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"Clap For Carers" is back again

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BJames

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I'm not doing it. Nobody I've spoken to is planning to. Our next door neighbour is a nurse and she is not the slightest bit interested in getting clapped for. It was ok for the first couple of weeks back in lockdown but I'm not starting again.
 
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Mojo

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I’m wondering whether the return of the clapping is in part orchestrated by the Government or SPI-B (the pandemic behavioural science committee) to try and harness the ‘community cohesion’ feel of the first lockdown and drive up compliance through increased focus on the NHS.
Which is interesting, because the country's largest study on neighbourhood cohesion (carried out by the Universities of Manchester and Essex) actually found that relations became more fractured during the spring lockdown. There was quite an interesting piece looking into this study on Countryfile a few weeks ago; still on iPlayer if anyone is interested.


The Covid-19 pandemic has been portrayed as a time when communities have become closer and when neighbours helped each other, but new research suggests that in reality neighbourhoods have become more fractured during the lockdown.

Dr Magda Borkowska from the Institute for Social and Economic Research at the University of Essex, and Dr James Laurence at the University of Manchester, used the UK-wide longitudinal household panel study Understanding Society to look at how people felt about their neighbours and their local neighbourhood during June 2020 and compared this with what they reported in 2011/12 and 2014/15. Surprisingly, they found that across the whole population the percentage of people reporting positive feelings about their community was lowest during the pandemic period.
 

Huntergreed

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Last year I was out every week and quite proud of it.

This time they can sod right off, it's pointless resurrecting it now, clapping means absolutely nothing and it's just some political theatre to make people feel like they're doing the right thing. Load of nonsense.
 

sheff1

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"Last year the weekly applause united communities and had us talking to our neighbours"

We talk to neighbours virtually every day - no need for some pointless clapping (which we completely ignored).

Did people in other places stop talking to neighbours when the clapping ended ? If so, glad I don't l live there.
 

bramling

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I’m wondering whether the return of the clapping is in part orchestrated by the Government or SPI-B (the pandemic behavioural science committee) to try and harness the ‘community cohesion’ feel of the first lockdown and drive up compliance through increased focus on the NHS. It’s funny how it’s just re-emerged after Annemarie Plas was so keen to end it last time.

I wouldn’t be surprised. They know some people go all misty-eyed whenever the NHS is mentioned.

I’m not so sure it’s a cohesion thing though, on the contrary it seems to end up being almost a shame thing. “Look at us all on our doorsteps clapping, how dare you not comply.” Meanwhile many of the hypocrites will be piling into places like Durdle Door the next day.

Which is interesting, because the country's largest study on neighbourhood cohesion (carried out by the Universities of Manchester and Essex) actually found that relations became more fractured during the spring lockdown. There was quite an interesting piece looking into this study on Countryfile a few weeks ago; still on iPlayer if anyone is interested.


I can’t say things are any different for me. Get on really well with one side, haven’t spoken to the other side (except absolute formalities) for 20 years after a couple of issues.

I suppose it depends on whether one has been involved in a snitching incident, that would certainly be bad for relations. Likewise with people being in at times they wouldn’t normally be, I’ll bet a few have noticed noises and other things they wouldn’t otherwise have done. Another reason why working from home isn’t such a good thing as some crack it up to be.
 

Bikeman78

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Good to see that applause is being accepted as currency once more. :rolleyes:

I didn't join in last time and I won't be doing this time. Virtue signalling of the highest order.
You have just reminded me about Kevin Bridges and his piece about "self esteem Friday!"
 

DustyBin

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Psychological nonsense. Behavioural science in action.

I said (half seriously) the first time around that it was a seemingly harmless way of testing control. I do worry I get a little tinfoil hatty at times but in the current situation you just don’t know, plus with Ferguson’s recent comments it’s maybe not such a crazy theory....
 

hst43102

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The quoted poster does have a point though, albeit more directed towards the leadership and governance of the health service rather than the front-line staff.

ISTR there was an exchange a little while back between Jeremy Hunt and a rather bad-tempered Chris Whitty regarding NHS capacity. It's absolutely not unreasonable to ask the question whether the hundreds of billions spent on lockdown, not to mention the consequential negative costs imposed on livelihoods and wellbeing, could have been better invested in boosting NHS capacity. It's possible that the answer to that question is that is wasn't viable, in which case let's see the evidence, but it's certainly not unreasonable to ask the question.
Firstly, my apologies to @dan5324 for my response - I did agree with the core of your post, but just not the way you said it. Sorry if my reply sounded angry! I absolutely think that there should be an inquiry into the NHS's dealing with this crisis - in no way is it unreasonable to question their actions.

I said (half seriously) the first time around that it was a seemingly harmless way of testing control. I do worry I get a little tinfoil hatty at times but in the current situation you just don’t know, plus with Ferguson’s recent comments it’s maybe not such a crazy theory....
I am inclined to agree with you here! Ferguson's comments were very depressing and I fear that government control is tightening by the day.
 
