Return to Education

I see that Owen Jones is wanting schools to close - easy for a 36 year old journalist without kids to say (he might block me for saying that).

sjpowermac said:

Yes, I congratulate you on your finds.

I think the key difference is that I’m prepared to put my hand up and admit that I’ve been wrong. I’m also prepared to admit when I’ve changed my mind. That’s something that you and many others on these threads seem singularly unwilling to do.

As Keynes once said “when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do, Sir?” It seems that on these threads admitting to being wrong is seen as a weakness, but is that really so?

You clearly didn’t check my posts carefully enough to see this more recent one:


Seemingly much better, in your blinkered view, to plough on regardless, twist/turn/shrink, rather than saying ‘yes, I got that wrong’. Don’t worry though, you are not alone, there are plenty of others doing the same...

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Not that I have been involved much in this - but I really respect this post, and I fully agree that it is perfectly reasonable to change your opinion on the discovery of new evidence.

Hope none of this is a repeat from upthread but I've just noticed this. It is interesting (and somewhat annoying) to learn that some Headteachers, and the National Association of Headteachers (NAHT) has commenced the process of taking legal action to close all schools nationally, not just in London and SE, on the grounds of safety (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears)

The government faces a major revolt from teachers and headteachers over its plans to reopen schools.

Headteachers began legal action against the Department for Education on Saturday in an attempt to force ministers to reveal why they think it is safe to reopen schools on Monday, given the higher transmissibility of the new Covid-19 variant, particularly among children.

The National Association of Headteachers (NAHT) and the Association of School and College Leaders have instructed lawyers to write to the government, giving it until the end of the working day on Monday to share any information and scientific data that suggests it is safe for schools to return.

The NAHT also plans to issue guidance to headteachers, which will recommend they take no action against staff who refuse to return to work because they feel it is unsafe.

Unions representing teachers and support staff have called for remote learning. In a letter to the education secretary, Gavin Williamson, the NASUWT general secretary, Dr Patrick Roach, states it is “the only sensible and credible option at this time to minimise the risks to those working in schools and to safeguard public health”.

The Observer understands that the UK’s largest teaching union is also poised to caution teachers not to return to their classrooms on Monday over safety fears.

The NEU, which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.

It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils.
The union will provide members with a template letter to send to headteachers, explaining they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996.

Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises.

The government is expecting primary schools in England to reopen in two days, with the exception of schools in London and local authorities in the south where Covid-19 transmission rates are high, after another U-turn on Friday.

Secondary school pupils in their exam year in England are due to return on 11 January, the date most schools in Wales will also reopen. A week later, on 18 January, all other secondary school students in England are due back, along with all schools in Scotland.
Kevin Courtney, the joint general secretary of the NEU, said the government was being reckless and ignoring the advice of its own experts on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage).

He said it was clear from the minutes of the latest Sage meeting, published on New Year’s Eve, that scientists had told ministers before Christmas that schools must be closed to contain the new, highly transmissible coronavirus variant.

The minutes from 22 December state that “R would be lower with schools closed” and that it was highly unlikely that the government would be able to maintain R below 1 in the presence of the new variant if schools remain open, with further analysis only possible after the impact of the school holidays on transmission rates is known in mid-January.

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The article goes on but you get the general point, but it goes on and says this:

Courtney said ministers in the Department for Education were so “ideologically committed” to exams going ahead that they were prioritising school attendance over the measures needed to suppress virus transmission, which was causing more disruption to pupils’ education overall. “It’s so shortsighted,” he said.

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We really do seem to have got our priorities in a twist. The only reason having schools open could be more disruptive to education is because in some schools like my local secondary, whole year groups get sent home for two weeks at a time once one positive case is detected. It is not sustainable to operate like that. I suspect once teachers have had their vaccinations the concern of schoolkids spreading it back home will get less support from these unions all of a sudden..

yorkie said:

I also agree that the majority of school staff do want to keep schools open.

The overwhelming majority of parents want to keep schools open.

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I don't usually get involved in Covid related discussion but I must admit that this caught my attention a little bit, mainly because I was quite surprised by it.

