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Stagecoach Repaint Updates

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Redmike

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Is there a policy on black window surrounds or not as one of these two identical buses in Mansfield and Carlisle must be wrong?

 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Is there a policy on black window surrounds or not as one of these two identical buses in Mansfield and Carlisle must be wrong?


Evidently not. Have to prefer the black window surrounds myself.
 

507021

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I have to say I'm really disappointed by the rebrand. The liveries are bland in my view and there doesn't seem to be any consistency at all.

Dreadful.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I have to say I'm really disappointed by the rebrand. The liveries are bland in my view and there doesn't seem to be any consistency at all.

Dreadful.

I'm not so bothered about the inconsistencies. Are people on the street going to know that 22701 has black light clusters whilst 22712 has them overpainted, or whatever?

I don't even mind the colour but the layout seems incoherent. It may be cheap to apply but certainly not easy to maintain.

Ray Stenning is probably simultaneously smiling because they've emphasised why you get a design/marketing expert in, and grimacing because he cares about the industry doing well and then someone provides that.
 

507021

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I'm not so bothered about the inconsistencies. Are people on the street going to know that 22701 has black light clusters whilst 22712 has them overpainted, or whatever?

I don't even mind the colour but the layout seems incoherent. It may be cheap to apply but certainly not easy to maintain.

Ray Stenning is probably simultaneously smiling because they've emphasised why you get a design/marketing expert in, and grimacing because he cares about the industry doing well and then someone provides that.

Probably not, but in my view the lack of consistency between repaints doesn't impress me at all. Maybe that's just me being picky, but I thought the whole point of the rebrand was to replace all of the various variants of "Beachball" with one uniform livery?

East Yorkshire's standard livery has a lot more going on compared to Stagecoach's new one, yet the consistency between East Yorkshire's repaints is leagues ahead.
 

SeveerYeliab

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Probably not, but in my view the lack of consistency between repaints doesn't impress me at all. Maybe that's just me being picky, but I thought the whole point of the rebrand was to replace all of the various variants of "Beachball" with one uniform livery?

East Yorkshire's standard livery has a lot more going on compared to Stagecoach's new one, yet the consistency between East Yorkshire's repaints is leagues ahead.

How many different divisions does east Yorkshire have? How many paintshops? How many depots?
Of course eyms will have better application than stagecoach.
The new livery is growing on me, and at the end of the day, what's going to drag people out of cars, cheap and frequent buses or a new paint job? As long as they turn up I dont think many people will care - not everyone is an enthusiast!
 

hst43102

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The new livery is growing on me, and at the end of the day, what's going to drag people out of cars, cheap and frequent buses or a new paint job? As long as they turn up I dont think many people will care - not everyone is an enthusiast!

Good point. However, I think that the new livery looks cheap and awful compared to the old one. As you say, people won't really care about the livery. So, if it wasn't broken, why fix it (and make a dog's dinner of the new one) in the process?
 

Jordan Adam

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It depends on vehicle type, although E200s should have black surrounds. E350Hs on the other hand shouldn't, as seen below.

 

TheGrandWazoo

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Probably not, but in my view the lack of consistency between repaints doesn't impress me at all. Maybe that's just me being picky, but I thought the whole point of the rebrand was to replace all of the various variants of "Beachball" with one uniform livery?

Yes but that's detail differences. The main issue was to remove all the variants in colours and layouts etc.... the green version for hybrid vehicles, the Winchester Kings City, the two tone red in Devon, the Lincolnshire Connect purple, Sussex Coastliner, the Carlisle ones.....
 

cnjb8

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Yes but that's detail differences. The main issue was to remove all the variants in colours and layouts etc.... the green version for hybrid vehicles, the Winchester Kings City, the two tone red in Devon, the Lincolnshire Connect purple, Sussex Coastliner, the Carlisle ones.....
Lincolnshires InterConnect livery is staying.
 

tbtc

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I thought the whole point of the rebrand was to replace all of the various variants of "Beachball" with one uniform livery?

Agreed!

I thought that the previous range of liveries made sense over the past twenty years - a general one for most buses, specialist ones with the same pattern for specialist vehicles (be that the green hybrids in some big cities, the "Gold" branding, the purple on some coaches, the Lake District green), certain flagship routes having entirely different approaches (Oxford Tube, Falcon, X5 etc) - all part of the same broad family but permitting some local differences to suit local circumstances. Same with route numbers - e.g. most areas have stuck to simple numbers, some places had alphabetised routes (e.g. Exeter), some places had "named" routes (e.g. Bedford) - some places had OTT branding, some had subtle route branding, some had no branding - but it worked fairly well IMHO.

I can see why they wanted to "evolve" the livery - the blue/yellow/green looks brighter and fresher than the old livery - I appreciate that operators have a periodic switch between "corporate" and "local" (just as they keep reinventing the wheel between whether route branding works or is more hassle than its worth) - marketing people have to tinker to keep themselves in a job.

