Guard Training overview

atochopefull · 27 Dec 2020

Can anyone provide an overview of what to expect from Guard training. How much classroom time? How much practical training? What exams are involved? Success/failure rate? Of course I expect things to be different because of Covid, but any info greatly appreciated

RailUK Forums

skyhigh · 28 Dec 2020

Which TOC? I suspect the course structure will differ between different companies

Intermodal · 28 Dec 2020

atochopefull said:
Can anyone provide an overview of what to expect from Guard training. How much classroom time? How much practical training? What exams are involved? Success/failure rate? Of course I expect things to be different because of Covid, but any info greatly appreciated

Failure rate for guards at my TOC is basically nonexistent. I would suggest it's probably something like 60-70% theory to practical, with the practical mostly being towards the end of the course. Of course you do a lot of practical work with an instructor after you leave training school, but that isn't technically part of training.

Different TOCs will vary a lot on each of these factors.

BrokenSam · 28 Dec 2020

Intermodal said:
Failure rate for guards at my TOC is basically nonexistent. I would suggest it's probably something like 60-70% theory to practical, with the practical mostly being towards the end of the course. Of course you do a lot of practical work with an instructor after you leave training school, but that isn't technically part of training.

Different TOCs will vary a lot on each of these factors.

Usually approx. 10 weeks in classroom then route leaning, which can vary dramatically.

atochopefull · 28 Dec 2020

skyhigh said:
Which TOC? I suspect the course structure will differ between different companies

West Midlands Trains

Intermodal said:
Failure rate for guards at my TOC is basically nonexistent. I would suggest it's probably something like 60-70% theory to practical, with the practical mostly being towards the end of the course. Of course you do a lot of practical work with an instructor after you leave training school, but that isn't technically part of training.

Different TOCs will vary a lot on each of these factors.

Thanks, that’s helpful.

BrokenSam said:
Usually approx. 10 weeks in classroom then route leaning, which can vary dramatically.

Is route learning exactly what it sounds like, you simply have to learn stations along the way?

Horizon22 · 28 Dec 2020

atochopefull said:
West Midlands Trains

Thanks, that’s helpful.

Is route learning exactly what it sounds like, you simply have to learn stations along the way?

Stations, signal locations, length of platforms, junction information etc.

skyhigh · 28 Dec 2020

atochopefull said:
Is route learning exactly what it sounds like, you simply have to learn stations along the way?

Stations (including any access issues, dispatch methods, ticket office locations, platform lengths, starting signals etc), junctions, names and directions of running lines, tunnels, type of signalling in use, any local instructions etc

atochopefull · 28 Dec 2020

skyhigh said:
Stations (including any access issues, dispatch methods, ticket office locations, platform lengths, starting signals etc), junctions, names and directions of running lines, tunnels, type of signalling in use, any local instructions etc

Quite involved then. I can see why it would take 10 weeks.

Mak1981 · 28 Dec 2020

atochopefull said:
Quite involved then. I can see why it would take 10 weeks.

That's not the route learning taking 10 weeks, that's the classroom stuff, route learning is done after and depends on how many routes you need to learn,

Class room stuff will include pts, company procedures, rules, revenue etc taking around 8 to10 weeks

Then you have route learning(length determined by how many routes you need to learn, anything from a few weeks to few months), traction training(upto a week per traction though maybe only a couple of days after your first one), back end turns say another two weeks then final tests

All in 4 to 6 months give or take

atochopefull · 28 Dec 2020

Mak1981 said:
That's not the route learning taking 10 weeks, that's the classroom stuff, route learning is done after and depends on how many routes you need to learn,

Class room stuff will include pts, company procedures, rules, revenue etc taking around 8 to10 weeks

Then you have route learning(length determined by how many routes you need to learn, anything from a few weeks to few months), traction training(upto a week per traction though maybe only a couple of days after your first one), back end turns say another two weeks then final tests

All in 4 to 6 months give or take

Thanks, that’s really helpful. Hopefully we’ll be able to learn this stuff in the classroom and not over Zoom or Teams!

185 · 29 Dec 2020

atochopefull said:
West Midlands Trains

Week 1, 3-day induction at training centre (TC), then 2 day PTS, usually Tyseley depot.
Week 2 & 3 rules course (TC).
In local depot, rules exam with manager - then with local conductor instructors (aka minders) weeks 4,5,6,7 learning routes and traction - number of weeks dependant on depot & routes signed.
Weeks 8 & 9... 2-week retail course (TC)
More route learning, train working experience for several weeks with conductor instructors
Final signoff, first with local depot manager - 2 rideout days & signoff with area manager & ops standards.