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I wasn't keen on the whole idea and never particpated, although I know a couple of folk in the NHS who did say it did give them a wee lift in some pretty dark days.

For me personally it did cause some amusement. Since the first lockdown I've been doing a delivery run very Thursday for a local specialist off-licence and the run was usually finishing around that time
People would be cheering and waving to this plucky, dedicated key worker still out there working into the evening when I was really just delivering fancy wine to nice middle class folk!
 

Gloster

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The last bout of clapping soon seemed to develop into either showing off to the neighbours or trying to get your video on the TV. “You only had your daughter playing ‘Somewhere over the Rainbow’ on a recorder. OUR family made up a four-piece jazz band.” Or, “If we all dress up as characters from Frozen, stand on our heads and play vuvuzelas, we’re sure to get on the local news.”

I am sure that a pay rise, which might help to reduce the staff shortages in the NHS, would be preferred.
 

UP13

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Instead of clapping (or what I saw was standing in the most visible part of your street and banging a pot much louder than your neighbours with real anger in your face because you have to be seen as loving the NHS more than your neighbour) why don't we have a chip in a quid for the NHS?

Everybody anonymously donates £1 online every Thursday at 8pm and then doesn't post about it on social media or talks about it in person. Tens of millions could potentially be raised each week

Actually it will never catch on. It involves actually helping and nobody will see you doing it.

Clapping is the new thoughts and prayers. Being seen as helping without actually doing anything.

I know lots of NHS workers who got pissed off the first time because they'd be treating people who caught the virus from doing congas on VE Day and packing into beaches etc and then when the shift finishes, all the food and toilet paper has been sold out from the shop and then the same people patronisingly clapping them every Thursday...
 

Jamesrob637

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She did and wanted some sort of annual clap. Then she instigated it again today, she must have missed being on the news about it.

If we believe Wikipedia, the annual clap will take place on the last Thursday of March. I am perfectly happy to do this in years to come if I am not away that day. But no more.
 

Skimpot flyer

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I’m wondering whether the return of the clapping is in part orchestrated by the Government or SPI-B (the pandemic behavioural science committee) to try and harness the ‘community cohesion’ feel of the first lockdown and drive up compliance through increased focus on the NHS. It’s funny how it’s just re-emerged after Annemarie Plas was so keen to end it last time.
If it is, then I rather think this is going to backfire spectacularly, if comments on here and on Twitter are anything to go by.
Now THAT is worthy of applause!
 
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DustyBin

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The quoted poster does have a point though, albeit more directed towards the leadership and governance of the health service rather than the front-line staff.

At best there's some presentational issues, as there hasn't been much evidence of capacity having been built up or preparations made. If a government body wishes us to put our lives on hold on their account then they need to elocute a pretty solid case, and (IMV) they haven't really done that. Perhaps more so than last time round, as in March we never really knew what was the actual purpose of the lockdown, whereas this time it seems pretty clearly centred upon NHS capacity.

ISTR there was an exchange a little while back between Jeremy Hunt and a rather bad-tempered Chris Whitty regarding NHS capacity. It's absolutely not unreasonable to ask the question whether the hundreds of billions spent on lockdown, not to mention the consequential negative costs imposed on livelihoods and wellbeing, could have been better invested in boosting NHS capacity. It's possible that the answer to that question is that is wasn't viable, in which case let's see the evidence, but it's certainly not unreasonable to ask the question.

I came across this article this morning, what’s interesting are the comments below. I think it’s reasonable to presume that the comments are from front line NHS staff, who make their feelings very clear....


London’s hospitals are less than two weeks from being overwhelmed by covid even under the ‘best’ case scenario, according to an official briefing given to the capital’s most senior doctors this afternoon.
NHS England London medical director Vin Diwakar set out the stark analysis to the medical directors of London’s hospital trusts on a Zoom call.
The NHS England presentation, seen by HSJ (see slides below story), showed that even if the number of covid patients grew at the lowest rate considered likely, and measures to manage demand and increase capacity, including open the capital’s Nightingale hospital, were successful, the NHS in London would be short of nearly 2,000 general and acute and intensive care beds by 19 January.


Just to give you an idea, here are some of the comments:


1FB7BB83-05BF-43DC-BA1E-C09D81DF64E3.pngFC0432A9-4B1F-46BA-BE42-9C7B7AE0226C.png
 

kristiang85

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Even my other half, who enthusiastically did it every week last time, sighed heavily when I mentioned it to her last night.

This has gone down like a lead balloon.
 

Domh245

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That middle one is a shock, but perhaps not surprising. The sooner healthcare staff can get vaccinated (and the sooner they can start to be exempted from overzealous T&T) the better
 

Yew

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My friend, who is an NHS doctor, was wondering if claps count towards his mortgage limit?
 