But now we have a livery with two main problems:

1. It's sloppily applied - no consistency over whether lights/indicators/ window surrounds should be coloured in or left black - it's one thing to have an inconsistent livery on an odd-ball vehicle but E200s and E400s make up a large part of the fleet and they can't even settle on the livery for these mass produced vehicles. Given how many ADL buses Stagecoach have, you'd think that there'd be a simple instruction over the three panels underneath the front windscreen - are they all blue? White, blue blue? Yellow, white blue? Blue, blue, yellow? This is the first impression of the vehicle that most passengers will get (waiting at a stop), but they can't even get that consistent. I'd feel sympathetic if it was something as minor as whether a curve comes down over the third window or fourth window - I know some enthusiasts got very exercised about how "steep" the First Barbie "willow leafs" were on the side of the vehicles - but professional painters don't seem to know what colour to apply to the front of the bus, which bodes badly. There even seems to be inconsistency over whether the third colour is yellow/ gold/ orange, but maybe that's more about the pictures I've seen. Maybe this will be dismissed as something only enthusiasts will notice, but I think ordinary passengers will be able to spot the difference between a bus turning up with "white blue blue" panels at the front and "blue, blue, yellow". I don't think people will mind that buses in their home town are a different style to ones in places hundreds of miles away, but I do think they'll notice that buses in their town seem to have a fairly slapdash approach to things.

2. It'd look nice as a logo on headed paper but doesn't look like a livery actually designed to go on buses. You can see on the driver's side that the front blue section is a curve but on the kerb side the effect is ruined by the black space taken up by the door. On most buses the "curve" of the green is lost by the chunky black windows. Snazzy colours, sure, but it doesn't translate very well onto an actual bus - at least Ray Stenning clearly knows what buses are and tends to design liveries that accommodate the shapes of buses. I don't want every UK operator to have the same livery but look at liveries that work and use that as a rough template - you don't need to spend lots of money on consultants to come up with a complicated colour scheme that won't translate onto an actual bus with actual windows/ doors/ lights etc. Same with the white skirt (especially behind the wheels) - guaranteed to look mucky after an hour or two of splashing through puddles and make the operator look bad.

The one bit of the buses that looks decent is the rear - the blue and yellow/gold/orange with a thin white stripe between them - but that's not going to be the first impression that passengers will notice.

Worth remembering that Stagecoach weren't forced into this (e.g. a company buying an operation who need to repaint them all at short notice) - they've had plenty of time to design this - so they should have ironed out the details before launching the livery - to start muddling their way through, then repainting buses shortly after (I think the "green" E200 from the launch at Doncaster Sheffield Airport is now a "white" bus?) - it's like the Boris Johnson approach to bus liveries!

Not to worry, I'm sure there'll be a couple more "tweaks" and "refreshes" in the next six months as they deal with the completely predictable problems that they occur!
 

507021

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How many different divisions does east Yorkshire have? How many paintshops? How many depots?
Of course eyms will have better application than stagecoach.
The new livery is growing on me, and at the end of the day, what's going to drag people out of cars, cheap and frequent buses or a new paint job? As long as they turn up I dont think many people will care - not everyone is an enthusiast!

At least with Arriva, whilst there are differences between divisions (not ideal, but understandable), there's consistency within them. The fact Stagecoach own a large number of bodyshops is a weak and poor justification for Bus 1 and Bus 2 from the same depot having different applications of the "Local" livery. All of Stagecoach's bodyshop facilities will have received the exact same information for vehicle repaints when the new colour scheme was launched, so I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that at all I'm afraid.

Agreed!

I thought that the previous range of liveries made sense over the past twenty years - a general one for most buses, specialist ones with the same pattern for specialist vehicles (be that the green hybrids in some big cities, the "Gold" branding, the purple on some coaches, the Lake District green), certain flagship routes having entirely different approaches (Oxford Tube, Falcon, X5 etc) - all part of the same broad family but permitting some local differences to suit local circumstances. Same with route numbers - e.g. most areas have stuck to simple numbers, some places had alphabetised routes (e.g. Exeter), some places had "named" routes (e.g. Bedford) - some places had OTT branding, some had subtle route branding, some had no branding - but it worked fairly well IMHO.

I can see why they wanted to "evolve" the livery - the blue/yellow/green looks brighter and fresher than the old livery - I appreciate that operators have a periodic switch between "corporate" and "local" (just as they keep reinventing the wheel between whether route branding works or is more hassle than its worth) - marketing people have to tinker to keep themselves in a job.

