• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Brexit matters

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
1,546
Location
UK
Thats the whole point. Project Fear Fail
If it was the whole point, surely it would be good to mention that in your post.

As in my post above, it’s clear some warnings were over the top. But it is also clear that a lot of the so-called ‘Project Fear’ is coming true, and has already come true. But many are just sweeping that under the carpet, and just focusing on the ‘scaremongering’ which has ended up incorrect or not as bad.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Revilo

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2018
Messages
279
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!

In reality the positives and negatives will need to be judged over a much longer timeframe, after the initial disruption from the change. In 10 years time people look back will wonder why we were ever in the EU, just as now it’s unthinkable we’d join the Euro, which the ‘experts’ advocated as essential at the time.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,693
Location
Scotland
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!
Again, you'll be perfectly fine for a day after eating deathcap mushroom soup.
 

Revilo

Member
Joined
13 Jan 2018
Messages
279
Again, you'll be perfectly fine for a day after eating deathcap mushroom soup.
It’s been over four years since George Osborne warned he would have to fill a £30bn black hole in public finances triggered by a vote to leave the European Union, necessitating a hiking income tax, alcohol and petrol duties and making massive cuts to the NHS, schools and defence.
 

bspahh

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2017
Messages
1,727
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!

One of the stars in my area of science is a German, who had been in Cambridge since he had done his PhD ~ 15 years ago. He still has an academic post in Cambridge, leading a research lab with a load of PhD students. He also has part time jobs at spin out companies, and was an associate director at AstraZeneca in his spare time. He personally attracted a lot of investment to the UK. People like him, were the reason that AstraZeneca moved their headquarters to Cambridge. He has a UK passport. He could have stayed. Because of Brexit, and the insular attitudes it represents, he has moved to Berlin. The UK will be poorer because of it.

We now have (some) tariff free trade with the EU, and the freedom to move away from EU regulations. If you run a company that can use the tariff-free trade, you can invest in new equipment. The problem comes if the government uses its freedom to move away from the EU regulations, and the EU then introduces tariffs. Would you take that risk, or just place your investment in new equipment with a company that is in the EU?
 

dosxuk

Established Member
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
1,742
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!

In reality the positives and negatives will need to be judged over a much longer timeframe, after the initial disruption from the change. In 10 years time people look back will wonder why we were ever in the EU, just as now it’s unthinkable we’d join the Euro, which the ‘experts’ advocated as essential at the time.

In 10 years time we may well be back in the EU, complete with Euro and Schengen, wondering why on earth we wasted so much money and goodwill on making our lives more difficult.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,180
And would that be because of a more limited choice in the price range you intend to pay?

I seem to recall upsets about products no longer available, or more expensive, when the UK went into the Common Market (as it was then). We all had to adjust then, as we will now.
 

birchesgreen

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2020
Messages
5,045
Location
Birmingham
One thing to consider with Brexit and the costs of leaving is that we happen to be in a covid pandemic (you may have heard of it), the costs of that are dwarfing everything at the moment and distorting a lot of normal business.
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!

In reality the positives and negatives will need to be judged over a much longer timeframe, after the initial disruption from the change. In 10 years time people look back will wonder why we were ever in the EU, just as now it’s unthinkable we’d join the Euro, which the ‘experts’ advocated as essential at the time.
Apart from major disruption to supermarket supply chains both EU-GB and GB-NI and Scottish Fisherman having to stop exporting to France because the Fish is just rotting while its held up at customs, factories having to close Temporary or even Permanent because there JIT system is stuffed.

Yes I'm sure a lot of this stuff will get sorted eventually but at what cost to business and the consumer.

The estimated loss of the current deal is around 4% compared to staying in the EU and the leavers should be held to the sword with regard to all these fantastic trade deals that are going to happen and don't exist as yet which will have to make up that 4% before we see any gains, not only that but they need to be judged against any trade deals the EU may make going forward, and if there isn't significant gains in this respect then in a few years time people really need to start and question the benefits.

It makes laugh at the moment leavers trying to claim fantastic trade deals by Liz Truss when they are either straight Roll Over Deals on the same terms as the EU or they are similar with a few minor tweaks, worth very little over the previous EU deals. We have yet to see any significant trade deal with a country that doesn't have an EU Trade Deal.