Are there actually some facts and figures to back these claims up because I have to be honest, that is not the feeling I am getting. On another (very different) forum I post on, I would say that 100% of parents and grandparents on there are demanding that schools remain closed and next week with the vast majority of non-parents backing them. Now, I'm not claiming that this in anyway speaks for the population but it is quite weird that I go from that forum to this forum and find such differing claims. Equally, media outlets seem to be pointing towards the fact that teachers don't feel that schools should be reopening.

For the record, schools being open or closed does not impact me in any way so I don't really have an active involvement but I was just intrigued when I read these statements

The_Train said:

I don't usually get involved in Covid related discussion but I must admit that this caught my attention a little bit, mainly because I was quite surprised by it.

Are there actually some facts and figures to back these claims up because I have to be honest, that is not the feeling I am getting. On another (very different) forum I post on, I would say that 100% of parents and grandparents on there are demanding that schools remain closed and next week with the vast majority of non-parents backing them. Now, I'm not claiming that this in anyway speaks for the population but it is quite weird that I go from that forum to this forum and find such differing claims. Equally, media outlets seem to be pointing towards the fact that teachers don't feel that schools should be reopening.

For the record, schools being open or closed does not impact me in any way so I don't really have an active involvement but I was just intrigued when I read these statements

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Certainly social media I’ve seen seems to be noticeably more biased towards parents not wanting to return their children to school, citing that it’s too dangerous.

I work in a college with boarding for SEN students aged 16-22. All the staff are relieved we will be back on Monday. I am not sure if boarding students from tier four are allowed to travel back; I would expect some parents of the small number of medically vulnerable students may want to keep their children off. I would expect at least 90% attendance on Monday.

The_Train said:

I don't usually get involved in Covid related discussion but I must admit that this caught my attention a little bit, mainly because I was quite surprised by it.

Are there actually some facts and figures to back these claims up because I have to be honest, that is not the feeling I am getting. On another (very different) forum I post on, I would say that 100% of parents and grandparents on there are demanding that schools remain closed and next week with the vast majority of non-parents backing them. Now, I'm not claiming that this in anyway speaks for the population but it is quite weird that I go from that forum to this forum and find such differing claims. Equally, media outlets seem to be pointing towards the fact that teachers don't feel that schools should be reopening.

For the record, schools being open or closed does not impact me in any way so I don't really have an active involvement but I was just intrigued when I read these statements

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bramling said:

Certainly social media I’ve seen seems to be noticeably more biased towards parents not wanting to return their children to school, citing that it’s too dangerous.

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I do suspect the "pro-return" parents are a bit of a silent majority.

Frankly, most parents have jobs to be going to/getting on with, which are a darn sight easier with kids at school (especially young ones).

Ianno87 said:

I do suspect the "pro-return" parents are a bit of a silent majority.

Frankly, most parents have jobs to be going to/getting on with, which are a darn sight easier with kids at school (especially young ones).

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I suspect you’re right about the silent majority. As with many aspect of all this, they who hold the minority views seem to shout the loudest.

As regards the second point, some of these people will quite happily pick up the phone and decree that they can’t attend work due to childcare issues. How convenient.

bramling said:

As regards the second point, some of these people will quite happily pick up the phone and decree that they can’t attend work due to childcare issues. How convenient.

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Unfortunately the reality if your child can't attend school if unwell - schools are properly strict about such things nowadays.

Ianno87 said:

Unfortunately the reality if your child can't attend school if unwell - schools are properly strict about such things nowadays.

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Perhaps I shouldn’t be so cynical, however it’s hard not to be when we have a couple at my place who have over the Christmas period conveniently had a whole string of young household members exhibit Covid symptoms, and who each mysteriously seem to have the symptoms present themselves exactly 10 days after the previous one!

The_Train said:

I don't usually get involved in Covid related discussion but I must admit that this caught my attention a little bit, mainly because I was quite surprised by it.

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A very wise decision not to get involved, these threads make the Mk5a threads look like a walk in the park, I sometimes long for the days of ‘oooh, those 68s do make a lot of noise’

Are there actually some facts and figures to back these claims up because I have to be honest, that is not the feeling I am getting. On another (very different) forum I post on, I would say that 100% of parents and grandparents on there are demanding that schools remain closed and next week with the vast majority of non-parents backing them. Now, I'm not claiming that this in anyway speaks for the population but it is quite weird that I go from that forum to this forum and find such differing claims. Equally, media outlets seem to be pointing towards the fact that teachers don't feel that schools should be reopening.