But now we have a livery with two main problems:

1. It's sloppily applied - no consistency over whether lights/indicators/ window surrounds should be coloured in or left black - it's one thing to have an inconsistent livery on an odd-ball vehicle but E200s and E400s make up a large part of the fleet and they can't even settle on the livery for these mass produced vehicles. Given how many ADL buses Stagecoach have, you'd think that there'd be a simple instruction over the three panels underneath the front windscreen - are they all blue? White, blue blue? Yellow, white blue? Blue, blue, yellow? This is the first impression of the vehicle that most passengers will get (waiting at a stop), but they can't even get that consistent. I'd feel sympathetic if it was something as minor as whether a curve comes down over the third window or fourth window - I know some enthusiasts got very exercised about how "steep" the First Barbie "willow leafs" were on the side of the vehicles - but professional painters don't seem to know what colour to apply to the front of the bus, which bodes badly. There even seems to be inconsistency over whether the third colour is yellow/ gold/ orange, but maybe that's more about the pictures I've seen. Maybe this will be dismissed as something only enthusiasts will notice, but I think ordinary passengers will be able to spot the difference between a bus turning up with "white blue blue" panels at the front and "blue, blue, yellow". I don't think people will mind that buses in their home town are a different style to ones in places hundreds of miles away, but I do think they'll notice that buses in their town seem to have a fairly slapdash approach to things.

2. It'd look nice as a logo on headed paper but doesn't look like a livery actually designed to go on buses. You can see on the driver's side that the front blue section is a curve but on the kerb side the effect is ruined by the black space taken up by the door. On most buses the "curve" of the green is lost by the chunky black windows. Snazzy colours, sure, but it doesn't translate very well onto an actual bus - at least Ray Stenning clearly knows what buses are and tends to design liveries that accommodate the shapes of buses. I don't want every UK operator to have the same livery but look at liveries that work and use that as a rough template - you don't need to spend lots of money on consultants to come up with a complicated colour scheme that won't translate onto an actual bus with actual windows/ doors/ lights etc. Same with the white skirt (especially behind the wheels) - guaranteed to look mucky after an hour or two of splashing through puddles and make the operator look bad.

The one bit of the buses that looks decent is the rear - the blue and yellow/gold/orange with a thin white stripe between them - but that's not going to be the first impression that passengers will notice.

Worth remembering that Stagecoach weren't forced into this (e.g. a company buying an operation who need to repaint them all at short notice) - they've had plenty of time to design this - so they should have ironed out the details before launching the livery - to start muddling their way through, then repainting buses shortly after (I think the "green" E200 from the launch at Doncaster Sheffield Airport is now a "white" bus?) - it's like the Boris Johnson approach to bus liveries!

Not to worry, I'm sure there'll be a couple more "tweaks" and "refreshes" in the next six months as they deal with the completely predictable problems that they occur!

Thanks, I'm glad someone agrees with me. There were a large number of applications of the previous standard livery, and I thought with the new standard livery, these inconsistencies would disappear over time. Unfortunately, it appears that isn't going to be the case.

Clearly however, negative opinions of Stagecoach aren't allowed. I'll bear that in mind for next time! :D
 

fgwrich

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Agreed!

I thought that the previous range of liveries made sense over the past twenty years - a general one for most buses, specialist ones with the same pattern for specialist vehicles (be that the green hybrids in some big cities, the "Gold" branding, the purple on some coaches, the Lake District green), certain flagship routes having entirely different approaches (Oxford Tube, Falcon, X5 etc) - all part of the same broad family but permitting some local differences to suit local circumstances. Same with route numbers - e.g. most areas have stuck to simple numbers, some places had alphabetised routes (e.g. Exeter), some places had "named" routes (e.g. Bedford) - some places had OTT branding, some had subtle route branding, some had no branding - but it worked fairly well IMHO.

I can see why they wanted to "evolve" the livery - the blue/yellow/green looks brighter and fresher than the old livery - I appreciate that operators have a periodic switch between "corporate" and "local" (just as they keep reinventing the wheel between whether route branding works or is more hassle than its worth) - marketing people have to tinker to keep themselves in a job.

But now we have a livery with two main problems:

1. It's sloppily applied - no consistency over whether lights/indicators/ window surrounds should be coloured in or left black - it's one thing to have an inconsistent livery on an odd-ball vehicle but E200s and E400s make up a large part of the fleet and they can't even settle on the livery for these mass produced vehicles. Given how many ADL buses Stagecoach have, you'd think that there'd be a simple instruction over the three panels underneath the front windscreen - are they all blue? White, blue blue? Yellow, white blue? Blue, blue, yellow? This is the first impression of the vehicle that most passengers will get (waiting at a stop), but they can't even get that consistent. I'd feel sympathetic if it was something as minor as whether a curve comes down over the third window or fourth window - I know some enthusiasts got very exercised about how "steep" the First Barbie "willow leafs" were on the side of the vehicles - but professional painters don't seem to know what colour to apply to the front of the bus, which bodes badly. There even seems to be inconsistency over whether the third colour is yellow/ gold/ orange, but maybe that's more about the pictures I've seen. Maybe this will be dismissed as something only enthusiasts will notice, but I think ordinary passengers will be able to spot the difference between a bus turning up with "white blue blue" panels at the front and "blue, blue, yellow". I don't think people will mind that buses in their home town are a different style to ones in places hundreds of miles away, but I do think they'll notice that buses in their town seem to have a fairly slapdash approach to things.

