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Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates

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lttgroup

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A few things to note here...

483002 and 483009 are headed to a scrapyard in South Yorkshire but will initially be stored at the hauliers' yard for a while. I'm sure you can probably guess the scrapyard, but I shan't name it.

483004 is destined to be used as a cafe on the Island at a site which is currently using a double decker bus in that capacity.

483006 + 483008 are coming to us at the London Transport Traction Group. In the short term they won't be heading to the Epping Ongar Railway, but to a TfL site in North London (hopefully). It's hoped that they'll move to the EOR at some future date, once most of the work on them has been done.

483007 is headed to the IoWSR, where I gather it will be opened to the public at their June gala.

Regarding ride heights, the units were indeed raised at Eastleigh. Amongst the drawings we've got from SWR I distinctly recall some for packing pieces on the bogies.
 

Gloster

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At 15.30 today the set (004?) that had been in the siding north of the bridge was no longer there. It was probably one of the three sets to be seen (from a passing bus) in the yard outside the shed.
 

D365

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483002 and 483009 are headed to a scrapyard in South Yorkshire but will initially be stored at the hauliers' yard for a while. I'm sure you can probably guess the scrapyard, but I shan't name it.
EMR Attercliffe? ;)

Regarding ride heights, the units were indeed raised at Eastleigh. Amongst the drawings we've got from SWR I distinctly recall some for packing pieces on the bogies.
It's intriguing to note that Vivarail are doing the exact opposite with the 484s - specifically not adding packing pieces, which they've been doing with the Class 230s.
 

swt_passenger

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It's intriguing to note that Vivarail are doing the exact opposite with the 484s - specifically not adding packing pieces, which they've been doing with the Class 230s.
I don’t think “intriguing” is the right description. IIRC it’s only needed to fit the diesel power pack on the 230s, so why would they need to on a DC only version?
 

Joshua483

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I don't know the date of this picture but it is obviously not a 483 train. It actually links to a March 2018 article which states that the D stock trains would not fit through the tunnel. Whether or not that statement is true I cannot say and I am just posting this for information.

View attachment 92190
That is a British Rail Class 485 or 486 with a wooden cut out of a British Rail Class 503's roof line to test if it would fit.
 

swt_passenger

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That is a British Rail Class 485 or 486 with a wooden cut out of a British Rail Class 503's roof line to test if it would fit.
Was also posted on page #3 of this thread, in Sep 2019. Most of us know about it already, it’s of historic interest but hardly relevant today.
 

Joshua483

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Was also posted on page #3 of this thread, in Sep 2019. Most of us know about it already, it’s of historic interest but hardly relevant today.
That if the British Rail class 503 had come to the island of Wight they would have rebuilt Ryde tunnel as a single bore with a a single track in the middle of the tunnel.
 

swt_passenger

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That if the British Rail class 503 had come to the island of Wight they would have rebuilt Ryde tunnel as a single bore with a a single track in the middle of the tunnel.
But who cares? Ancient history now, it didn't happen then, and won’t happen in future. Maybe we could stick to what’s actually being done in 2021...
 

Chris125

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That if the British Rail class 503 had come to the island of Wight they would have rebuilt Ryde tunnel as a single bore with a a single track in the middle of the tunnel.

There was no plan to rebuild the tunnel, it's always been single bore apart from short sections at each end which understandably cause confusion.
 

Joshua483

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There was no plan to rebuild the tunnel, it's always been single bore apart from short sections at each end which understandably cause confusion.
I mean that they would make the whole tunnel single bore including the short sections of twin bore.
 

Chris125

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I mean that they would make the whole tunnel single bore including the short sections of twin bore.

Yes, but for the 503s they were proposing to excavate or use concrete slab track through the single bores at either end - I can't imagine rebuilding the tunnel itself was a realistic option, then or now.
 

