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Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

C J Snarzell

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Only Wimpys i have seen are sit in plated burger stuff. The one in Southend was like that. Sort of British greasy spoon crossed with american diner.

Sainsburys store in town centre is closing near to me. Dont think Sainsburys will disapear but i do find them a bit stale.

Having worked in York, there are Sainsburys Locals everywhere - two are located just five minutes walk from one another. Its almost as is they are trying to monopolise food shopping in the city.

CJ
 
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Peter Sarf

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It’s one of the miracles of the marketing industry that people have been persuaded that the thick end of three quid for a takeaway coffee represents good value.

More expensive than a pint of ale in WetherSpoons - which incidentally do a fairly cheap coffee.

Costa really has been very impressive in the way that it markets itself, designs its stores, locates and co-locates and merchandises its products. I assume that they’re some of the reasons that Coca-Cola took interest.



I think that you’re absolutely right, too. A well-maintained barista machine is superlative, but if it’s not looked after, it’ll be worse than instant. It’s absolutely analogous to well-kept real ale, and an overly warm can!

Yes, real ale is a good barometer of how well the beer cellar is run.

As others have said, Coca-Cola bought Costa Coffee last year for almost £4bn. Costa are not going anywhere.

Coffee shops exist in the same sphere as pubs. A leisure activity as much as a beverage. You're not paying £3 for a coffee, it is for the whole social experience. Just as you pay £3 for a pint of beer even though you can get a tin at home for a fraction of the price.

Greggs haven't expanded particularly rapidly and, crucially, they've not expanded with debt. They will also be fine.

That has always been what alarms me seeing businesses expanding by relying on the never never. If the venture fails you still have to pay. Much better to do as Greggs seems to have done - grow organically.

It was in a motorway service Greggs where I paid £3.20 for a steak pie which is probably around £2 at a high street Greggs.

I have found motorway service shops & eateries operate on their own rules & pricing.

I recently went to the McDonald's on the M56 Helsby services in Cheshire and they refused to accept the loyalty cards that you collect on the coffee cups - 6 x stickers gets a complementary brew.

CJ

Overheads are massive at Motorway service stations. Consequently, even in the sixties, the food was expensive and poor. Petrol was always more as well. I only go to them to use the toilet.

Personally i find some Primark stuff decent quality and lasts (and cheap too of course), i bought some of their jumpers a couple of years ago and all are still fine, wearing one right now in fact.

Whoa, steady, it is still summer. What sort of "jumper" are you wearing.

I have to say that personally I have found most of my Primark purchases dissolve quite quickly. But M&S underwear does not seem to last as well as it used to either.

Teenagers on first dates, kids’ birthday parties, and people gorging on the all you can eat buffet. Does anyone go for any other reason? :lol:

Oh really. they still do the all you can eat ?. Last I visited for that was near Marylebone decades ago. I have been missing out. I remember the technique was to stack the salad in (well on) the bowl in the correct order of layers to maximise it potential - sort of upside down pyramid.

It was a deal, The Premier league pulled the plug as the Chinese broadcasters didn't pay an instalment or something plus mutterings about Hong Kong.

Wimpy- The one on Lewisham high street opposite the 'spoons closed a couple of years ago.
Never went in, it looked so grotty inside. Plus memories about 50 years ago being treated to lunch (or dinner up north) and being violently sick after a burger and chips or whatever. It's funny how the mind makes a mental note of those things 'not good for you' / 'stay away' /'exercise extreme caution'

Not necessarily true. I have visited the same pub several times and never........

It is always the dodgy last pint, right ?.
 

birchesgreen

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Whoa, steady, it is still summer. What sort of "jumper" are you wearing.

When the post you replied to was made it was quite a bit chillier than it is today. I didn't know there were more than one sort of jumper, unless you are referring to kangaroos or something?
 

Tetchytyke

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That has always been what alarms me seeing businesses expanding by relying on the never never. If the venture fails you still have to pay. Much better to do as Greggs seems to have done - grow organically.

Businesses growing on the never-never seemingly always fails. But Costa haven't grown on the never-never, and Coca-Cola bought it because it filled a big gap in their business portfolio. Coca-Cola don't make that many purchase mistakes.
 

Journeyman

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I'd say Costa are one of the strongest brands in that sector. They may contract a bit, but I doubt they'll go anywhere.
 

Busaholic

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I'd say Costa are one of the strongest brands in that sector. They may contract a bit, but I doubt they'll go anywhere.
My town has had a Costa for about fifteen years, but has never had a Starbuck's, Pret, Caffe Nero or Coffee Republic, nor is ever likely to. There is a second Costa next to Sainsbury's just outside town which incorporates a surprisingly (to me) popular drive-through, operated by the same franchisee. A lot of the staff have been there years and they are helped by the general low quality and/or incompetence of the independents that have come and gone in the meantime, though one is okay if you're prepared to wait twenty minutes for your coffee to reach you after ordering, regardless of how busy/empty the place is. A factor that probably helped retain some Costa staff in the past under Whitbread ownership was the generous discount offered by some of their hotels e.g. the one near the Tower of London to Whitbread and concession employees and their families. The university graduate barista I knew who went there several times over the years used to enthuse about the experience: Coca-Cola will not be able to offer anything comparable.
 