2. It'd look nice as a logo on headed paper but doesn't look like a livery actually designed to go on buses. You can see on the driver's side that the front blue section is a curve but on the kerb side the effect is ruined by the black space taken up by the door. On most buses the "curve" of the green is lost by the chunky black windows. Snazzy colours, sure, but it doesn't translate very well onto an actual bus - at least Ray Stenning clearly knows what buses are and tends to design liveries that accommodate the shapes of buses. I don't want every UK operator to have the same livery but look at liveries that work and use that as a rough template - you don't need to spend lots of money on consultants to come up with a complicated colour scheme that won't translate onto an actual bus with actual windows/ doors/ lights etc. Same with the white skirt (especially behind the wheels) - guaranteed to look mucky after an hour or two of splashing through puddles and make the operator look bad.

The one bit of the buses that looks decent is the rear - the blue and yellow/gold/orange with a thin white stripe between them - but that's not going to be the first impression that passengers will notice.

Worth remembering that Stagecoach weren't forced into this (e.g. a company buying an operation who need to repaint them all at short notice) - they've had plenty of time to design this - so they should have ironed out the details before launching the livery - to start muddling their way through, then repainting buses shortly after (I think the "green" E200 from the launch at Doncaster Sheffield Airport is now a "white" bus?) - it's like the Boris Johnson approach to bus liveries!

Not to worry, I'm sure there'll be a couple more "tweaks" and "refreshes" in the next six months as they deal with the completely predictable problems that they occur!

Probably the most reasoned post on this thread I have to say. While most believe that the inconsistencies won't be picked up by the public, some of them are. For example my dad (who is not interested in buses) picked up on two Enviros having a different rear end application the other day as well as an "old" liveried MMC pulling up alongside it - He was not a fan of the new scheme either. I still can't say I'm a fan of the "Gold" replacement either, which still looks far too School Bus for my liking. If it retained some form of "Gold" branding then you could understand the point of it, but to keep it bright yellow with the beachball in gold vinyl, and no extra additions, then it retains the feeling of a part time school bus than a more "luxurious" bus.
 

507021

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I still can't say I'm a fan of the "Gold" replacement either, which still looks far too School Bus for my liking. If it retained some form of "Gold" branding then you could understand the point of it, but to keep it bright yellow with the beachball in gold vinyl, and no extra additions, then it retains the feeling of a part time school bus than a more "luxurious" bus.

Completely agree. The new livery scheme as a whole isn't great, but that one has to be the worst. Dreadful.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Clearly however, negative opinions of Stagecoach aren't allowed. I'll bear that in mind for next time! :D

I don't think that's the case. You are fully entitled to be negative as long as you meet the forum rules, which you did. Most people on this board have been pretty negative about the new schemes. Are the the very detail differences (e.g. colour of light clusters) that important? I'd say probably not as that's not the biggest issue with the new image. As I said earlier, my understanding was to move from a plethora of totally different liveries to a base of just 3 with the occasional non-standard one.

Take @tbtc and the mention of the various coach liveries. We have the X5, the Falcon, the Oxford Tube - there's no reason why they can't have a standard Stagecoach livery that can have the route/brand specifics added on. That's not the point - the issue is that they've elected to choose something that in no way looks premium....

That there were so many variations of Stagecoach livery, including different green options depending if you're on a Manc hybrid, a Lakes e400 or a Sussex one, illustrates part of the issue that they were trying to resolve. They just haven't made a very good job of it.

1. It's sloppily applied - no consistency over whether lights/indicators/ window surrounds should be coloured in or left black - it's one thing to have an inconsistent livery on an odd-ball vehicle but E200s and E400s make up a large part of the fleet and they can't even settle on the livery for these mass produced vehicles. Given how many ADL buses Stagecoach have, you'd think that there'd be a simple instruction over the three panels underneath the front windscreen - are they all blue? White, blue blue? Yellow, white blue? Blue, blue, yellow? This is the first impression of the vehicle that most passengers will get (waiting at a stop), but they can't even get that consistent. I'd feel sympathetic if it was something as minor as whether a curve comes down over the third window or fourth window - I know some enthusiasts got very exercised about how "steep" the First Barbie "willow leafs" were on the side of the vehicles - but professional painters don't seem to know what colour to apply to the front of the bus, which bodes badly. There even seems to be inconsistency over whether the third colour is yellow/ gold/ orange, but maybe that's more about the pictures I've seen. Maybe this will be dismissed as something only enthusiasts will notice, but I think ordinary passengers will be able to spot the difference between a bus turning up with "white blue blue" panels at the front and "blue, blue, yellow". I don't think people will mind that buses in their home town are a different style to ones in places hundreds of miles away, but I do think they'll notice that buses in their town seem to have a fairly slapdash approach to things.

