, and are bossed around and shouted at by people wearing a hi-viz, while being treated like an infectious danger to society. Absolutely not going to happen I'm afraid. It's not as if the high street was in rude health to start with, but this will finish it off. I'm intrigued to know what use will be found for all the derelict shops, I suspect city centres will become places were people live once again. But make no mistake - it is over.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I agree, and I don't think it's a bad thing either, and I'm pretty sure it would have happened within 10-20 years anyway. In many ways this virus has accelerated a move to online/from home stuff that was happening anyway.
Once this is all done with, the future of town and city centres, as I see it, is as entertainment and residential areas, plus specialist, mostly non-chain businesses and some extent of clothing and shoe retail. And I don't see that as a bad thing, really. Chain stores are rubbish - they have a poor range on site, and their staff typically are not at all knowledgeable. The only advantage of buying a telly from Currys PC World (or whatever) over buying one from Amazon is that you can have it now rather than tomorrow, and that just isn't that important in 99% of cases. They're also a blip in history - they've been around for maybe 50 years in force.
So what would I expect to see on the typical medium town high street going forwards?
I reckon:-
- Flats (particularly student flats in university towns)
- Pubs/bars/restaurants
- Perhaps an arthouse cinema or similar cultural venue
- Coffee shops and similar
- Shoe and clothing shops (as trying on can be inconvenient online there is still room for these)
- Small independent specialist businesses - services like solicitors, medical ones like opticians (but the model will be to charge a profitable fee for an eye test, as why not buy your glasses from Glasses Direct?), perhaps the likes of climbing shops and small bookshops
- Charity shops
- Perhaps a return of the specialist butcher, baker and greengrocer - with more people working from home these may become viable again
- Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local/Little Waitrose or whatever, depending how posh or otherwise the town is
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
Tbh, you've just summed up Dundee City Centre there. At the moment it's the clothing stores that are at risk of closing - I know Zara are closing, and there's fears Debenhams might follow. There's the two shopping malls at either end of the High Street, where the bigger chains (Primark, New Look, JD Sports, Sports Direct) are housed - anytime I've looked in it's been quite busy recently.
On the actual High Street, there's a few bargain stores (named Pound Land, Pound World, 99p Land, etc (and usually trade as "Christmas World" at appropriate times)) which are unanimously empty anytime I've passed recently, so I reckon these could go. In amongst them are the other things you've mentioned - specialist businesses, coffee shops, butchers/bakers, etc.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The big change will be that landlords will have to cut rents massively - with no chains to pay inflated rents, they'll need to be more affordable to small businesses.
Chain restaurants similarly seem to be disappearing in droves - and again, that's because they are basically all just rubbish. If you want rubbish foodservice food, you can have it for next to nothing in 'Spoons. Anywhere else has to trade on quality and innovation of food and drink.
Chain restaurants similarly seem to be disappearing in droves - and again, that's because they are basically all just rubbish. If you want rubbish foodservice food, you can have it for next to nothing in 'Spoons. Anywhere else has to trade on quality and innovation of food and drink.
Busaholic
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So, just at a time when HM Government is going to need every penny piece in income through taxation and other statutory fees, they are going to lose the vast amounts of business rates paid by the suckers who have the temerity to try to provide what the British public want in the form of large shops and department stores, etc. We all know, don't we, how the likes of Amazon are queuing up not only to substitute their services but to fill the Exchequer's coffers?
Not to forget the Income Tax paid by all those shop employees, not all of whom are on minimum wage and so do contribute in this way.My local big town centre, Salisbury, has had a double whammy. Novichok in 2018 and Covid this year. We are losing shop after shop. Two of the big anchor stores have gone- BHS and Debenhams. We still have M&S, but for how long? There is a whole street of charity shops/cash converters type businesses. We have lost Carphone Warehouse, Vodafone has gone too. As has Clinton Cards. So many empty shop units
York's been pretty much that for years - the past ten or 15 years have seen a proliferation of bars (and actually, independent shops which sell anything other than tourist junk have in many cases disappeared).
