TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

iantherev · 29 Nov 2019

As far as I know the Enviro is still with NAT. The last time I saw it was at Ystradgynlais in the summer. I don’t recall the last time I saw it in Brecon on the T6, though.

RailUK Forums

anamyd · 29 Nov 2019

iantherev said:
As far as I know the Enviro is still with NAT. The last time I saw it was at Ystradgynlais in the summer. I don’t recall the last time I saw it in Brecon on the T6, though.

thanks

Bristol LH · 29 Nov 2019

anamyd said:
thanks

The Enviro200 is still allocated to NAT's Swansea depot and still sees regular use on the T6 and other Powys County Council-contracted services based on Ystradgynlais.

anamyd · 29 Nov 2019

Bristol LH said:
The Enviro200 is still allocated to NAT's Swansea depot and still sees regular use on the T6 and other Powys County Council-contracted services based on Ystradgynlais.

thanks for that

Markdvdman · 9 Mar 2020

I was on the T1C from Cardiff to Cross Hands on Friday, and I overheard the driver saying Culverhouse Cross is being dropped he thinks from April 1st. I heard Megabus could be involved. It may just be misheard Chinese whispers but has anybody else heard any such thing?

markymark2000 · 9 Mar 2020

Markdvdman said:
I was on the T1C from Cardiff to Cross Hands on Friday, and I overheard the driver saying Culverhouse Cross is being dropped he thinks from April 1st. I heard Megabus could be involved. It may just be misheard Chinese whispers but has anybody else heard any such thing?

I could see Megabus wanting to sell connection tickets perhaps on the service with people changing in Cardiff.
I can't see Megabus being bothered about the Culverhouse Cross stop though (unless it consumes that much time and Megabus are saying they want the route sped up before selling tickets.

Markdvdman · 20 Jun 2020

Anyone know which is correct? The Trawscymru website says the T1S is suspended until further notice because of the outbreak, but Traveline says the following:

T1S- First Cymru:

Please click here to see the latest updates from First Cymru.

27/03/2020

From Sunday 29th March, this service will no longer operate.

Mind you, that may have been as it had so little passengers when it started going pear shaped I may have misinterpreted it?

Bwsbro · 20 Jun 2020

Markdvdman said:
Anyone know which is correct? The Trawscymru website says the T1S is suspended until further notice because of the outbreak, but Traveline says the following:

T1S- First Cymru:

Please click here to see the latest updates from First Cymru.

27/03/2020

From Sunday 29th March, this service will no longer operate.

Mind you, that may have been as it had so little passengers when it started going pear shaped I may have misinterpreted it?

The T1S is only suspended as per the T1C and the T9 to the airport

splashoutradio · 8 Jul 2020

I'm not sure how much publicity there has been regarding this locally, but having just had a look on the Traws Cymru website, it appears a new route (X7 "Traws Hafren") has been added to the network map. It runs from Chepstow to Bristol on Mondays to Fridays only and doesn't link up with the rest of the TC network. There is also only a small portion of the route that operates within Wales, but according to a press release it is being funded for at least 6 months following the withdrawal of Stagecoach's commercial X14 service.

English press release - https://gov.wales/key-local-bus-service-be-maintained-until-december
Datganiad i’r wasg yn Cymraeg - https://llyw.cymru/cynnal-gwasanaethau-bws-lleol-allweddol-hyd-fis-rhagfyr

markymark2000 · 8 Jul 2020

splashoutradio said:
I'm not sure how much publicity there has been regarding this locally, but having just had a look on the Traws Cymru website, it appears a new route (X7 "Traws Hafren") has been added to the network map. It runs from Chepstow to Bristol on Mondays to Fridays only and doesn't link up with the rest of the TC network. There is also only a small portion of the route that operates within Wales, but according to a press release it is being funded for at least 6 months following the withdrawal of Stagecoach's commercial X14 service.