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I think it’s actually very difficult to answer your question. What I can tell you is that in before the summer holidays I rang the parents of all the kids in my form group and all were delighted that their children were going back to school, as were the majority of children themselves.

I didn’t detect any change in this during the term, either from my dealings with parents or speaking to pupils. When some of the Year 11 (GCSE exam year) were told that they had to self isolate, they were literally in tears (that was in early December).

What the situation is currently with parents/students I honestly couldn’t say with complete certainty.

Regarding teachers, pretty much everyone, myself included, was relieved to be back in September. I didn’t hear anyone say otherwise during the term. I also didn’t hear anyone complaining about ‘safety’ despite the fact that’s there’s practically no social distancing in schools and you are often in quite small classrooms with up to 32 students for an hour, all without masks (compare and contrast with other workplaces that are open).

Regarding how teachers currently view things, I can only tell you how my immediate 12 colleagues think. Five are pretty resigned to it all and expressed some concerns, five were not bothered at all (I include myself there), and two did raise concerns, but I very much doubt they would stay away. Not very scientific but the best I can offer!

bramling said:

Perhaps I shouldn’t be so cynical, however it’s hard not to be when we have a couple at my place who have over the Christmas period conveniently had a whole string of young household members exhibit Covid symptoms, and who each mysteriously seem to have the symptoms present themselves exactly 10 days after the previous one!

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Have many at your work had to isolate because of being notified by the app? A couple of people at my work have ‘hit the jackpot’ twice with that. I’ve been scanning everywhere and not so much as a murmur!

sjpowermac said:

A very wise decision not to get involved, these threads make the Mk5a threads look like a walk in the park, I sometimes long for the days of ‘oooh, those 68s do make a lot of noise’

I think it’s actually very difficult to answer your question. What I can tell you is that in before the summer holidays I rang the parents of all the kids in my form group and all were delighted that their children were going back to school, as were the majority of children themselves.

I didn’t detect any change in this during the term, either from my dealings with parents or speaking to pupils. When some of the Year 11 (GCSE exam year) were told that they had to self isolate, they were literally in tears (that was in early December).

What the situation is currently with parents/students I honestly couldn’t say with complete certainty.

Regarding teachers, pretty much everyone, myself included, was relieved to be back in September. I didn’t hear anyone say otherwise during the term. I also didn’t hear anyone complaining about ‘safety’ despite the fact that’s there’s practically no social distancing in schools and you are often in quite small classrooms with up to 32 students for an hour, all without masks (compare and contrast with other workplaces that are open).

Regarding how teachers currently view things, I can only tell you how my immediate 12 colleagues think. Five are pretty resigned to it all and expressed some concerns, five were not bothered at all (I include myself there), and two did raise concerns, but I very much doubt they would stay away. Not very scientific but the best I can offer!

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Apologies, I don't know how to split quote a post now it's changed
In response to the first bit - what we'd all give to be choking on this fumes under the shed at Lime Street now. Think I'd take a bit of 68 diesel on the lungs than this virus

Thanks for the detail on your experiences, certainly adds something to what I've seen elsewhere. Again, I am going off postings I've been reading elsewhere where one of the posters is a teacher - I assume at a college based on how he comes across - and he is definitely for a delay in reopening schools/colleges. Then on the other hand, another person (who is vehemently anti-everything) has recently posted to say that his girlfriend is being told they will be going back in next week (she is a teacher just to clear up any doubt - ) but all teachers will be required to undertake weekly tests with disciplinary action if they refuse. He is now trying to find out if this is possible on a legal level which I find bizarre considering he is very much pro-schools opening but because of his anti-establishment views, isn't keen on his girlfriend being forced into a test. I imagine he is the sort who wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was voluntary, probably encouraging her to do so, but because it is being 'forced' he is vastly against it. Kind of shows all ends of the scale really!