Of course, with bars comes antisocial behavior - especially when it became a favoured destination for hen parties at the more chav end of the spectrum. I used to like the place and lived there for many years, but was glad to get out. Under normal circumstances I still go there regularly for work, but that's it - don't think Iv'e been into the city centre since I moved away.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Clinton Cards has no business model when put against Moonpig etc, the small number of people who won't buy cards online can buy them from newsagents[1] and supermarkets.
Vodafone and Carphone Whorehouse? Who wants a smarmy salesman when you can buy online? I'm not sure to what extent they will be missed. They're just more of the chain-store dross, which now people have alternatives they are taking in droves.
Looking at tellies again - Richer Sounds does quite well, because they offer good prices and have staff who know what they are talking about so you can get advice and try out products before buying. While it's a chain, it's also the exact sort of niche business I'm talking about.
[1] Of which the "news" part is also dying - "convenience store" is their future really.
That’s a real shame. We had a weekend in the city about three years ago and it was great, with a thriving feel about the place just I remembered it in the 90s.
I think the demise of Clinton Cards may have had something to do with the fact that Card Factory was next door and cheaper. But you're right, the mobile phone shop will die out, my last 3 phones have been bought online. You don't need a salesman. It's largely a choice between an Android phone or an I Phone.
The high street names that will survive are the ones that embrace online properly. Earlier in the week I commented on how I bought a toaster from Argos and it came the same day. They'll be fine. I bought some printer ink on eBay. Turns out when it was delivered I'd bought from Curry's. Well done them.
The high street names that will survive are the ones that embrace online properly. Earlier in the week I commented on how I bought a toaster from Argos and it came the same day. They'll be fine. I bought some printer ink on eBay. Turns out when it was delivered I'd bought from Curry's. Well done them.
Skimpot flyer
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If the latter drop the first part of that (typo) name, they’ll be in a line of business where the online offering will not match the in-store experience !!
In spite of having bought all my phones online for at least the last 15 years, mobile phone shops are one of the few shops I tend to visit at least once a year (the others are supermarkets, and bookshops where I get more pleasure from browsing and finding books to buy than I do from reading the silly things). There's plenty of bits to do with the regular switchovers in SIM card formats, one lost phone, and a couple of queries that were better answered there than by their awful helplines.
More importantly, I had to buy an expensive new phone contract during lockdown to make up for the suddenly-dreadful upload speeds on my ADSL. With all the shops closed I had to pay for delivery, and then sit getting very little work done for two days while they got round to dispatching it, and the Royal Mail got round to delivering it. I'm sure both were doing their best in tough circumstances, but it would have been so much easier being able to go into a phone shop and get a SIM programmed up in minutes. Since the contract is going to cost 600 quid over its lifetime I'm sure they can afford a little expenditure on a shop to service it
An understatement!
20p Card Factory, £2.00 Clintons!
bramling
Veteran Member
I suspect it’s all of the above. Personally thanks to masks I’m now only using shops if I need something *right now*, and to be honest even that is tenuous as one can order via Amazon and have the item arrive pretty quickly nowadays, gone are the days when delivery took a week.
Then there’s the issue that certain things seem to have been plundered off the shelves - especially stuff like garden wares. So again why bother with a wasted trip to the garden centre when I can order at the click of a button and not have to worry about any of that.
I’m afraid Johnson, Sunak and Hancock have done a massive amount of structural damage to this country, something which I think will become increasingly apparent as time progresses.
My local Morrisons's is now back to normal. Deli, butcher & fish counters reopened weeks ago. Barriers for queuing outside were removed last week with security stood down (I had not actually seen any queues for a few weeks before that). Final step was removal of the single queue for the checkouts yesterday - you just go to which you prefer, as before. At no point during the 'new' arrangements was shopping as a couple bannned or one way systems introduced.
At Sainsbury's half a mile away there are still queues outside and a neighbour who went yesterday advised that, when they actually got in, there were very few other people there and they did not understand why they had been forced to queue. Deli and fish counters are still closed. They thought the no-couple rule had been abandoned but were not 100% sure.
What is the situation elsewhere ?
At Sainsbury's half a mile away there are still queues outside and a neighbour who went yesterday advised that, when they actually got in, there were very few other people there and they did not understand why they had been forced to queue. Deli and fish counters are still closed. They thought the no-couple rule had been abandoned but were not 100% sure.
What is the situation elsewhere ?