A lot of the Hard Leavers were really reliant on a Trade Deal with the USA but that's now on the same rocks as Donald Trump's presidency, and frankly anybody who relied on future at the mercy of Donald Trump you have to question their fitness for office.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
It makes laugh at the moment leavers trying to claim fantastic trade deals by Liz Truss when they are either straight Roll Over Deals on the same terms of the EU or they similar with a few minor tweaks worth very little over the previous EU deals.

I'm still waiting for the promised new pork markets with the Chinese - frankly it is a dis grace
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
Wherever they are, they won't have to comply with EU specifications.
So we're prepared to make unicorns and rainbows for our own use, that we can't export to anyone else?
I'm still waiting for the promised new pork markets with the Chinese - frankly it is a dis grace
We could get over the delays at Dover by selling them the flying pigs.
 

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,752
Location
York
So we're prepared to make unicorns and rainbows for our own use, that we can't export to anyone else?
Ah, but they'll be of such a high quality — far better than the unicorns or rainbows we might buy from anyone else. Doesn't really matter if no-one else wants to buy them, does it?
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,180
So we're prepared to make unicorns and rainbows for our own use, that we can't export to anyone else?
Judging by the demand in this thread, there won't be capacity for export for some time yet.
 

21C101

Established Member
Joined
19 Jul 2014
Messages
2,544
So we're prepared to make unicorns and rainbows for our own use, that we can't export to anyone else?
Yep, can't export to anyone else, except the 6.5 Billion people and growing in the 100 odd nations that are not in the EU.
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
1,546
Location
UK
Hardly a lot of Project Fear coming true. No planes flying? Exodus of business to the continent? So far it’s been someone’s sandwich confiscated and a shortage of Percy Pigs in France!

In reality the positives and negatives will need to be judged over a much longer timeframe, after the initial disruption from the change. In 10 years time people look back will wonder why we were ever in the EU, just as now it’s unthinkable we’d join the Euro, which the ‘experts’ advocated as essential at the time.
I’m not sure you read my post. It’s clear a lot of the ‘Project Fear’ hasn’t come true, but this may be partly because we didn’t leave with No Deal. As I have said, some of the predictions were a bit crazy, but these were often elevated by the hysterical media. You are focussing on these over-the-top predictions, rather than the predications that have come true.

It couldn’t really be clearer that some of the warnings, dismissed regularly by Leave campaigners, have come true, such as the extra bureaucracy.

Here is a local article from Kent Online today, about delays at the lorry park in Ashford. Reportedly, lorry drivers have been waiting up to 8 hours just to get paperwork signed, although maybe they’re just ‘scaremongering’
Truckers have been left queuing for hours at a new Brexit lorry park as they wait for border paperwork to be cleared.

Transport chiefs say a photo showing a long line of hauliers at the Waterbrook Park facility in Ashford proves the government "isn't fully prepared" for disruption in Kent.

Truckers queuing at the Waterbrook customs site yesterday. Picture: @RHARodMcKenzie
Truckers queuing at the Waterbrook customs site yesterday. Picture: @RHARodMcKenzie
The site - which is set to be used until the end of February - opened on January 1 and has been getting busier in recent days at the end of the Christmas lull.

HMRC is currently carrying out customs checks on the plot while construction continues on a neighbouring 66-acre facility.

On Twitter, Rod McKenzie, director of policy and public affairs at the Road Haulage Association (RHA), said drivers had been queuing for up to eight hours yesterday to get their border paperwork signed off, describing the situation as "shocking".


Spokesman Paul Mummery agreed, saying the photo shows the "the horrible truth" of delays facing hauliers.

"What we are seeing in Ashford is horrendous," he said.

The Waterbrook Park facility opened on January 1. Picture: Esprit Drone Services
The Waterbrook Park facility opened on January 1. Picture: Esprit Drone Services
"The Covid testing hasn't helped as it has added more time to the hauliers' journey, but this isn't just about Covid - this is about the government not getting its act together.


"We import more than we export and we are already hearing that firms on the continent are looking at the queues in Kent and saying that it is just not worth their while coming to the UK.

"They can't afford to have trucks getting stuck for days."

Mr Mummery says the RHA is urging the government to take action.


"We were never going to see the full extent of the government's lack of preparedness at the start of the year," he said.

Waterbrook is being used while contractors finish the nearby Sevington lorry park. Picture: Barry Goodwin
Waterbrook is being used while contractors finish the nearby Sevington lorry park. Picture: Barry Goodwin
"It was always going to be in the second or third week of January when more trucks are rolling, as we are seeing now.

"Prior to the end of the transition period, there were no delays apart from the start of Covid testing just before Christmas.