RuralRambler

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Businesses growing on the never-never seemingly always fails. But Costa haven't grown on the never-never, and Coca-Cola bought it because it filled a big gap in their business portfolio. Coca-Cola don't make that many purchase mistakes.

I thought most Costa outlets were franchised?
 

dgl

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Businesses growing on the never-never seemingly always fails.

Too many companies don't realise that expanding quickly comes at a cost and a lot of the time the cost is more than the business can sustain. I'm guessing partially because these companies don't have the time to properly assess the market/business before the money runs out.

It's also false to believe that it's impossible to run a business now without any debt at all, Europe's and possibly the worlds biggest retailer of musical instruments, Thomann based (almost solely) in the village of Treppendorf in Germany, owes no money to any financial institution (their UK accounts confirm this) and even owns all the stock in the warehouse (I believe) whereas a lot of suppliers/manufacturers normally only get paid when an item sells.
 
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Dai Corner

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Too many companies don't realise that expanding quickly comes at a cost and a lot of the time the cost is more than the business can sustain. I'm guessing partially because these companies don't have the time to properly assess the market/business before the money runs out.

It's also false to believe that it's impossible to run a business now without any debt at all, Europe's and possibly the worlds biggest retailer of musical instruments, Thomann based (almost solely) in the village of Treppendorf in Germany, owes no money to any financial institution (their UK accounts confirm this) and even owns all the stock in the warehouse (I believe) whereas a lot of suppliers/manufacturers normally only get paid when an item sells.

Apple's $200bn cash pile comes to mind.
 

Tetchytyke

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I thought most Costa outlets were franchised?

A lot are, yes, which also helps disguise if one or two have to shut down. The franchise model is why you tend to see Costa in smaller market towns, where you wouldn't see other operators. That said, Starbucks increasingly use franchises too.

Too many companies don't realise that expanding quickly comes at a cost and a lot of the time the cost is more than the business can sustain.

A lot of the failures are backed by hedge funds who, by and large, don't pay the price of failure. They buy through leveraging, take their stake back out, and then the business sinks or swims. Take more out if it swims, walk on to the next sucker if it sinks. It just distorts everything, they go from a handful of outlets to 300 in a couple of years because that's what the hedgies want.

Greggs are a good example of organic growth, they steadily acquired smaller bakeries (Thurston's in Yorkshire, Birkett's in Cumbria) and used those as a base for expansion. It's only within the last 15 years they've even been bothered about having all their outlets branded as Greggs, before that they kept the local names. But look how long it took them to grow, they bought Thurston's in the 70s but only branded it Greggs in about 2000.
 

Meerkat

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A lot of the failures are backed by hedge funds who, by and large, don't pay the price of failure. They buy through leveraging, take their stake back out, and then the business sinks or swims. Take more out if it swims, walk on to the next sucker if it sinks. It just distorts everything, they go from a handful of outlets to 300 in a couple of years because that's what the hedgies want.
Do you mean hedge funds or private equity?
if you could tell me which banks will let me borrow money then pay myself off before paying them off I would be delighted!
I can assure you that private equity funds lose plenty of money on some of their investments.
If a business is viable someone will buy it out of liquidation/receivership, if it has overexpanded someone will buy the viable bit.
 

DavidGrain

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You think they would let you get your capital back? Banks don’t just hand out money without making sure you have some skin in the game.

Some years ago I was lucky in that I flew on a small airline just before they folded. It had been a buyout situation when it was set and the directors had set it up so that the loans were in the trading subsidiary but that the parent company had sufficient cash to pay off the shareholders. Sharp practice? You might think that, but it was perfectly legal. I am aware of some premier league football clubs which have the same structure with the money lent to buy the club secured by a mortgage on the stadium.
 

Tetchytyke

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You think they would let you get your capital back? Banks don’t just hand out money without making sure you have some skin in the game.

That's exactly how leveraged buyouts work. You use your capital as security to borrow money to buy a business. You then transfer the debt to the business, use the business as security, and, bingo, you have no skin in the game. The poster child for this type of takeover is Manchester United, but Mondelez's takeover of Cadbury employed exactly the same principle.
 

DB

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That's exactly how leveraged buyouts work. You use your capital as security to borrow money to buy a business. You then transfer the debt to the business, use the business as security, and, bingo, you have no skin in the game. The poster child for this type of takeover is Manchester United, but Mondelez's takeover of Cadbury employed exactly the same principle.