In terms of the return in September, it's possibly difficult to compare to now as that was a return after months of being stuck at home with teaching via video link as good as it got. I can see how everyone would be relieved to head back to something closer to normality. Things are changing again at the moment and, even with the positive news about vaccines, there is no doubting that the figures we are seeing (whether you want to believe them or not) are going to worry children, parents and teachers alike.

Anyway, I only dragged myself into this discussion because @yorkie's post came across as though he had some information to back up what he was saying in the post I quoted previously and I'd love to see that as generally we only see opinions and assumptions which suit a persons argument when it comes to a lot of covid discussions instead of hard facts

On the news headline tonight is that the National Education Union are advising members that it is not safe to return to their workplace.

Now I am sure that many on this forum who are railway workers will be well acquainted with the right to stop work and go to a place of safety if there is a threat of serious and imminent danger. However I’m really struggling to see how this situation represents serious and imminent danger.

Mojo said:

On the news headline tonight is that the National Education Union are advising members that it is not safe to return to their workplace.

Now I am sure that many on this forum who are railway workers will be well acquainted with the right to stop work and go to a place of safety if there is a threat of serious and imminent danger. However I’m really struggling to see how this situation represents serious and imminent danger.

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Well, as the parent of a primary school teacher I can. Small children don't understand about social distancing and you can't teach them in PPE. When they fall over they need a cuddle. Having said that, I am sure my daughter will be off to school on Monday because she is dedicated to her job. What I do think is that primary teachers should be high on the priority list for vaccination because that's the only way to protect them.

The_Train said:

I don't usually get involved in Covid related discussion but I must admit that this caught my attention a little bit, mainly because I was quite surprised by it.

Are there actually some facts and figures to back these claims up...

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I work in education and speak with students and parents on a regular basis.

I concur with the comments of @sjpowermac and @johnnychips above. I can also vouch for their authenticity.

The_Train said:

because I have to be honest, that is not the feeling I am getting.

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from where? I wouldn't trust anything that doesn't come 'from the horses mouth' on this.

The_Train said:

On another (very different) forum I post on, I would say that 100% of parents and grandparents on there are demanding that schools remain closed

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I wonder what forum that is.

Parents who want children to be at school don't tend to go posting this intention on forums.

The_Train said:

and next week with the vast majority of non-parents backing them.

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People tend to back others who are part of their group; it's part of human nature.

The_Train said:

Now, I'm not claiming that this in anyway speaks for the population but it is quite weird that I go from that forum to this forum and find such differing claims

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On this forum we have a lot of people who are very knowledgeable about a range of matters and have a lot of life experience. Yes there will be occasions when someone who is not knowledgeable posts something incorrect as fact; but when they do, they tend to get corrected.

I've met hundreds of people from this forum and indeed several members have visited me at work; some as trainee teachers (who went on to qualify). Once restrictions are eased I look forward to inviting another forum member who I know is a trainee teacher to visit us.

I worked in the NHS which was a great experience. But working in a school is different to anything else. The sense of teamwork and togetherness is immense. Staff will often go the extra mile in a way that wouldn't happen in most places.

I have not gone round asking all of my colleagues for their views but of those I have spoken to, the vast majority do want schools tp remain open.

I am only aware of a handful of parents who had issues with their kids being in school, and none that I had any direct contact with.

The_Train said:

Equally, media outlets seem to be pointing towards the fact that teachers don't feel that schools should be reopening.

For the record, schools being open or closed does not impact me in any way so I don't really have an active involvement but I was just intrigued when I read these statements

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Don't believe anything media outlets claim about what teachers think! Yes some teachers will think like that, but it isn't representative.

The_Train said:

...all teachers will be required to undertake weekly tests with disciplinary action if they refuse.....

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I'll find out about this on Monday but I've not heard anything to this effect.

DerekC said:

Well, as the parent of a primary school teacher I can. Small children don't understand about social distancing and you can't teach them in PPE. When they fall over they need a cuddle. Having said that, I am sure my daughter will be off to school on Monday because she is dedicated to her job. What I do think is that primary teachers should be high on the priority list for vaccination because that's the only way to protect them.

