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It was twenty years ago today...(The contract for the Danish IC4 was signed)

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Bletchleyite

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One of the most amazing things about the IC3/IR4 family is that they uncouple on the move (just like slip coaches of yore!) the first time I saw it happen at Frederica station I thought a major incident had happened!

There is no physical reason why any train with an autocoupler couldn't do that (though the software may well be designed to disallow it). The reason not to do it is safety - if the rear one brakes less hard than the front one then you've got a nasty bump.
 
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Gloster

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There is no physical reason why any train with an autocoupler couldn't do that (though the software may well be designed to disallow it). The reason not to do it is safety - if the rear one brakes less hard than the front one then you've got a nasty bump.
I watched this a couple of times at Vejle, where the Struer portion uncoupled from the rear of the rest of the train. The Struer portion would always brake immediately after uncoupling and drop well back, before moving up a bit once the front portion had stopped.
 

hexagon789

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One of the most amazing things about the IC3/IR4 family is that they uncouple on the move (just like slip coaches of yore!) the first time I saw it happen at Frederica station I thought a major incident had happened!
Wow! I'd no idea they did that on the move!

That's quite an interesting operation to witness.
 

Tester

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One of the most amazing things about the IC3/IR4 family is that they uncouple on the move (just like slip coaches of yore!) the first time I saw it happen at Frederica station I thought a major incident had happened!

That is very impressive - I travel on them often and had no idea!

I presume there is a relatively low maximum speed for the operation - fun to imagine true slip working, with the front portion not serving the station.
 

hexagon789

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I presume there is a relatively low maximum speed for the operation - fun to imagine true slip working, with the front portion not serving the station.
What do you bet someone will tell us it can be done at 180! ;)
 

hexagon789

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The faster they are going, the nastier the mess if the front one brakes harder than the back one, which is the problem with traditional slip working.
I was half-joking, but I'd like to know how fast they can and how fast they actually do separate at
 

MarcVD

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Every time I saw it the train was already down to, at most, what I would describe as a brisk walking pace.
Why are they doing it like that, rather than wait until the teain has stopped ? It means they need a second driver on board from the previous train stop, doesn’t it ?
 

Gloster

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Why are they doing it like that, rather than wait until the teain has stopped ? It means they need a second driver on board from the previous train stop, doesn’t it ?
As to the first, I don’t know, but suspect that it had the advantage of clearly indicating which portion was which. For the second, the traincrew who would work to Struer would have joined at Fredericia, which was the previous stopping point, and so would already be on board.
 

hexagon789

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Every time I saw it the train was already down to, at most, what I would describe as a brisk walking pace.
About 5km/h (3mph) or so?

Perhaps that is the speed it can be done at, above that the train won't divide, a bit like the continental railway practice of only closing/locking doors at above ~10-15km/h
 

jamesontheroad

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As to the first, I don’t know, but suspect that it had the advantage of clearly indicating which portion was which. For the second, the traincrew who would work to Struer would have joined at Fredericia, which was the previous stopping point, and so would already be on board.

This is another reminder of why not only the IC3 itself but also the IC3 concept was - and is - so innovative. It is perhaps the most successful demonstration of how multiple units can be used to successfully complex routes with multiple destinations AND get the trains on and off ferries, sometimes splitting and rejoining in the process. Here's a fantastic video of the first day of public services.

 

Bletchleyite

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About 5km/h (3mph) or so?

Perhaps that is the speed it can be done at, above that the train won't divide, a bit like the continental railway practice of only closing/locking doors at above ~10-15km/h

I believe the standard door locking mechanism kicks in/releases either side of 5km/h, as an aside.

This is another reminder of why not only the IC3 itself but also the IC3 concept was - and is - so innovative. It is perhaps the most successful demonstration of how multiple units can be used to successfully complex routes with multiple destinations AND get the trains on and off ferries, sometimes splitting and rejoining in the process. Here's a fantastic video of the first day of public services.

It doesn't feel like the 90s were that long ago (cough, 30 years :) ) but that doesn't half look dated. A timeless unit design, though, purely practical.
 

hacman

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Why are they doing it like that, rather than wait until the teain has stopped ? It means they need a second driver on board from the previous train stop, doesn’t it ?

One of the key design requirements of the IC3/IR4 series of units was that they could be coupled and uncoupled very rapidly, as at the time they were used via quite a number of ro-ro ferry services. It's basically all about saving as much time as possible and avoiding any knock-on delays, as the ferry crossings already constrained journey times between major population centres.