English press release - https://gov.wales/key-local-bus-service-be-maintained-until-december
Datganiad i’r wasg yn Cymraeg - https://llyw.cymru/cynnal-gwasanaethau-bws-lleol-allweddol-hyd-fis-rhagfyr

To me, that press release reads that the T9 'Cardiff Airport Express's is coming off for 6 months and the resources from that are being used on this X7 route.

The figures are a bit baffling as well. Almost 250k passengers per year and they can't make it pay. The route must make a fair amount of money if that is the amount of passengers.
Based on very basic figures, a bus operator normally wants 100-130k per year, per bus. The SevernExpress had 3 buses on so £390,000 per year to run the service. On the 244k passengers, that means to break even, you need £1.60 per passenger. The fares aren't cheap either so I would be intrigued to see what went wrong.

Envoy · 8 Jul 2020

You note that they have changed the name from ‘Severn Express’ to ‘Traws Hafren’ - even though this is operating over the border into England and only about 2% of the people of Monmouthshire speak Welsh.

Dai Corner · 8 Jul 2020

There has been discussion in the First West of England and Stagecoach West threads as both have tried and failed to operate the Severn Express /X7/7XP commercially. See also the New Adventure thread.

Summarising, there used to be a reasonable commuter ridership as people used it to avoid tolls on the Severn bridges. Now the tolls have been abolished that has all but disappeared. There were also operating difficulties due to congestion, particularly on the M4 around Newport and around the Cribbs Causeway shopping centre as well as central Bristol. Stagecoach said they were losing £5000 a week.

carlberry · 8 Jul 2020

markymark2000 said:
To me, that press release reads that the T9 'Cardiff Airport Express's is coming off for 6 months and the resources from that are being used on this X7 route.

The figures are a bit baffling as well. Almost 250k passengers per year and they can't make it pay. The route must make a fair amount of money if that is the amount of passengers.
Based on very basic figures, a bus operator normally wants 100-130k per year, per bus. The SevernExpress had 3 buses on so £390,000 per year to run the service. On the 244k passengers, that means to break even, you need £1.60 per passenger. The fares aren't cheap either so I would be intrigued to see what went wrong.

I'd seen some of the statements previously but not the one about the T9 which makes sense, however how will people manage without the 'vital' T9 link!!!

The 250k passengers a year is for 2018-2019. Assuming that's for the financial year (April-April) then most of that was in the period when the Severn bridge had tolls. As soon as the tolls went significantly more car traffic went over the bridge including the bulk of the previous commuters. A lot of the rest of the traffic is concessions of course. First gave up and Stagecoach tried however their attempt to make it cheaper to operate and more reliable (missing Cribbs Causeway out) resulted in the usual level of objections (i.e. about 500 times the number that had ever used the service) which ended up with the them running two services to allow for the massive traffic flows from all the people who'd objected to losing the service suddenly tuning up. However they never returned!

The new X7 has the advantage of a much clearer run into Bristol until traffic builds up again after which they'll realise why First stopped using that road for it's service but does need to be searched out in Bristol as they're not using the bus station (clearly the T9 grant wont cover bus station access charges).

markymark2000 · 8 Jul 2020

carlberry said:
I'd seen some of the statements previously but not the one about the T9 which makes sense, however how will people manage without the 'vital' T9 link!!!

The 250k passengers a year is for 2018-2019. Assuming that's for the financial year (April-April) then most of that was in the period when the Severn bridge had tolls. As soon as the tolls went significantly more car traffic went over the bridge including the bulk of the previous commuters. A lot of the rest of the traffic is concessions of course. First gave up and Stagecoach tried however their attempt to make it cheaper to operate and more reliable (missing Cribbs Causeway out) resulted in the usual level of objections (i.e. about 500 times the number that had ever used the service) which ended up with the them running two services to allow for the massive traffic flows from all the people who'd objected to losing the service suddenly tuning up. However they never returned!