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As I said to some other forum members on a recent walk last weekend (thank goodness for being in tier 3!), one of my predictions is that, at some point, school staff may get prioritised for the vaccine.

sjpowermac said:

Have many at your work had to isolate because of being notified by the app? A couple of people at my work have ‘hit the jackpot’ twice with that. I’ve been scanning everywhere and not so much as a murmur!

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Honest answer is I don't really know. The funny thing is that the ones who seem to be off the most are the ones who were shielding over the summer (we only have one shielding now, in the extremely vulnerable category, the others are in the less vulnerably category and are thus back - when they deign to turn up that is). It's quite apparent there's some mickey-taking going on, which I'm afraid contributes to me being highly cynical about the whole damn thing now. Evidently half a year off just wasn't enough for some.

Perhaps I'm missing out on this app thing! Not interested in it.

Ianno87 said:

I do suspect the "pro-return" parents are a bit of a silent majority.

Frankly, most parents have jobs to be going to/getting on with, which are a darn sight easier with kids at school (especially young ones).

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I agree, if schools were to close it would make our lives a lot harder. Fortunately my wife's work is linked to did production so we may be able to claim that our children are able to continue to go to school (we didn't bother last time as I was on furlough, but work is now very busy so that's not an option going forwards) and I suspect that there would be a LOT of parents who would be trying to be classed as such so that their children continue to go to school.

When preschools reopened on day two I had to run to keep up with my child in the way they were so happy to be back.

Likewise one other of mine having been in for 40 minutes to meet their new teacher (towards the end of the summer term) and seeing their class was (after being scared going in) was bouncing on being collected.

yorkie said:

I work in education and speak with students and parents on a regular basis.

I concur with the comments of @sjpowermac and @johnnychips above. I can also vouch for their authenticity.


from where? I wouldn't trust anything that doesn't come 'from the horses mouth' on this.

I wonder what forum that is.

Parents who want children to be at school don't tend to go posting this intention on forums.

People tend to back others who are part of their group; it's part of human nature.

On this forum we have a lot of people who are very knowledgeable about a range of matters and have a lot of life experience. Yes there will be occasions when someone who is not knowledgeable posts something incorrect as fact; but when they do, they tend to get corrected.

I've met hundreds of people from this forum and indeed several members have visited me at work; some as trainee teachers (who went on to qualify). Once restrictions are eased I look forward to inviting another forum member who I know is a trainee teacher to visit us.

I worked in the NHS which was a great experience. But working in a school is different to anything else. The sense of teamwork and togetherness is immense. Staff will often go the extra mile in a way that wouldn't happen in most places.

I have not gone round asking all of my colleagues for their views but of those I have spoken to, the vast majority do want schools tp remain open.

I am only aware of a handful of parents who had issues with their kids being in school, and none that I had any direct contact with.


Don't believe anything media outlets claim about what teachers think! Yes some teachers will think like that, but it isn't representative.


I'll find out about this on Monday but I've not heard anything to this effect.


As I said to some other forum members on a recent walk last weekend (thank goodness for being in tier 3!), one of my predictions is that, at some point, school staff may get prioritised for the vaccine.

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A good post, thanks.

I know a few teachers and I get the impression that there's a group high up within the unions who don't want schools to return but this isn't necessarily representative of the majority of members on the ground (although this may just be this area).

The guidance for my two that attend secondary school has now been released for remote work through Google Classroom.

1. Pupils should follow their usual timetable (week 2 then week 1)
2. Pupils should wear school uniform as normal at home
3. Pupils should study in a public area of their house and not in the bedroom
4. Pupils should not use a webcam, this will not be requested

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Obviously 1 is fine. 2 and 4 don't work together because as there is no webcam use how would they know what is worn?

And they can shove 3, their computers are in their bedrooms and it's where they have always studied, nobody from school is dictating the rules in our house.

Mandating the wearing of school uniform at home is weird.

Darandio said:

The guidance for my two that attend secondary school has now been released for remote work through Google Classroom.



Obviously 1 is fine. 2 and 4 don't work together because as there is no webcam use how would they know what is worn?

And they can shove 3, their computers are in their bedrooms and it's where they have always studied, nobody from school is dictating the rules in our house.

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Psychologically, getting ready for school and putting a uniform on can make instill some sense of normality and that they are in school mode rather than home and lesiure mode.