"But this photo shows the government isn't fully prepared."

Although the Sevington Inland Border Facility next to the Waterbrook site is not yet fully operational, truckers have been receiving Covid-19 tests on the land since last Monday.

But the opening of the facility sparked chaos in the neighbouring village of Mersham last week after the government gave truckers the wrong postcode.

Just two of the lorries in Mersham last week after truckers were given the wrong postcode. Picture: Stewart RossTruckers are receiving Covid-19 tests on part of the Sevington facility. Picture: Esprit Drone ServicesWhere Sevington's Brexit lorry park is being built; the neighbouring Waterbrook Park site is currently being used for HMRC checks
HMRC has been contacted for comment.
The picture of drivers queuing in the rain to get inside a Portacabin is a great highlight of the article
 
Last edited:

21C101

Established Member
Joined
19 Jul 2014
Messages
2,544
Nobody is saying that we won't be able to adjust, we're just questioning where the rainbows and unicorns are.
As I'm sure those on the receiving end were in 1973, but that was ok as it was an acceptable price to pay to ascend to the sunlit uplands of EU membership.
 

21C101

Established Member
Joined
19 Jul 2014
Messages
2,544
Assuming that those countries have lower standards than the EU.
Mostly they run with international standards (which many of the European Norm standards cited as acceptable by the EU do too).

There are though plenty of areas such as in Electromagnetic Compatability (the electromagnetic immunity side - emissions requirements are virtually univeral) that are expensive to comply with where EU requirements are more onerous than RoW.

Often it isn't the actual level of "quality" that is at issue, but the costly process of compliance that the EU requires that causes the issue, particularly for small businesses.

This is at least in part because the directives were drawn up with huge input from large corporations who used them as a method to put small rivals who could not afford the regulatory process out of business. This has caused a lot of problems in things like heritage plant seeds (particularly vegetable seeds), which is having an appalling effect on seed genetic diversity with many varieties lost forever.
 

37424

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,064
Location
Leeds
Yep, can't export to anyone else, except the 6.5 Billion people and growing in the 100 odd nations that are not in the EU.
Except of course being on our doorstep it makes sense to export/import to the EU particularly perishable products.

Quite a lot multinationals setup here as an EU base particularly true of the car industry, they are here to serve the UK and EU market they have other plants to serve other parts of the world.
 
Last edited:

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
Mostly they run with international standards (which many of the European Norm standards cited as acceptable by the EU do too).

There are though plenty of areas such as in Electromagnetic Compatability (the electromagnetic immunity side - emissions requirements are virtually univeral) that are expensive to comply with where EU requirements are more onerous than RoW.

Often it isn't the actual level of "quality" that is at issue, but the costly process of compliance that the EU requires that causes the issue, particularly for small businesses.

This is at least in part because the directives were drawn up with huge input from large corporations who used them as a method to put small rivals who could not afford the regulatory process out of business. This has caused a lot of problems in things like heritage plant seeds (particularly vegetable seeds), which is having an appalling effect on seed genetic diversity with many varieties lost forever.
Whether it's EU or international standards, we have to make things to those standards to be able to export them. So we have the choice of building something to our own standards that nobody else will buy and probably costs more due to small production runs, or "sacrificing our sovereignty" by complying to international standards. Which in the case of EU ones we no longer have any influence over.
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
8,677
Nice response from reece mog to rotting fish in docks.

The fish are now British and happier for it apparently! At least that will console those fresh seafood exporters.

Video link

Clearly it is just a joke to him? Didn't actually address the concerns.
 

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
508
Yep, can't export to anyone else, except the 6.5 Billion people and growing in the 100 odd nations that are not in the EU.

And what exactly was stopping us exporting to 6.5 billion people, while we were in the EU?

Perhaps we just had not much to sell , as other EU countries export far more that UK?
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,693
Location
Scotland
And what exactly was stopping us exporting to 6.5 billion people, while we were in the EU?
Ah, well, see... They'll be lining up at the door to sign new, better trade deals with us before we've even left the transition period.
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
Nice response from reece mog to rotting fish in docks.

The fish are now British and happier for it apparently! At least that will console those fresh seafood exporters.
Coincides nicely with this little revelation:

Downing Street has said Boris Johnson maintains confidence in the fisheries minister after she admitted not reading the post-Brexit trade deal with Brussels when it was agreed because she was busy organising a nativity trail.

Victoria Prentis faced calls for her to quit after the comments, but the prime minister is standing by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) minister.
 

Top