The new X7 has the advantage of a much clearer run into Bristol until traffic builds up again after which they'll realise why First stopped using that road for it's service but does need to be searched out in Bristol as they're not using the bus station (clearly the T9 grant wont cover bus station access charges).

Right ok so the figures aren't really apples for apples are they. I thought the tolls were off when that figure was released in which case, it's of course a very different story and it can't be compared on my figures.

tramboy · 8 Jul 2020

markymark2000 said:
The figures are a bit baffling as well. Almost 250k passengers per year and they can't make it pay. The route must make a fair amount of money if that is the amount of passengers.
Based on very basic figures, a bus operator normally wants 100-130k per year, per bus. The SevernExpress had 3 buses on so £390,000 per year to run the service. On the 244k passengers, that means to break even, you need £1.60 per passenger. The fares aren't cheap either so I would be intrigued to see what went wrong.

If the volume of customers are concessions, which I think after the removal of the bridge tolls is more than likely, as we've suggested above, that leaves the service open to two different concessionary fare schemes for reimbursement. Neither of those is particularly generous, and my understanding is that the Bristol scheme is worse than the Welsh scheme, so the volume of passes you would have to carry per trip makes this sort of service unsustainable on a commercial basis - hence the need for funding.

Can we see the T9 going back on - unlikely at present, especially as the TrawsCymru twitter feed is now promoting the 905 Rhoose rail link as the way to get to the airport! However, as WG own the airport, and this will no doubt influence bus policy towards it, I expect to see it return when there is a small flight volume back.

The key concern has to be as the original poster "splashoutradio" notes - why is the Welsh taxpayer paying for a service that has about 5 stops in Wales and spends most of its time in England!

carlberry · 8 Jul 2020

markymark2000 said:
Right ok so the figures aren't really apples for apples are they. I thought the tolls were off when that figure was released in which case, it's of course a very different story and it can't be compared on my figures.

As with most statistics it's hard to tell the truth, however it does quote 2018-2019 so I suspect at least some of it was pre tolls. Does the figure show how many people could be using the bus, yes. Does it show how many will, no - without you reintroduce tolls. Plus the post Covid move to remote working wont help either. We can say that a service that First felt justified 3 new double deckers 2016 had become a basket case it wanted to get rid of by 2019.

carlberry · 8 Jul 2020

tramboy said:
The key concern has to be as the original poster "splashoutradio" notes - why is the Welsh taxpayer paying for a service that has about 5 stops in Wales and spends most of its time in England!

The problem is that all the noise for retaining it comes from Chepstow, a lot of it from people who want to shop at Cribbs. Given Newport's new shopping centre you would think that the local council/Welsh Government would be trying to encourage them to head the other way!

Dai Corner · 8 Jul 2020

carlberry said:
The problem is that all the noise for retaining it comes from Chepstow, a lot of it from people who want to shop at Cribbs. Given Newport's new shopping centre you would think that the local council/Welsh Government would be trying to encourage them to head the other way!

Friars Walk isn't a patch on Cribbs Causeway. For something comparable you'd need to go to Cardiff.

Mention of Newport reminds me that Stagecoach and First used to serve the city hourly off-peak but the Traws Hafren doesn't so that must save a bus and a third of the operating cost. There are Newport Transport services between Chepstow and Newport but they are slower as they serve the intermediate towns and villages instead of using the M4.

Mwanesh · 8 Jul 2020

Read the new Welsh Bus Emergency Scheme. They are talking of taking control of the buses again.

tramboy · 8 Jul 2020

It's worth reading the above to see the Welsh Gov't thinking on the industry post-pandemic. The funding arrangements which mean services have increase in England & Scotland aren't present in Wales - the announcement above only came out on Thursday.