I'd imagine the study in a public area is again to instil "going to school" and so parents can more easily check they are doing schoolwork and not playing games etc but certainly a desktop computer set up is more problematic to shift around.

I wouldn't see it as schools "dictating rules", just schools and teachers trying to get the best learning environment for kids when it's not safe to attend a physical school building.

These rules don't seem designed for the real world. So if a parent is working from home in their living room, they have to put up with a class going on at the same time? And by secondary school pupils will surely be used to working in their own rooms anyway, for homework etc. Not everybody has more rooms available to work in beyond bedrooms and a kitchen/living area...

I can sort of see the rationale behind the uniform rule (I still dress the same for work when I work at home as it puts me "in the zone" so to speak), but it's absolutely pointless to put that rule in with rule 4, as you say. It should be down to discretion.

Again, like all these COVID regulations in general, there seems to be a lack of trust in adults to do what's best for themselves or their family.

theironroad said:

Psychologically, getting ready for school and putting a uniform on can make instill some sense of normality and that they are in school mode rather than home and lesiure mode.

I'd imagine the study in a public area is again to instil "going to school" and so parents can more easily check they are doing schoolwork and not playing games etc but certainly a desktop computer set up is more problematic to shift around.

I wouldn't see it as schools "dictating rules", just schools and teachers trying to get the best learning environment for kids when it's not safe to attend a physical school building.

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We had months of remote learning last year and not once were any of these rules put into place. Maybe there were issues with some students not doing work and so they feel they want to try and have some element of remote control.

No need for it here, they will be up in the morning for school and won't miss any work, just as they didn't in 2020. But it will be done in their bedroom and wearing whatever they wish.

Darandio said:

We had months of remote learning last year and not once were any of these rules put into place. Maybe there were issues with some students not doing work and so they feel they want to try and have some element of remote control.

No need for it here, they will be up in the morning for school and won't miss any work, just as they didn't in 2020. But it will be done in their bedroom and wearing whatever they wish.

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Does seem a bit odd to put a uniform rule in now if wasn't used before then.

As long as the work gets done that's the main thing I guess.

Good luck.

yorkie said:

On this forum we have a lot of people who are very knowledgeable about a range of matters and have a lot of life experience. Yes there will be occasions when someone who is not knowledgeable posts something incorrect as fact; but when they do, they tend to get corrected.

I've met hundreds of people from this forum and indeed several members have visited me at work; some as trainee teachers (who went on to qualify). Once restrictions are eased I look forward to inviting another forum member who I know is a trainee teacher to visit us.

I worked in the NHS which was a great experience. But working in a school is different to anything else. The sense of teamwork and togetherness is immense. Staff will often go the extra mile in a way that wouldn't happen in most places.

I have not gone round asking all of my colleagues for their views but of those I have spoken to, the vast majority do want schools tp remain open.

I am only aware of a handful of parents who had issues with their kids being in school, and none that I had any direct contact with.

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Thank you Yorkie. Thank you for your support for teachers both now in the current situation and in numerous posts in the past.

I retired 6 years ago after 36 years of teaching in a primary school. I can't speak for the situation in secondary education, in larger establishments, because I have no experience of this, but in smaller primary schools the sense of team work and togetherness is often unbelievable. Where I worked we were like a family and probably closer and more united than many families. It was certainly not just a 9 till 4 job with long holidays and no-one on the staff where I worked was anything like the type of teacher you see and hear at the teachers union conferences.

The workload did considerably increase during my years of teaching. During my last few years teaching, the number of hours we were all working each week became absolutely unreasonable. We all tried to do it for the good of the children and the school, but also to support each other, although so much of the workload was just unnecessary paperwork and box ticking to satisfy OFSTED. Fortunately, I think that most of the parents appreciated this. I was going into school every morning before 8am and not leaving until after 6pm. Breaktimes including lunch time just didn't happen as there often wasn't time to sit down and I just ate and drank as continued to work. I spent nearly every lunchtime changing reading books, tidying up after the morning session and preparing the classroom for the afternoon. If I also include the work I took home and every Sunday evening sorting out planning for the coming week I was regularly working over 60 hours a week and that is without parents evenings, concerts etc. That is my view of the workload these days of the majority of primary school teachers. I won't start on the number of hours that I worked during school holidays.