DelayRepay
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Here it's the same - Morrisons is the closest to normal with the counters and cafe open. Last time I went they still had the queue barriers outside but I've not seen a queue for a long time. The guard was sat outside on a deckchair - not sure if he was waiting for a queue or just enjoying the sunshine! Apart from the plastic screens at checkouts, disinfectant to clean the trolleys and some hand sanitiser stations dotted around, it feels pretty normal.
Sainsburys, on the other hand, still have their main doors locked - pedestrians have to enter via the underground car park. Their counters are still closed (although the fish counter appears to have been converted into an Argos Click and Collect point). The cafe is closed still. I do wonder, actually, if they are going down the same route as Tesco and planning to reduce their counter offering. I get the impression that the counters and 'Market Street' concept are quite important to Morrisons, whereas the other stores see them as a bit of an inconvenience. Maybe Morrisons approach reflects their sensible Yorkshire roots?
Sainsburys, on the other hand, still have their main doors locked - pedestrians have to enter via the underground car park. Their counters are still closed (although the fish counter appears to have been converted into an Argos Click and Collect point). The cafe is closed still. I do wonder, actually, if they are going down the same route as Tesco and planning to reduce their counter offering. I get the impression that the counters and 'Market Street' concept are quite important to Morrisons, whereas the other stores see them as a bit of an inconvenience. Maybe Morrisons approach reflects their sensible Yorkshire roots?
DelW
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At my local Sainsbury's, the deli, butchery and similar counters are all still closed, though I've been buying my meat from the local butcher's instead as they'll sell the exact amount I want. I'm not sure if the zig zag barrier queue in the car park is still there or not, but I've not had to use it for maybe 6 - 8 weeks. Other than the closed counters, and screens at checkouts, it's all pretty normal.
The local competition is a Waitrose, whose counters are open. I've had to queue to get in quite recently, but only for five minutes at most. Except for that, they're completely back to normal.
My preferred type of bread flour is still unobtainable in either of them though, so I've been buying that from a local farm shop. Theirs comes from a local-ish mill, and makes really good bread, so I'll probably stay with that.
The local competition is a Waitrose, whose counters are open. I've had to queue to get in quite recently, but only for five minutes at most. Except for that, they're completely back to normal.
My preferred type of bread flour is still unobtainable in either of them though, so I've been buying that from a local farm shop. Theirs comes from a local-ish mill, and makes really good bread, so I'll probably stay with that.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Windermere Booths earlier - station side entrance/exit is closed which is a nuisance. The more odd thing is that baskets are not available, only trolleys. On the door they have a strange type of hand sanitiser which feels like it's actually soap (i.e. it doesn't evaporate when you rub it in unlike normal sanitiser) but it magically does about 20 seconds later - odd! Other than till screens and masks everything else is as normal.
My big Sainsbury's hasn't had queues for ages, but it had run out of the small tins of tomatoes when I went there last.
Or at least I hope they had run out. They have a habit of discontinuing every line I like at the moment.
I've been mostly going to the local format stores through all this because I'm the kind of person that goes shopping every few days and buys a few nights' dinners. Just went in to the big Sainsbury's in Chesham and it was basically back to normal, apart from the plastic at all the tills. Waitrose is still regularly queueing down in the direction of the tube station though, which goes against a lot of what others are saying. I'm imagining store managers have a lot of leeway in what rules each store is still following.
Jamesrob637
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Not strictly speaking a supermarket, but IKEA Warrington had massive queues today and it was drizzling.
As for food stores, being still on furlough means I have pick of the bunch in terms of which day I can go. Haven't had to queue anywhere for a while now outside but tills can still be slow. Larger supermarkets need to really have every other till open from more or less opening time to closing time.
As for food stores, being still on furlough means I have pick of the bunch in terms of which day I can go. Haven't had to queue anywhere for a while now outside but tills can still be slow. Larger supermarkets need to really have every other till open from more or less opening time to closing time.
My local Sainsburys still has the barriers and a person outside the entrance but I've not had to queue for a few weeks. Cycle parking is still being used for trolley storage. Inside there are frequent announcements which include telling people to wear face masks. I expect it's the same recording as used in English stores. They are heavily promoting the scan as you shop system.
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