2. It'd look nice as a logo on headed paper but doesn't look like a livery actually designed to go on buses. You can see on the driver's side that the front blue section is a curve but on the kerb side the effect is ruined by the black space taken up by the door. On most buses the "curve" of the green is lost by the chunky black windows. Snazzy colours, sure, but it doesn't translate very well onto an actual bus - at least Ray Stenning clearly knows what buses are and tends to design liveries that accommodate the shapes of buses. I don't want every UK operator to have the same livery but look at liveries that work and use that as a rough template - you don't need to spend lots of money on consultants to come up with a complicated colour scheme that won't translate onto an actual bus with actual windows/ doors/ lights etc. Same with the white skirt (especially behind the wheels) - guaranteed to look mucky after an hour or two of splashing through puddles and make the operator look bad.

The one bit of the buses that looks decent is the rear - the blue and yellow/gold/orange with a thin white stripe between them - but that's not going to be the first impression that passengers will notice.

Worth remembering that Stagecoach weren't forced into this (e.g. a company buying an operation who need to repaint them all at short notice) - they've had plenty of time to design this - so they should have ironed out the details before launching the livery - to start muddling their way through, then repainting buses shortly after (I think the "green" E200 from the launch at Doncaster Sheffield Airport is now a "white" bus?) - it's like the Boris Johnson approach to bus liveries!

Not to worry, I'm sure there'll be a couple more "tweaks" and "refreshes" in the next six months as they deal with the completely predictable problems that they occur!

I might not agree with the focus on absolute detail but you raise two very good points.

It may not be important if that curve or that light cluster is painted to be absolutely uniform but the lack of consistency on what colours actually feature on the front of the bus is almost unbelievable.

Secondly, the design fails to make the leap from a concept to the physical application on the bus as you rightly illustrate with the white skirt or the sweep being broken up by the entrance door.

It's something that Ray Stenning and Best Impressions understand. Their designs are often criticised as samey but there are basic design rules (e.g. colour wheel) and the bus specific rules that strongly influence livery design. It's also that market knowledge that they use so they know the issues - where mud splashes up, how panels need to be replaced etc. Stuff that the Stagecoach managers that I know believe wasn't considered when this livery was agreed.
 

cnjb8

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Why, it won’t have any connection with the new style livery.
I think the livery is specified by Lincolnshire County Council and just happens to look like the beachball livery, but buses are still being painted into InterConnect livery with the new Stagecoach symbol.
 

fgwrich

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It's something that Ray Stenning and Best Impressions understand. Their designs are often criticised as samey but there are basic design rules (e.g. colour wheel) and the bus specific rules that strongly influence livery design. It's also that market knowledge that they use so they know the issues - where mud splashes up, how panels need to be replaced etc. Stuff that the Stagecoach managers that I know believe wasn't considered when this livery was agreed.

That is something else that I am rather interested to see come winter time. As is often the problem with white liveries, you need a very well regimented cleaning regime to make it look reasonably good. However, given the amount of filth covering my local Stagecoach vehicles last winter, It is fair to say that I do not hold much hope!
 

AB93

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I might not agree with the focus on absolute detail but you raise two very good points.

It may not be important if that curve or that light cluster is painted to be absolutely uniform but the lack of consistency on what colours actually feature on the front of the bus is almost unbelievable.

Secondly, the design fails to make the leap from a concept to the physical application on the bus as you rightly illustrate with the white skirt or the sweep being broken up by the entrance door.

Indeed - it's not a black and white "people won't notice" or "it's terrible" situation - but if you take the middle ground view, some of the inconsistencies are just wild.
The black window surrounds vs. white on the E200s in the post above look so different they may as well be two different liveries!
 

tbtc

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There were a large number of applications of the previous standard livery, and I thought with the new standard livery, these inconsistencies would disappear over time. Unfortunately, it appears that isn't going to be the case

Agreed - there were some bad applications of the "beachball" livery - ideally the rear orange and red "swoops" were meant to extend below the white onto the dark blue, with the red finishing some distance behind the orange. Some applications have the orange finishing without intruding into the dark blue, some have the red and orange swoops finishing at the same "point", some have a thin white band between the red and orange, some have the red touching the orange...

...and the less said about the "swoops" at the front of buses, the better! Some absolute shockers there, no consistency over whether there's an orange swoop as well as the blue one at the front...

e.g. this Scania in Kirkcaldy looks like a cheap Chinese copy of a Stagecoach bus - the front blue swoop squiggling all over the place, the red at the rear finishing at a different level to the orange - amazing!


So I'm not claiming that the old livery was perfect or uniform or that there was no reason to change it - I'm not hung up on it (I grew up in the "stripes" era, so have no particular attachment to "beachball").