I have included all the above to give some indication of how many hours primary school teachers were already working before Covid. Most teachers did not have any easy time when schools were closed between March and September. Having to quickly provide online education was not easy. There was very little training given and many of the older teachers find computer technology a challenge even under normal circumstances. Some of the children do not find it easy too. What is the attention span of a 4 year old sitting at a computer during an online activity?

When the children returned in September the staff worked so hard to make things as normal as possible for the children under difficult circumstances. I know from those staff that I remain in contact with just how hard they worked. What did come over was despite the difficulties and worries school was still a very happy place to be for themselves and above all the children. I can't begin to describe how hard they worked to help the children have a truly memorable lead up to Christmas. Again all of this was appreciated by the parents and attendance statistics for last term for the school was high at well over 90%. After 6 months off school the first few weeks back in September were not easy, as the younger children especially returned very immature, getting upset and crying easily, constantly wanting attention etc. That is without considering all of the learning that has been missed. The Year 1 teachers were finding it very difficult because when their children returned they were behaving just like they were completely new to school. I understand that the teachers were absolutely exhausted when they finished for the Christmas holiday and now they are being criticized by some for not wanting to spend much of the holiday preparing online lessons for this term.

As far as I know most of the teachers at the school want the children to be back in school tomorrow morning. I also think most of the parents are still very supportive of this and will be happily sending their children in. Not an easy situation when the teaching unions are saying it is not safe. Since retiring I have kept in contact, and when not off on my travels, have been going into school voluntarily one morning a week to hear children read. Sadly, I have not been able to go in since March as the school is not allowing any visitors on the premises.

ChrisC said:

. What is the attention span of a 4 year old sitting at a computer during an online activity?

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^^^^^ This!

My 4 year old could probably manage 5-10 minutes a couple of times per day.

A substitute for 5 hours of daily classroom learning it is not.

The Twitter "move teaching online" brigade (which sounds nice in 280 characters or less) would do well to appreciate this...

Over the past few days, I really get the impression most people are concerned about schools going back tomorrow. I myself work in a primary school, and so do many of my friends. I will be going to work tomorrow, if there isn’t a u-turn, but would rather not. Talking to colleagues from my school, as well my friends who teach in different schools, they do not want to return (despite them being very dedicated workaholics). My colleagues at work seemed to be much happier returning in September 2020 and also much prefer to be in school rather than teaching online, but are now more concerned than previously.
The impression I get from my local residents group on Facebook is largely the same (yes, I know social media opinion should be taken with a prince of salt).

I should add that I live in Kent. Some districts of Kent have schools closed, and some will be open. This is where opinion might be a bit different in Kent compared to other areas - I don’t feel there is much point keeping some closed and some open in Kent . Teachers/pupils come from different areas of Kent, for example travelling from Swale (schools closed) into Canterbury (schools open). We share the same hospitals, supermarkets and so on.

Of course children are largely unaffected by Covid, but there are teaching staff who are vulnerable, who are older, and who live with vulnerable people (using my school as an example). It is impossible to completely social distance when working with primary age children. I think people are worried because schools are closing in some areas meaning it’s considered ‘unsafe’, but in a district next door, it’s apparently perfectly safe. People are also seeing very busy hospitals, and don’t want to end up in one.

Face to face education is unbeatable and is never completely replicated with online teaching, and children have missed out on so much. I would support a return in 2 weeks, to give a bit of time after the Christmas / New Years mixing

The leader of Kent County Council has asked the government if all schools in Kent should close, and the Canterbury MP has been raising concerns.

I felt like I needed to post on here, because the overwhelming impression I am getting from Kent is that most people are concerned about schools returning. I also feel that most teaching staff support returning soon - but right now it feels too soon.

Richard Scott said:

In all my 23 years working in education I've never seen anything go like wildfire through a school from stomach bugs to flu, it doesn't happen so willing to bet this won't either.

