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What are the rules regarding low backed seating?

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Caaardiff

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61653 HTAFC

61653 HTAFC

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James James

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61653 HTAFC said:
Tbh I thought that transverse low-backed seating was no longer allowed. Do the 230s have "grandfather rights" on this?
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Not allowed by law? (Or not allowed by TfW?) The 345's and 710's certainly have it, and they're quite modern.
 
61653 HTAFC

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James James said:
Not allowed by law? (Or not allowed by TfW?) The 345's and 710's certainly have it, and they're quite modern.
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Not permitted by crash safety regs I thought, due to the risk of neck injury. Was under the mistaken impression that the 345s and 710s had higher backrests on the transverse bay seating with lower backs only on the longitudinal ones like the 378s have.

Seems odd that such low seats are still allowed when apparently the safety rules on new seating are so strict that most operators just stick ironing boards in.
 
Domh245

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61653 HTAFC said:
Not permitted by crash safety regs I thought, due to the risk of neck injury. Was under the mistaken impression that the 345s and 710s had higher backrests on the transverse bay seating with lower backs only on the longitudinal ones like the 378s have.

Seems odd that such low seats are still allowed when apparently the safety rules on new seating are so strict that most operators just stick ironing boards in.
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The seat backs don't seem particularly high on those aventras to me? You are right though that seat backs are regulated by standards on crashworthiness, but only transverse seating. The reason for the high backs is to prevent injuries from the head rotating backwards - a crash mode that isn't possible/likely-managable with longitudinal seating.
 
61653 HTAFC

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Domh245 said:
The seat backs don't seem particularly high on those aventras to me? You are right though that seat backs are regulated by standards on crashworthiness, but only transverse seating. The reason for the high backs is to prevent injuries from the head rotating backwards - a crash mode that isn't possible/likely-managable with longitudinal seating.
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It's a while since I've seen a photo of the interior of an Aventra, and had (perhaps falsely) remembered the transverse seats as being a similar size to the ones on Merseyrail's outgoing units. Those are at least high enough to protect against the movement you describe (unless you're Peter Crouch). The 230s look to have seats no different to the ones they had in LU days in terms of height, and I'm surprised that's permitted unless they're grandfathered in.
 
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61653 HTAFC said:
Not permitted by crash safety regs I thought, due to the risk of neck injury. Was under the mistaken impression that the 345s and 710s had higher backrests on the transverse bay seating with lower backs only on the longitudinal ones like the 378s have.
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Correct - the bay seating on 345s is high-backed.
 
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supervc-10 said:
And 50mph trams across the country.
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I think it's only Manchester now where trams do 50mph - Nottingham and Croydon have slowed there's down to 70kph and I suspect Sheffield has too (when I was last there all it seemed like the 50mph sections were now 40). Getting off topic though....
 
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Caaardiff said:
Looks like plenty of table seating to me. Although the low backed seats might not be particularly comfortable.
The layout sounds perfect for this line. It doesn't need luxury, its a commuter line.
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I wouldn't go that far. From what I could tell from the video, cycle storage amounts to stickers on a couple of tip-up seats.
 
_toommm_

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craigybagel said:
I think it's only Manchester now where trams do 50mph - Nottingham and Croydon have slowed there's down to 70kph and I suspect Sheffield has too (when I was last there all it seemed like the 50mph sections were now 40). Getting off topic though....
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Im sure there’s still 50mph running on the section to Meadowhall, specifically around the Centertainment/Ice Sheffield area.

The tram-trains might just be able to achieve 50mph on Network Rail too.
 
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arfortune said:
The trains are fitted with high back seats, not as per the video.
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Yes, if you look at some of the previous videos of them on testing you can see the high back seats through the windows (just, as they have quite a tint on them).
 
TC60054

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_toommm_ said:
Im sure there’s still 50mph running on the section to Meadowhall, specifically around the Centertainment/Ice Sheffield area.

The tram-trains might just be able to achieve 50mph on Network Rail too.
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tram-trains are 55mph between Rotherham Central and Parkgate.
the rest of the network is currently max speed 40 - but this isn't exactly relevant to D-Trains.
 
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61653 HTAFC said:
Seems odd that such low seats are still allowed when apparently the safety rules on new seating are so strict that most operators just stick ironing boards in.
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The indomitable Fainsa Sophia is actually quite low-backed, despite the way when the Grammer IC3000 (excellent though it is) came out everyone thought all seats had to be that high!

(There is a higher variant used on the Thameslink 700s in 1st, which also has a seat base that's actually thick enough that you don't feel that bar through the base).
 
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TC60054 said:
tram-trains are 55mph between Rotherham Central and Parkgate.
the rest of the network is currently max speed 40 - but this isn't exactly relevant to D-Trains.
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Thank you, I had suspected that was the case.
 
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TC60054 said:
tram-trains are 55mph between Rotherham Central and Parkgate.
the rest of the network is currently max speed 40 - but this isn't exactly relevant to D-Trains.
Click to expand...

Do you know what has happened to the 50 around Centertainment, or am I imagining things?

(It's been a few years since I've moved away from South Yorkshire so apologies if I am misremembering).
 
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Bletchleyite said:
The indomitable Fainsa Sophia is actually quite low-backed, despite the way when the Grammer IC3000 (excellent though it is) came out everyone thought all seats had to be that high!

(There is a higher variant used on the Thameslink 700s in 1st, which also has a seat base that's actually thick enough that you don't feel that bar through the base).
Click to expand...

The Fainsa Sophia is the IEP seat. Not sure what the brand name for the ironing boards is.
 
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_toommm_ said:
Do you know what has happened to the 50 around Centertainment, or am I imagining things?

(It's been a few years since I've moved away from South Yorkshire so apologies if I am misremembering).
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As far as I know the three 50 stretches (Attercliffe - Arena, Carbrook - Tinsley, Fox Lane - Birley) have been reduced to 40, whether this is temporary again as has happened several times in the past few years or permenant I'm not sure, as far as I know down to track wear but I'm not overly sure on that one.
 
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TC60054 said:
As far as I know the three 50 stretches (Attercliffe - Arena, Carbrook - Tinsley, Fox Lane - Birley) have been reduced to 40, whether this is temporary again as has happened several times in the past few years or permenant I'm not sure, as far as I know down to track wear but I'm not overly sure on that one.
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Interesting, I was worried it was the same knee jerk reaction to the Croydon accident that saw the network there reduced from 80kmh to 70kmh. Coupled with Nottinghams similar reduction in top speed (which came about when they ordered 70kmh Citadis trams to expand their fleet), and Midland metro and Edinburgh trams being 70kmh from day 1, it means that Manchester is the only 50mph tram left in the UK, other then the Sheffield tram train.
 
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Caaardiff said:
Looks like plenty of table seating to me. Although the low backed seats might not be particularly comfortable.
The layout sounds perfect for this line. It doesn't need luxury, its a commuter line.
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Our class 230's on the Marston Vale have high backed seating apart from the transverse seats.
 
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