I can see that the new colours look quite "fresh", it could be quite a nice combination (that said, I liked the yellow/ blue/ green First Edinburgh livery, twenty years ago). But it's been badly designed, doesn't suit the shape of a bus and can't be consistently applied - a shame, as it feels like an unforced error. Stagecoach used to be very good at liveries - look at how their three train liveries simply got across the message that they were all Stagecoach but different levels of speed/comfort.

Take @tbtc and the mention of the various coach liveries. We have the X5, the Falcon, the Oxford Tube - there's no reason why they can't have a standard Stagecoach livery that can have the route/brand specifics added on. That's not the point - the issue is that they've elected to choose something that in no way looks premium....

I could see the logic of having one "high quality" branding for all coach operations and the "Gold" routes - say a black body to distinguish it - but Stagecoach have veered from one extreme (lots of different local branding) to the other ("one size fits all") - e.g. there was no reason why "Falcon" had to have a brand new identity - it's a nice colour scheme - but they could have used the same colours as the Oxford Tube or the X5 - which is why this "simplification" seems a bit OTT IMHO.

the design fails to make the leap from a concept to the physical application on the bus as you rightly illustrate with the white skirt or the sweep being broken up by the entrance door.

It's something that Ray Stenning and Best Impressions understand. Their designs are often criticised as samey but there are basic design rules (e.g. colour wheel) and the bus specific rules that strongly influence livery design. It's also that market knowledge that they use so they know the issues - where mud splashes up, how panels need to be replaced etc. Stuff that the Stagecoach managers that I know believe wasn't considered when this livery was agreed.

I feel Ray Stenning gets a lot of unjustified criticism - with so many liveries around the UK and so many enthusiasts having access to Flickr etc, of course people are going to find similarities, but part of this will be because modern vehicles are becoming quite ugly, big chunky black sections of glazing/ bodywork (remember the days before 80% of the front of a double decker was black?). There's very little room to splash your identity.

But Best Impressions design liveries based on the realities of the shape of vehicles, the bits that get muddy, the bits that get damaged (you can have a fancy pattern of colours below the windows but it's generally a good idea to have a plain dark skirt since that's the bit that other vehicles will crash into, meaning panel replacement needs to be quite simple and something dark will cover up any dents/bashes).

I can see that a mainly plain white skirt would look fresh/ clean/ modern/ different to the design team, but even if you clean all your buses thoroughly overnight they'll look filthy by lunchtime as they cope with the puddles/ potholes/ spray. No point having a livery that looks fresh on paper but grimy in reality. But then there's no point in having a complicated whooshy livery where the swoops and curves are hidden by the big black chunks of windows/ doors.
 

Jordan Adam

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Agreed - there were some bad applications of the "beachball" livery - ideally the rear orange and red "swoops" were meant to extend below the white onto the dark blue, with the red finishing some distance behind the orange. Some applications have the orange finishing without intruding into the dark blue, some have the red and orange swoops finishing at the same "point", some have a thin white band between the red and orange, some have the red touching the orange...

...and the less said about the "swoops" at the front of buses, the better! Some absolute shockers there, no consistency over whether there's an orange swoop as well as the blue one at the front...

The livery application is dependant on when the repaint was done. No white line between the orange/red and no orange swoop at the front is the accurate application post-2014/15ish on all buses except older deckers.
 

Typhoon

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...and the less said about the "swoops" at the front of buses, the better! Some absolute shockers there, no consistency over whether there's an orange swoop as well as the blue one at the front...

e.g. this Scania in Kirkcaldy looks like a cheap Chinese copy of a Stagecoach bus - the front blue swoop squiggling all over the place, the red at the rear finishing at a different level to the orange - amazing!

I assume that this is a local interpretation. East Kent has four OmniCitys, there is one I haven't seen but as regards the rest, they have the orange swoop at the front, and the red and orange swoops at the back culminate in a horizontal line. Surely there are going to be similar problems with the new livery to those you describe as different vehicles, probably cascaded, are added to provincial fleets?
 

py_megapixel

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Is there a policy on black window surrounds or not as one of these two identical buses in Mansfield and Carlisle must be wrong?

I think it's just another bizarre inconsistency between paint shops. Indeed, in the two photos you've linked, the window bands aren't even the only difference!

Personally I prefer it with the bands, without looks a bit plain.
 

SeveerYeliab

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Messages
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I am beginning to warm to the new livery, and whilst I dont really think that the inconsistencies matter That much, it really wouldn't have taken much to sort out.

One thing that has been overlooked I think, is the new 'leaves your dishes sparkling
Clean' logo and the poor moto.
I really think that this screams massive out of touch corporate company - which is Not what the rebrand wants to achieve.

Why this generic motto? It could be anything - I don't look at the stagecoach motto and logo and think of a bus company.
costa-1.jpg
 

py_megapixel

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I am beginning to warm to the new livery, and whilst I dont really think that the inconsistencies matter That much, it really wouldn't have taken much to sort out.