Class 33

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The tweet by the founder is going down like a lead balloon in the replies fortunately (yes it's twitter but I doubt the mood on Twitter was quite like that last time):


I had a look through that Twitter feed. And whilst not read all of the thousands of replies, I probably read a few hundred. Couldn't see a single reply in favour of this "Clap For Carers" brought back again! Obviously this isn't as warmly received as she would have liked! Not surprisingly as many people will feel like me, that along with the other current factors, bringing this back again is another piece in the jigsaw that we've practically resetted back to where we were again back in late March/April last year. This is just NOT needed! After all this backlash, I wonder if she'll decide to cancel it? Though doesn't look like it so far unfortunately.
 

Mojo

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I had a look through that Twitter feed. And whilst not read all of the thousands of replies, I probably read a few hundred. Couldn't see a single reply in favour of this "Clap For Carers" brought back again! Obviously this isn't as warmly received as she would have liked! Not surprisingly as many people will feel like me, that along with the other current factors, bringing this back again is another piece in the jigsaw that we've practically resetted back to where we were again back in late March/April last year. This is just NOT needed! After all this backlash, I wonder if she'll decide to cancel it? Though doesn't look like it so far unfortunately.
It looks like the tweet has now been deleted.
 

DannyMich2018

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Last year my street was very good and was quite nice and uplifting to see some neighbours who I rarely see all together on a Thursday at 2000hrs. It did lift spirits. Numbers did reduce after a few weeks though. However I cannot see many out tonight at 2000hrs in the freezing temperatures!! Oh boy, what a frost last night so cold today....
 

Sprinter153

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Annemarie Plas has given a statement to The Guardian decrying the fact that there was a negative reaction to the event being restarted.

The Grauniad said:
Since relaunching the campaign on Wednesday under the new title, Clap For Heroes, Annemarie Plas, a Dutch woman living in London, said she had been “targeted with personal abuse and threats against myself and my family by a hateful few on social media channels”. She urged people to make their own decision on whether to clap on Thursday.

In a statement, Plas said: “Irrespective of their views and reasons for believing this is an acceptable way to behave, I did not set out to make a political statement and will not put my loved ones at risk.

“I have no political agenda, I am not employed by the government, I do not work in PR, I am just an average mum at home trying to cope with the lockdown situation. As a consequence I have opted to distance myself from tonight’s planned applause and will no longer seek to raise further awareness of it.”

I didn’t see anyone giving “personal abuse”, merely opposing the clapping for the same reason as most of the above posters - it’s crass tokenism that achieves nothing. “Personal abuse” “Disagreeing with me on social media”.
 

Darandio

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Annemarie Plas has given a statement to The Guardian decrying the fact that there was a negative reaction to the event being restarted.



I didn’t see anyone giving “personal abuse”, merely opposing the clapping for the same reason as most of the above posters - it’s crass tokenism that achieves nothing. “Personal abuse” “Disagreeing with me on social media”.

I must confess that I went through hundreds of replies to her on Twitter yesterday and did not see one personal attack, only a near unanimous disagreement with her reviving the idea.
 

kristiang85

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Given how loud the voices are about 'protecting the NHS', it does seem a bit weird that pretty much all the replies on there were against the idea of restarting clapping for the NHS.

A much larger proportion of people are utterly fed up than is being let on. Now I know some people were against the action because they'd rather see them get pay rises than mere claps, but still it did seem to show a lot of angst.
 

takno

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Annemarie Plas has given a statement to The Guardian decrying the fact that there was a negative reaction to the event being restarted.



I didn’t see anyone giving “personal abuse”, merely opposing the clapping for the same reason as most of the above posters - it’s crass tokenism that achieves nothing. “Personal abuse” “Disagreeing with me on social media”.
I don't agree with any form of personal abuse, and generally find the best approach on Twitter is to not engage at all. Sometimes people take things which are not personal abuse at all as personal abuse, but equally sometimes the abuse was there but you didn't see it because it was reported and removed before you got there.

She's a normal person who tried to do a nice thing, and discovered through a massive volume of responses that she'd judged it very badly indeed. Even if the responses were polite, or funny, or even sympathetic, it's unlikely to be a good feeling having tens of thousands of people tell you you messed up.
 

kristiang85

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I don't agree with any form of personal abuse, and generally find the best approach on Twitter is to not engage at all. Sometimes people take things which are not personal abuse at all as personal abuse, but equally sometimes the abuse was there but you didn't see it because it was reported and removed before you got there.

She's a normal person who tried to do a nice thing, and discovered through a massive volume of responses that she'd judged it very badly indeed. Even if the responses were polite, or funny, or even sympathetic, it's unlikely to be a good feeling having tens of thousands of people tell you you messed up.

This is the problem with social media; I sometimes get involved in debates on there, always politely adding in info. But half the messages I get are instantly sweary and/or abusive with no willingness to engage.

Social media brings about the absolute worst in people, and I have no idea why they behave like it. My personal rule is 'post on social media to a person what you would say to their face'.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Interesting that the BBC1 lunchtime news was announcing tonight's proposed clap-a-long as if it were a fait accompli.
 
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