So... 3 months... ish. Factor in extra time due to Covid.

Very few fail, if you're sensible enough to ask for advice on here, you probably nothing to worry about.

atochopefull · 29 Dec 2020

185 said:
Week 1, 3-day induction at training centre (TC), then 2 day PTS, usually Tyseley depot.
Week 2 & 3 rules course (TC).
In local depot, rules exam with manager - then with local conductor instructors (aka minders) weeks 4,5,6,7 learning routes and traction - number of weeks dependant on depot & routes signed.
Weeks 8 & 9... 2-week retail course (TC)
More route learning, train working experience for several weeks with conductor instructors
Final signoff, first with local depot manager - 2 rideout days & signoff with area manager & ops standards.

So... 3 months... ish. Factor in extra time due to Covid.

Very few fail, if you're sensible enough to ask for advice on here, you probably nothing to worry about.

Thanks for this, just what I was after! One further question, what does PTS stand for?

ComUtoR · 29 Dec 2020

Personal Track Safety

185 · 29 Dec 2020

You normally will get the PTS booklet sent to you, in the welcome pack to revise from before starting. Fairly self explanatory, common sense answers regarding basic procedures when down on the track. Think this is still the case.

atochopefull · 29 Dec 2020

185 said:
You normally will get the PTS booklet sent to you, in the welcome pack to revise from before starting. Fairly self explanatory, common sense answers regarding basic procedures when down on the track. Think this is still the case.

Ah ok thanks. Makes sense.

BrokenSam · 30 Dec 2020

Personally felt there was more to it then that. To each there own.

AJSWEY · 2 Jan 2021

185 said:
Week 1, 3-day induction at training centre (TC), then 2 day PTS, usually Tyseley depot.
Week 2 & 3 rules course (TC).
In local depot, rules exam with manager - then with local conductor instructors (aka minders) weeks 4,5,6,7 learning routes and traction - number of weeks dependant on depot & routes signed.
Weeks 8 & 9... 2-week retail course (TC)
More route learning, train working experience for several weeks with conductor instructors
Final signoff, first with local depot manager - 2 rideout days & signoff with area manager & ops standards.

So... 3 months... ish. Factor in extra time due to Covid.

Very few fail, if you're sensible enough to ask for advice on here, you probably nothing to worry about.

Hi 185

Do you know if this is similar programme for SWR please?

Inthe4foot · 2 Jan 2021

2 weeks rules? seems a little light To cover everything surely it’s more then 10 days? I’m sure mine was 4/5 weeks but was a bit ago lol.

185 · 3 Jan 2021

AJSWEY said:
Hi 185

Do you know if this is similar programme for SWR please?

Not too sure, but wouldn't be surprised, everywhere does the course a little different but the elements are the same.

Inthe4foot said:
2 weeks rules? seems a little light To cover everything surely it’s more then 10 days? I’m sure mine was 4/5 weeks but was a bit ago lol.

The guards courses just prior to Covid were actually just over two weeks (2w2d), but still longer than my first rules course some decades ago, mine was *less* than two weeks, however it was during a strike.

djack123son · 3 Jan 2021

AJSWEY said:
Hi 185

Do you know if this is similar programme for SWR please?

Doing guard training with SWR atm..

4 full weeks classroom learning, pace fairly slow.
then (currently, no. of tractions signed going to drastically reduce soon (lol, as if 701s will arrive anytime soon), another 4 weeks train working
then 4 weeks-ish route learning before being signed off productive following route assessments

AJSWEY · 3 Jan 2021

djack123son said:
Doing guard training with SWR atm..

4 full weeks classroom learning, pace fairly slow.
then (currently, no. of tractions signed going to drastically reduce soon (lol, as if 701s will arrive anytime soon), another 4 weeks train working
then 4 weeks-ish route learning before being signed off productive following route assessments

Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to it! Only issue I'm going to have is getting there for 0845. First train up from Weymouth don't arrive in to Basingstoke until 0835!

cebz9 · 9 Jan 2021

atochopefull said:
Ah ok thanks. Makes sense.

When do you start and what depot will you be at?

atochopefull · 9 Jan 2021

cebz9 said:
When do you start and what depot will you be at?