One thing that has been overlooked I think, is the new 'leaves your dishes sparkling
Clean' logo and the poor moto.
I really think that this screams massive out of touch corporate company - which is Not what the rebrand wants to achieve.

Why this generic motto? It could be anything - I don't look at the stagecoach motto and logo and think of a bus company.
What motto are you referring to? As far as I'm aware it's "greener smarter travel" - that's not really generic at all. (Though, it does sound a bit corporate).
 

Jordan Adam

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What motto are you referring to? As far as I'm aware it's "greener smarter travel" - that's not really generic at all. (Though, it does sound a bit corporate).

Quite fitting on the back of a MAN 18.240 pouring out a huge cloud of black smoke too...
 

507021

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Chester
I don't think that's the case. You are fully entitled to be negative as long as you meet the forum rules, which you did. Most people on this board have been pretty negative about the new schemes. Are the the very detail differences (e.g. colour of light clusters) that important? I'd say probably not as that's not the biggest issue with the new image. As I said earlier, my understanding was to move from a plethora of totally different liveries to a base of just 3 with the occasional non-standard one.

Take @tbtc and the mention of the various coach liveries. We have the X5, the Falcon, the Oxford Tube - there's no reason why they can't have a standard Stagecoach livery that can have the route/brand specifics added on. That's not the point - the issue is that they've elected to choose something that in no way looks premium....

That there were so many variations of Stagecoach livery, including different green options depending if you're on a Manc hybrid, a Lakes e400 or a Sussex one, illustrates part of the issue that they were trying to resolve. They just haven't made a very good job of it.

I don't think it's important, but it's disappointing. As some who's autistic, I find noticing the minor differences in detail just as easy as the major ones.

Personally, I think the issue with the new image is that it looks cheap. The whole point of a new image is to make it better than the one it's replacing, and Stagecoach's new one is absolutely dreadful. In my opinion, it's the worst one out of any of the largest operators in the country.

Agreed - there were some bad applications of the "beachball" livery - ideally the rear orange and red "swoops" were meant to extend below the white onto the dark blue, with the red finishing some distance behind the orange. Some applications have the orange finishing without intruding into the dark blue, some have the red and orange swoops finishing at the same "point", some have a thin white band between the red and orange, some have the red touching the orange...

...and the less said about the "swoops" at the front of buses, the better! Some absolute shockers there, no consistency over whether there's an orange swoop as well as the blue one at the front...

e.g. this Scania in Kirkcaldy looks like a cheap Chinese copy of a Stagecoach bus - the front blue swoop squiggling all over the place, the red at the rear finishing at a different level to the orange - amazing!


So I'm not claiming that the old livery was perfect or uniform or that there was no reason to change it - I'm not hung up on it (I grew up in the "stripes" era, so have no particular attachment to "beachball").

I can see that the new colours look quite "fresh", it could be quite a nice combination (that said, I liked the yellow/ blue/ green First Edinburgh livery, twenty years ago). But it's been badly designed, doesn't suit the shape of a bus and can't be consistently applied - a shame, as it feels like an unforced error. Stagecoach used to be very good at liveries - look at how their three train liveries simply got across the message that they were all Stagecoach but different levels of speed/comfort.

I did like the standard Beachball livery, but the amount of different variations, some of which were very poorly applied, was absolutely bizarre. Personally I think the same could be said for Arriva North East, whose absolutely dreadful applications of the "Interurban" livery have to be the worst repaints I've ever seen.




Going back on topic, for those interested, vehicles in the new livery in my local Stagecoach division are as follows.

Chester: 36819.
Gillmoss: 24136, 24170, 24176-177, 24179.
Preston: 27114, 27896.
Rock Ferry: 15584.
 
Last edited:

507021

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Chester
Not sure if this is the right place to post it, but I've compiled a list of all the buses in the 2020 liveries.

LOCAL

Enviro 400 MMC

10705 South East
10711 South East
10717 South East
10718 South East
10734 East Midlands
10735 East Midlands
10744 East Midlands
10745 East Midlands
10746 East Midlands
11259 Manchester
11298 North East
11299 North East
11300 North East
11501 North East
11502 North East
11503 North East
11504 Manchester
11505 Manchester
11506 Manchester
11507 Manchester
11508 Manchester
11509 Manchester
11510 Manchester
11511 Manchester
11512 Manchester
11513 Manchester
11514 Manchester
11515 Manchester
11516 Manchester
11517 Manchester
11518 Manchester
11519 Manchester
11520 Manchester
11521 Manchester
11522 Manchester
11523 Manchester
11524 Manchester
11525 Manchester
11526 Manchester
11527 Manchester
11528 Manchester
11529 Manchester
11530 Manchester
11531 Manchester
11532 Manchester
11533 Manchester
11534 Manchester
11535 Manchester
11536 Manchester
11537 Manchester
11538 Manchester
11539 Manchester
11540 Manchester
11541 Manchester
11542 Manchester
11543 Manchester
11544 Manchester
11545 Manchester
11546 Manchester
11547 Manchester
11548 Manchester
11549 Manchester
11550 Manchester
11551 Manchester
11552 Manchester
11553 Manchester
11554 Manchester
11555 Manchester