In effect, it seems that Welsh Gov't are going to use the pandemic to carry out the actions proposed in their Buses Bill (which won't get through the Senedd in this term now it seems) by exercising more control over the industry in return for restart funding. The statement mentions "partnership" a lot, but as we know in Wales, there is a belief (made more so after the Express/Padarn/GHA affairs up north) that begrudges public funding going to an industry over which there is little control. We know that WG see even the reimbursment for concessionary fares, required by law, as "funding" not as revenue for providing a statutory service!

As I posted in the "Stagecoach South Wales" discussion the other day. They aren't thinking of it, it looks likely to happen, but without franchising in law.

It all depends on what the expectations of Welsh ministers, Transport for Wales & the attitude of operators (from municipals to plcs to family run concerns), and what they can agree.

Bwsbro · 8 Jul 2020

tramboy said:
If the volume of customers are concessions, which I think after the removal of the bridge tolls is more than likely, as we've suggested above, that leaves the service open to two different concessionary fare schemes for reimbursement. Neither of those is particularly generous, and my understanding is that the Bristol scheme is worse than the Welsh scheme, so the volume of passes you would have to carry per trip makes this sort of service unsustainable on a commercial basis - hence the need for funding.

Can we see the T9 going back on - unlikely at present, especially as the TrawsCymru twitter feed is now promoting the 905 Rhoose rail link as the way to get to the airport! However, as WG own the airport, and this will no doubt influence bus policy towards it, I expect to see it return when there is a small flight volume back.

The key concern has to be as the original poster "splashoutradio" notes - why is the Welsh taxpayer paying for a service that has about 5 stops in Wales and spends most of its time in England!

The T9 should be back by August when flight numbers increase at Cardiff Airport. The service is to be operated by new Optare Metrocity vehicles which will be delivered to Cardiff soon

anthony263 · 9 Jul 2020

Bwsbro said:
The T9 should be back by August when flight numbers increase at Cardiff Airport. The service is to be operated by new Optare Metrocity vehicles which will be delivered to Cardiff soon

Which incidently do happen to look lovely from what I've seen posted on blink and twitter. Staff are getting excited to drive them

Envoy · 9 Jul 2020

anthony263 said:
Which incidently do happen to look lovely from what I've seen posted on blink and twitter. Staff are getting excited to drive them

They might make the service pay if they would actually transport non airport passengers (space permitting) between Cardiff Bay/Central and Wenvoe as they use the fast A4232 expressway route.

anthony263 · 9 Jul 2020

I agree plus an extension of 1 bus per hour to Llantwit major

TheGrandWazoo · 9 Jul 2020

anthony263 said:
I agree plus an extension of 1 bus per hour to Llantwit major

So the return of the X91 :lol:

So sad when they opened the rail station there; made the bus station less tragic

anthony263 · 11 Jul 2020

The T9 is expexted to start back running at the beginning of August so our operation staff at adventure travel are saying

Markdvdman · 24 Aug 2020

On www.trawscymru.info it now says the T1C is running 4 days a week. Click on the timetable and it says not found. Any ideas? Will we have to pre book?

This used to be my go to service from Cardiff to Cross Hands on a Friday!

Update from NAT Bus:

Updated 21/08/2020

From Thursday the 10th of September our T1C TrawsCymru service will resume operating on only a Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday initially, until further notice.

The timetable for this will be updated under our 'Covid-19' page closer to the time.

anthony263 · 26 Aug 2020

Taken from.update on adventure travels app blink the T9 will not niw be restarting on 1st September. A new start date from trawscymru is awaited

tramboy · 26 Aug 2020

With what appears to be 5 or 6 flights/day from the airport at the moment, I think anyone would argue that funds should be spent elsewhere, rather than on a 20 min headway bus service. Trawscymru themselves are promoting the 905 rail link for the airport, which should be more than sufficient for anyone currently travelling.

Still, it may mean that the "TrawsHafren" service is allowed to continue for longer, as the resource swapped to operating that instead.

anthony263 · 26 Aug 2020

The X7 is using Mercedes benz citaros so no t9 resources are being used plus its doing very well for itself

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