Obviously, we now have things such as the Oresund Bridge and the Great Belt Bridge which has made this functionality somewhat obsolete - but if it's there it may as well still be used where it can keep journey times nice and tight.

This is another reminder of why not only the IC3 itself but also the IC3 concept was - and is - so innovative. It is perhaps the most successful demonstration of how multiple units can be used to successfully complex routes with multiple destinations AND get the trains on and off ferries, sometimes splitting and rejoining in the process. Here's a fantastic video of the first day of public services.


All trains in this series are excellent to be fair. The IC3, IR4, IC2 and Oresundstag all follow the same design and have performed really well over the years. They're also generally very well-liked by passengers and crew, and the full walkthrough design is excellent. Isreal and Spain have also got a decent size fleet of them.

Both outside and in they still look surprisingly modern, though that's equally a general testament to the timelessness of Denmark's design trends too! The same can be said for other Danish rolling stock, including the SA/SE series of S-Tog vehicles; which when they arrived on the scene in the early 00's looked almost science-fiction derived, with their angled bodywork, full-width LED route indicators in each car and a number of other rather smart features.

It's very much a shame that DSB chose the IC4 product rather than a continuation of this series of units; though I'm sure in hindsight they probably wish they'd done so.
 

Gloster

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One of the key design requirements of the IC3/IR4 series of units was that they could be coupled and uncoupled very rapidly, as at the time they were used via quite a number of ro-ro ferry services. It's basically all about saving as much time as possible and avoiding any knock-on delays, as the ferry crossings already constrained journey times between major population centres.

Obviously, we now have things such as the Oresund Bridge and the Great Belt Bridge which has made this functionality somewhat obsolete - but if it's there it may as well still be used where it can keep journey times nice and tight.



All trains in this series are excellent to be fair. The IC3, IR4, IC2 and Oresundstag all follow the same design and have performed really well over the years. They're also generally very well-liked by passengers and crew, and the full walkthrough design is excellent. Isreal and Spain have also got a decent size fleet of them.

Both outside and in they still look surprisingly modern, though that's equally a general testament to the timelessness of Denmark's design trends too! The same can be said for other Danish rolling stock, including the SA/SE series of S-Tog vehicles; which when they arrived on the scene in the early 00's looked almost science-fiction derived, with their angled bodywork, full-width LED route indicators in each car and a number of other rather smart features.

It's very much a shame that DSB chose the IC4 product rather than a continuation of this series of units; though I'm sure in hindsight they probably wish they'd done so.
The ability to uncouple and couple quickly was just as much because DSB planned to have a lot of portion working, as speeding up loading onto the Great Belt ferries, which were the only ones they used regularly when introduced. Once a train from Copenhagen reached Jylland it would divide at Fredericia (the east to west cut off south of Fredericia was not then open), with portions going south to the German border or west to Esbjerg, where it might divide and a portion go on up the west coast. At Vejle a portion might come off and go north-west to Struer, with possibly a portion of this continuing to Thisted. At Aarhus a section might be dropped because of lower passenger trafffic north of there. At Langå a portion might go across to Struer and at Aalborg only a portion might continue to Frederikshavn.

The sets in Spain are not IC3, they just have the rubber end connections.

Technically, the IC3 are very much the last of their generation and building more, would have had plenty of pitfalls. I have no doubt that there were those in DSB who would have preferred an IC3+, but realistically it would have been a seen as a PR disaster from the outset: the IC4 took a couple of years to be one.
 

hexagon789

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I believe the standard door locking mechanism kicks in/releases either side of 5km/h, as an aside.
For some reason I thought it was faster. But what I was trying to suggest was it a similar approach to the doors thing - splitting on the move
 

hacman

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The ability to uncouple and couple quickly was just as much because DSB planned to have a lot of portion working, as speeding up loading onto the Great Belt ferries, which were the only ones they used regularly when introduced. Once a train from Copenhagen reached Jylland it would divide at Fredericia (the east to west cut off south of Fredericia was not then open), with portions going south to the German border or west to Esbjerg, where it might divide and a portion go on up the west coast. At Vejle a portion might come off and go north-west to Struer, with possibly a portion of this continuing to Thisted. At Aarhus a section might be dropped because of lower passenger trafffic north of there. At Langå a portion might go across to Struer and at Aalborg only a portion might continue to Frederikshavn.

The sets in Spain are not IC3, they just have the rubber end connections.