Volvo B5LH Enviro 400 MMC

13045 Eastern

Scania N230UD Enviro 400

15181 South East
15435 South West
15644 Yorkshire
15645 Yorkshire
15679 Cumbria & North Lancs
15680 Cumbria & North Lancs
15685 Cumbria & North Lancs
15697 Cumbria & North Lancs
15698 Cumbria & North Lancs
15713 Yorkshire
15720 Yorkshire
15819 Cumbria & North Lancs
15824 Yorkshire
15825 Yorkshire
14826 Yorkshire
15828 Yorkshire
15829 Yorkshire
15885 South West

Scania N250UD Enviro 400 MMC

15272 South East
15276 South East
15280 South East
15283 South East
15287 South East
15329 South East

Trident Enviro 400

19046 Western
19179 North East
19230 Manchester
19231 Manchester
19232 Manchester
19233 Manchester
19242 Manchester
19249 Manchester
19258 Manchester
19440 North East
15910 Yorkshire
19645 North East
19646 North East
19670 North East
19672 North East
19680 North East
19683 North East
19684 East Midlands

MAN 18.240 Enviro 300

22539 Yorkshire
22628 Yorkshire
22630 Yorkshire
24108 North East
24117 Cumbria & North Lancs
24136 Merseyside & South Lancs
24142 South West
24145 South West
24147 South West
24151 South West
24164 East Midlands
24188 Western
24189 Western
24190 Western
24201 East Midlands

Optare Versa

25252 Eastern

Enviro 200 MMC Saloon

26013 Eastern
26015 Eastern
26021 Yorkshire
26024 Yorkshire
26026 Yorkshire
26029 Yorkshire
26082 Yorkshire
26243 South East

Enviro 300

27114 Merseyside & South Lancs
27189 East Midlands
27242 North East
27594 East Midlands
27554 West
27636 East Midlands
27705 West
27714 West
27719 West
27727 North East
27728 North East
27729 North East
27731 North East
27736 North East
27739 North East
27750 Cumbria & North Lancs
27896 Merseyside & South Lancs
27897 Merseyside & South Lancs

Scania K230UB Enviro 300

28651 Western
28690 Western

Enviro 350H

29003 Bluebird
29005 Bluebird
29006 Bluebird
29009 Bluebird
29021 Bluebird

Pointer Dart

34610 South West
34729 South West

Enviro 200

36114 East Midlands
36115 East Midlands
36116 East Midlands
36119 East Midlands
36120 East Midlands
36121 East Midlands
36134 West
36138 West
36388 West
36389 West
36390 West
36391 West
36408 Yorkshire
36409 Yorkshire
36453 East Midlands
36708 East Midlands
36819 Merseyside & South Lancs
36842 South Wales
36859 South East
37096 Cumbria & North Lancs
37124 Cumbria & North Lancs
37315 North East
37318 North East


Enviro 200 MMC

37406 South
37409 South
37411 South
37415 South
37419 South
37602 Yorkshire
37630 Oxfordshire

Wright StreetLite

39116 Yorkshire

Optare Solo

47006 Cumbria & North Lancs
47009 Cumbria & North Lancs
47140 Cumbria & North Lancs
47519 South West
47520 South West
47617 Cumbria & North Lancs

AQUA GREEN

Enviro 300

27882 East Midlands

LONG DISTANCE GOLD

Scania N230UD Enviro 400

15924 South West
15930 South West

Scania K230UB Enviro 300

28733 South Wales

Volvo B9R Plaxton Elite

53715 Highlands

Volvo B13RT Plaxton Panther

54130 Highlands
54131 Highlands
54132 Highlands
54133 Highlands
54134 Highlands
54136 Highlands
54137 Highlands

MAGICBUS

12109 Manchester
12188 Manchester
12189 Manchester
12192 Manchester
12201 Manchester

BUSWAY GREEN

Volvo B8L Enviro 400 XLB

13901 East
13902 East
13903 East
13904 East
13905 East
13906 East
13907 East
13908 East
13909 East
13910 East
13911 East
13912 East

Scania N250UD Enviro 400 MMC

15292 East
15294 East

Scania N230UD Enviro 400

15812 East
15814 East

Volvo B8RLE Eclipse Urban 2

21301 East

Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora

21363 East
21364 East
21365 East
21366 East
21367 East
21368 East

A few omissions from Merseyside & South Lancs.

15584, 24170, 24176, 24177 and 24179.
 
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