One of the most audacious examples proposed recently was Xerox trying to buy out the much bigger HP with a leveraged buyout - they dropped it in the end, but it dragged on for quite a while. There is something wrong with the system when a leveraged buyout of a larger company is considered in any way reasonable, with the inevitable issue of then servicing the massive debt.
 

johntea

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I know cinema has been hit hard, but I'm staggered to read Cineworld are now reporting a £1.3 BILLION loss...they would have to sell 130 million tickets at a tenner a piece just to cover that! (and of course it isn't quite as simplistic as that example!)
 

SteveM70

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I know cinema has been hit hard, but I'm staggered to read Cineworld are now reporting a £1.3 BILLION loss...they would have to sell 130 million tickets at a tenner a piece just to cover that! (and of course it isn't quite as simplistic as that example!)

They have just under 800 cinemas worldwide, so that equates to about nine grand per site per day, which doesn’t sound too outlandish
 

LOL The Irony

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I know cinema has been hit hard, but I'm staggered to read Cineworld are now reporting a £1.3 BILLION loss...they would have to sell 130 million tickets at a tenner a piece just to cover that! (and of course it isn't quite as simplistic as that example!)
They have just under 800 cinemas worldwide, so that equates to about nine grand per site per day, which doesn’t sound too outlandish
Indeed. You do have to remember that big companies win big and lose big.
 

TheEdge

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One that I KNOW is going out of business (other half worked for them) is West Cornwall Pasty Company. They are for some reason being very very quiet about it but Samworth Brothers (the owners on high) told staff the entire business will be closing (owned, franchised, stations) a few weeks ago and are currently going through redundancy consultation with their staff. Bit of a gut punch because for months they've been on about their reopening plans and then one day they announced a conference call and it was just "all redundant, bye"
 

DavidGrain

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One that I KNOW is going out of business (other half worked for them) is West Cornwall Pasty Company. They are for some reason being very very quiet about it but Samworth Brothers (the owners on high) told staff the entire business will be closing (owned, franchised, stations) a few weeks ago and are currently going through redundancy consultation with their staff. Bit of a gut punch because for months they've been on about their reopening plans and then one day they announced a conference call and it was just "all redundant, bye"

Oh dear, I am going to have to change my snack of choice when travelling home from Marylebone.
 

Techniquest

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Oh dear, I am going to have to change my snack of choice when travelling home from Marylebone.

Oh that is a shame about WCPC. Got to feel for the staff, that can't be nice. I do wish I'd actually used my loyalty card points up in Q1 2020 when I had the chance.

Hopefully they can find new jobs relatively easily, although in the current climate I can't imagine it will be easy for them :(
 

DelW

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I'll be disappointed if West Cornwall vanish, I've been a customer of theirs since the days when they had an outlet in Covent Garden with a little upstairs bar selling Cornish real ales. And in general I'd rather have one of their pasties than most other fast food takeaways.
 

TheEdge

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I'll be disappointed if West Cornwall vanish, I've been a customer of theirs since the days when they had an outlet in Covent Garden with a little upstairs bar selling Cornish real ales. And in general I'd rather have one of their pasties than most other fast food takeaways.

Sadly there is no "if" to it. They are going.
 

xotGD

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I'll be disappointed if West Cornwall vanish, I've been a customer of theirs since the days when they had an outlet in Covent Garden with a little upstairs bar selling Cornish real ales. And in general I'd rather have one of their pasties than most other fast food takeaways.
For the price of one West Cornwall pasty you can get a bag full of pasties and sausage rolls from Greggs. I've only ever used them when I could claim back on expenses.
 

jon0844

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I know cinema has been hit hard, but I'm staggered to read Cineworld are now reporting a £1.3 BILLION loss...they would have to sell 130 million tickets at a tenner a piece just to cover that! (and of course it isn't quite as simplistic as that example!)

Or sell a hundred large popcorn and drink deals a day.
 

Busaholic

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For the price of one West Cornwall pasty you can get a bag full of pasties and sausage rolls from Greggs. I've only ever used them when I could claim back on expenses.
I've lived in West Cornwall for thirty odd years, and as far as I'm concerned I'd have to be very hungry before I ever consumed the products of this company. It's not to say that every pasty down here is succulent, because there are plenty of mediocre ones around, including the products of a countywide bakery who've succeeded in keeping Greggs out of Kernow so far: I won't name them in order to protect the guilty. :)
 

61653 HTAFC

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For the price of one West Cornwall pasty you can get a bag full of pasties and sausage rolls from Greggs. I've only ever used them when I could claim back on expenses.
WCPC pasties aren't the best available and are a bit overpriced, but they're okay if I'm in the mood for one. I'd have to be pretty desperate to lower myself to any form of Greggs pasty.
 

richw

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I've lived in West Cornwall for thirty odd years, and as far as I'm concerned I'd have to be very hungry before I ever consumed the products of this company. It's not to say that every pasty down here is succulent, because there are plenty of mediocre ones around, including the products of a countywide bakery who've succeeded in keeping Greggs out of Kernow so far: I won't name them in order to protect the guilty. :)
There’s a Greggs opening soon banner gone up in Cornwall services :(
 

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