Due to start Feb 15 and based at Bletchley. You?

cebz9 · 17 Jan 2021

atochopefull said:
Due to start Feb 15 and based at Bletchley. You?

Wow lucky you. I technically started in October but I don’t actually start training until feb 22nd at new street. Hope you enjoy the training, I know I’m excited for it

butch · 17 Jan 2021

cebz9 said:
Wow lucky you. I technically started in October but I don’t actually start training until feb 22nd at new street. Hope you enjoy the training, I know I’m excited for i

Congratulations on getting the job mate. I saw an advertisement at the end end of November and i have put an application in myself. On the website it says my application is in progress so fingers crossed as i really want this job. Please keep me updated on how things go with the job and any tips regarding interview and the test process would be greatly appreciated that's if i am lucky enough to progress to that stage.....good luck with the job mate

atochopefull · 18 Jan 2021

butch said:
Congratulations on getting the job mate. I saw an advertisement at the end end of November and i have put an application in myself. On the website it says my application is in progress so fingers crossed as i really want this job. Please keep me updated on how things go with the job and any tips regarding interview and the test process would be greatly appreciated that's if i am lucky enough to progress to that stage.....good luck with the job mate

Many thanks. Yes, will keep you informed. In the meantime, good luck with your application!

cebz9 said:
Wow lucky you. I technically started in October but I don’t actually start training until feb 22nd at new street. Hope you enjoy the training, I know I’m excited for it

Thanks. Does that mean you’ve been paid while waiting to start your course?

cebz9 · 18 Jan 2021

butch said:
Congratulations on getting the job mate. I saw an advertisement at the end end of November and i have put an application in myself. On the website it says my application is in progress so fingers crossed as i really want this job. Please keep me updated on how things go with the job and any tips regarding interview and the test process would be greatly appreciated that's if i am lucky enough to progress to that stage.....good luck with the job mate

Where have you applied for? I also think that you will be waiting for a long time because the amount of conductors that are waiting to be train is insane. There is a long long list.

I’ll keep you updated when things start moving for me. I know that there is a new course that has started today mainly for snow hill lines. If they’re reading this now or even people who have just been trained then they could also give you an insight

Also thanks, I wish you luck with your application too

atochopefull said:
Many thanks. Yes, will keep you informed. In the meantime, good luck with your application!

Thanks. Does that mean you’ve been paid while waiting to start your course?

Yes thankfully, however I’m originally from leicester and I needed to relocate for the job. So although I’ve been getting paid, I’m paying rent to do absolutely nothing. I could’ve stayed at home and saved money

butch · 29 Jan 2021

cebz9 said:
Where have you applied for? I also think that you will be waiting for a long time because the amount of conductors that are waiting to be train is insane. There is a long long list.

I’ll keep you updated when things start moving for me. I know that there is a new course that has started today mainly for snow hill lines. If they’re reading this now or even people who have just been trained then they could also give you an insight

Also thanks, I wish you luck with your application too

Yes thankfully, however I’m originally from leicester and I needed to relocate for the job. So although I’ve been getting paid, I’m paying rent to do absolutely nothing. I could’ve stayed at home and saved money

i have applied for Birmingham

cebz9 said:
Where have you applied for? I also think that you will be waiting for a long time because the amount of conductors that are waiting to be train is insane. There is a long long list.

I’ll keep you updated when things start moving for me. I know that there is a new course that has started today mainly for snow hill lines. If they’re reading this now or even people who have just been trained then they could also give you an insight

Also thanks, I wish you luck with your application too

Yes thankfully, however I’m originally from leicester and I needed to relocate for the job. So although I’ve been getting paid, I’m paying rent to do absolutely nothing. I could’ve stayed at home and saved money

yes please keep me informed thank you so much....sorry i took so long to reply

cebz9 said:
Where have you applied for? I also think that you will be waiting for a long time because the amount of conductors that are waiting to be train is insane. There is a long long list.

I’ll keep you updated when things start moving for me. I know that there is a new course that has started today mainly for snow hill lines. If they’re reading this now or even people who have just been trained then they could also give you an insight

Also thanks, I wish you luck with your application too

Yes thankfully, however I’m originally from leicester and I needed to relocate for the job. So although I’ve been getting paid, I’m paying rent to do absolutely nothing. I could’ve stayed at home and saved money

yes please keep me informed thank you so much....sorry i took so long to reply

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