Technically, the IC3 are very much the last of their generation and building more, would have had plenty of pitfalls. I have no doubt that there were those in DSB who would have preferred an IC3+, but realistically it would have been a seen as a PR disaster from the outset: the IC4 took a couple of years to be one.

Agreed, but the Great Belt was a major aspect as all services from Sjælland to Jutland passed this pinch point - and that was a substantial amount of traffic.

There were also services into Germany (Hamburg I believe) that used the ferry. I can’t remember if they went over to Sweden on that ferry though, as I didn’t get up there very often at the time.

The Spanish sets are more related to IC3 than just the rubber end connections, sharing very similar bodywork and quite a bit of other hardware, just where required adapted to the Iberian gauge. Some have oddly had the front end connections removed now as they’ve been refurbished.

Sadly in terms of them being the last of their generation, this is very likely as they were quite specialised, and that’s not the way rolling stock orders are done now.

At the time it may not have been as much of a PR disaster as you might think to commission an updated version, as the IR4 and Øresundståg variants were generally well received - and indeed featured a number of improvements too (such as the low floor flex-area). And nothing could have ended up being as much of a PR disaster as IC4.

It’s all a bit crazy really, as AnsaldoBreda have such a mixed reputation; having delivered some excellent projects in terms of their DriverlessMetro platform, but have utterly failed on this, Fyra, NSB type 72, multiple tram orders, and other things. I bet some interesting conversations were had during the Hitachi merger!
 

Gloster

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There were also services into Germany (Hamburg I believe) that used the ferry. I can’t remember if they went over to Sweden on that ferry though, as I didn’t get up there very often at the time.
Unless my mind is completely gone, the use of IC3 on services to Hamburg via the Rødby-Puttgarden ferry were a longterm aspiration and they continued to be worked by loco and coaches until 1997, although some trains had gone over to IC3 in 1993. The IC3 did get to Flensburg in their early days, as this was part of the Intercity Network.
 

Gag Halfrunt

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Eleven IC4 units are now for sale.

Up to four trainsets can be coupled together into a single train. However, it is recommended these DMU are used as a four car train set only to ensure maximum reliability.
 

Bletchleyite

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They have been for sale since the summer. It would be surprising if there was much interest, although they might just go to an operator who only wanted a very basic train.

Operators wanting a very basic train are better off with a middle-aged diesel locomotive and some "fresh air" RIC coaches, of which there is no particular shortage.
 

superalbs

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Eleven IC4 units are now for sale.
Love that caption!

My favourite has to be: "these DMU train sets are in very good working order and have been maintained to a very high standard to ensure they meet the day to day demands of a modern rail network with precise timetabling"
 

Gloster

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Love that caption!

My favourite has to be: "these DMU train sets are in very good working order and have been maintained to a very high standard to ensure they meet the day to day demands of a modern rail network with precise timetabling"
Well, they have had an awful lot of effort and money expended on them.
 

JonasB

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All trains in this series are excellent to be fair. The IC3, IR4, IC2 and Oresundstag all follow the same design and have performed really well over the years. They're also generally very well-liked by passengers and crew, and the full walkthrough design is excellent. Isreal and Spain have also got a decent size fleet of them.

The Öresundståg are pretty different, and apart from the rubber ends more related to the Swedish Regina-trains (X50-X55).

There were also services into Germany (Hamburg I believe) that used the ferry. I can’t remember if they went over to Sweden on that ferry though, as I didn’t get up there very often at the time.

I don't know if any Danish IC3s used the ferry to Sweden. But the Swedish Y2s used the ferry on the Karlskrona-Copenhagen route.
 

Gloster

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I don't know if any Danish IC3s used the ferry to Sweden. But the Swedish Y2s used the ferry on the Karlskrona-Copenhagen route.
I don’t think the IC3 ever used the ferries to Sweden in passenger service. A few were fitted with Swedish cabsignalling both to help out due to the shortage of Øresund sets when the bridge was opened and to work the Copenhagen-Ystad trains that connected with the boats to Bornholm. The Y2 did use the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry for a while, including the older ships, albeit briefly, (if I remember correctly).
 

JonasB

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The Y2 did use the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry for a while, including the older ships, albeit briefly, (if I remember correctly).

You are correct, a few where fitted with danish signalling and redesignated Y2K. When the Blekinge coast line was electrified and the Öresund bridge opened they were not needed anymore and were sold to DSB.
 
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