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Back in the 1990s my school was wiped out by flu but I should point out it was a boarding school. The vast majority of the pupils got it. Anyone whose parents lived nearby was sent home if they caught it, including me. I can't recall how many of the teachers got it but I do know that neither of my parents caught it despite me being home for a week.

bramling said:

Certainly social media I’ve seen seems to be noticeably more biased towards parents not wanting to return their children to school, citing that it’s too dangerous.

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Dangerous for whom? Not the kids, that's for sure. If parents are really that concerned, keep the kids at home even if the school is open and let those that want to go to school carry on.

Bikeman78 said:

Dangerous for whom? Not the kids, that's for sure. If parents are really that concerned, keep the kids at home even if the school is open and let those that want to go to school carry on.

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I do agree if parents are concerned they shouldn’t let them in. Of course it isn’t really a danger to kids, but it can be passed on to parents, which may be why some are worried.

It is seemingly more of a concern for teachers right now, many of whom don’t feel safe returning. After all, social distancing is impossible in a classroom of 30 children, and this time we can’t teach outside.

Ianno87 said:

^^^^^ This!

My 4 year old could probably manage 5-10 minutes a couple of times per day.

A substitute for 5 hours of daily classroom learning it is not.

The Twitter "move teaching online" brigade (which sounds nice in 280 characters or less) would do well to appreciate this...

Click to expand...

My son is four and he's full of energy. He would never sit still for more than a few minutes to do work and then distracted his older sister who did want to do the work assigned to her. However, his teachers say he is good as gold at school. Clearly he will learn a lot more at school than we could ever hope to teach him at home.

alex397 said:

I do agree if parents are concerned they shouldn’t let them in. Of course it isn’t really a danger to kids, but it can be passed on to parents, which may be why some are worried.

It is seemingly more of a concern for teachers right now, many of whom don’t feel safe returning. After all, social distancing is impossible in a classroom of 30 children, and this time we can’t teach outside.

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Of course teachers that are at risk, or live with someone who is at risk, should not be going in a classroom full of people but what percentage of teachers fall into those categories? The majority of people under 60 have little to fear from Covid. I'm certainly not worried about it.

alex397 said:

Over the past few days, I really get the impression most people are concerned about schools going back tomorrow. I myself work in a primary school, and so do many of my friends. I will be going to work tomorrow, if there isn’t a u-turn, but would rather not. Talking to colleagues from my school, as well my friends who teach in different schools, they do not want to return (despite them being very dedicated workaholics). My colleagues at work seemed to be much happier returning in September 2020 and also much prefer to be in school rather than teaching online, but are now more concerned than previously.
The impression I get from my local residents group on Facebook is largely the same (yes, I know social media opinion should be taken with a prince of salt).

I should add that I live in Kent. Some districts of Kent have schools closed, and some will be open. This is where opinion might be a bit different in Kent compared to other areas - I don’t feel there is much point keeping some closed and some open in Kent . Teachers/pupils come from different areas of Kent, for example travelling from Swale (schools closed) into Canterbury (schools open). We share the same hospitals, supermarkets and so on.

Of course children are largely unaffected by Covid, but there are teaching staff who are vulnerable, who are older, and who live with vulnerable people (using my school as an example). It is impossible to completely social distance when working with primary age children. I think people are worried because schools are closing in some areas meaning it’s considered ‘unsafe’, but in a district next door, it’s apparently perfectly safe. People are also seeing very busy hospitals, and don’t want to end up in one.

Face to face education is unbeatable and is never completely replicated with online teaching, and children have missed out on so much. I would support a return in 2 weeks, to give a bit of time after the Christmas / New Years mixing

The leader of Kent County Council has asked the government if all schools in Kent should close, and the Canterbury MP has been raising concerns.

I felt like I needed to post on here, because the overwhelming impression I am getting from Kent is that most people are concerned about schools returning. I also feel that most teaching staff support returning soon - but right now it feels too soon.

Click to expand...

Thanks - a good, balanced post.

alex397 said:

I do agree if parents are concerned they shouldn’t let them in. Of course it isn’t really a danger to kids, but it can be passed on to parents, which may be why some are worried.

It is seemingly more of a concern for teachers right now, many of whom don’t feel safe returning. After all, social distancing is impossible in a classroom of 30 children, and this time we can’t teach outside.

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It's mostly the vocal few who are concerned, believe me most aren't.