Joshua483

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Yes, but for the 503s they were proposing to excavate or use concrete slab track through the single bores at either end - I can't imagine rebuilding the tunnel itself was a realistic option, then or now.
That is what was said would remove the middle wall in the twin bore like at the exits of the tunnel. Then they would put the line in the center of the tunnel where the wall was.
1617730749534.png
not my image but the red circle and red arrow with text this bit I have done. The image is from Wikipedia.
 

MotCO

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That is what was said would remove the middle wall in the twin bore like at the exits of the tunnel. Then they would put the line in the center of the tunnel where the wall was.
View attachment 93910
not my image but the red circle and red arrow with text this bit I have done. The image is from Wikipedia.
But isn't that a structural support? The tunnel would collapse!
 

KendalKing

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There was no plan to rebuild the tunnel, it's always been single bore apart from short sections at each end which understandably cause confusion.
Somebody, up thread posted a video showing the inside of tunnel. Can't remember who it was now.
 

Chris125

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That is what was said would remove the middle wall in the twin bore like at the exits of the tunnel. Then they would put the line in the center of the tunnel where the wall was.

May I ask where this was said? I've seen the occasional enthusiast suggest it, but the 503 proposal in the mid 80s makes no such mention:

"The cheapest option, made possible by recent reductions in train service levels, would be to single the line between Ryde St Johns Road and Ryde Esplanade. The remaining line through the tunnel could be lowered in the single track bores, either by excavation or the use of slab paved track, and slewed to the centre of the present double line section"

No Because it is only there to make space for the refuges and what ever support it dose do would be take in to account.

The single track bores at each end (and the covered way under the esplanade roundabout) were presumably designed to support road traffic above.
 

Joshua483

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May I ask where this was said? I've seen the occasional enthusiast suggest it, but the 503 proposal in the mid 80s makes no such mention:

"The cheapest option, made possible by recent reductions in train service levels, would be to single the line between Ryde St Johns Road and Ryde Esplanade. The remaining line through the tunnel could be lowered in the single track bores, either by excavation or the use of slab paved track, and slewed to the centre of the present double line section"



The single track bores at each end (and the covered way under the esplanade roundabout) were presumably designed to support road traffic above.
This is were I learned that they mite sent over the British Rail Class 503 and about the time where a British Rail Class 03 got suck under a bridge on the isle of Wight and then they cut the roof of the cab off by enough tp make it so it did not not get suck again .
 

Chris125

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This is were I learned that they mite sent over the British Rail Class 503 and about the time where a British Rail Class 03 got suck under a bridge on the isle of Wight and then they cut the roof of the cab off by enough tp make it so it did not not get suck again .

I can't recall Richard making any mention of altering the tunnel in that way - if nothing else his book references the same 503 proposal referred to above, which I think is the only known written documentation?
 

Joshua483

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I can't recall Richard making any mention of altering the tunnel in that way - if nothing else his book references the same 503 proposal referred to above, which I think is the only known written documentation?
At 23:40 he said about Ryde tunnel rebuilding, with 22:00 to 36:00 about Ryde tunnel.
 

swt_passenger

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How did you find the link to the cab interior? On the public-facing Vivarail site I can only find a link to a passenger interior virtual tour.
Google sort of found it for me. I first searched on “class 484 cab interior”.
then I followed the first Vivarail link under the images and got to this page: https://vivarail.co.uk/as2020/
Although that page is headed up “230 media links”, there’s 484 stuff further down.
 

Chris125

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At 23:40 he said about Ryde tunnel rebuilding, with 22:00 to 36:00 about Ryde tunnel.

Yep, but unless I missed a bit he only refers to lowering the track - not replacing the roof. Basically he repeats the bit I posted above from the proposal, which incidentally features in his (excellent!) book.
 

DelW

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But isn't that a structural support? The tunnel would collapse!

No Because it is only there to make space for the refuges and what ever support it dose do would be take in to account.
Removing that spine wall would have needed the redesign and rebuilding of the tunnel roof over that section, including temporary removal of whatever was above it. There's no possibility of retaining the twin arches while removing the central wall.
 
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