EMR Class 360's

D7666 · 27 Mar 2021

On the subject of 360 going for maintenance, is Cauldwell ready yet ?

I think not - at least I have not seen reports to that effect, nor reports of 360s going there, they seem to be at Kettering or Cricklewood, or MML training to Kentish Town.

Cauldwell will be doing the light-er exams, Northampton the heavy-er exams, although where the demarcation is I do not know.

I suggest that what might be going on right now is that 360s have to go to Northampton for all exams, even the lightest, until Cauldwell is ready, while the future steady state with Cauldwell functioning will limit moves to Northampton for heavy-er exams only that are obviously at much greater intervals.

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OTRail · 27 Mar 2021

I wonder if one or two 360s are going to be temporary vinyled for launch day, or is relivery of any kind on hold until after service introduction?

43096 · 27 Mar 2021

D7666 said:
On the subject of 360 going for maintenance, is Cauldwell ready yet ?

I think not - at least I have not seen reports to that effect, nor reports of 360s going there, they seem to be at Kettering or Cricklewood, or MML training to Kentish Town.

Cauldwell will be doing the light-er exams, Northampton the heavy-er exams, although where the demarcation is I do not know.

I suggest that what might be going on right now is that 360s have to go to Northampton for all exams, even the lightest, until Cauldwell is ready, while the future steady state with Cauldwell functioning will limit moves to Northampton for heavy-er exams only that are obviously at much greater intervals.

They all show as home depot 'BF' (Bedford Cauldwell) on the system now, such as it matters.

Wyrleybart · 27 Mar 2021

D7666 said:
On the subject of 360 going for maintenance, is Cauldwell ready yet ?

I think not - at least I have not seen reports to that effect, nor reports of 360s going there, they seem to be at Kettering or Cricklewood, or MML training to Kentish Town.

Cauldwell will be doing the light-er exams, Northampton the heavy-er exams, although where the demarcation is I do not know.

I suggest that what might be going on right now is that 360s have to go to Northampton for all exams, even the lightest, until Cauldwell is ready, while the future steady state with Cauldwell functioning will limit moves to Northampton for heavy-er exams only that are obviously at much greater intervals.

A GBRf 47 dragged a couple from Northampton to Kettering this week via Bletchley and Bedford. I am guessing they were off exams or maintenance.

westcoaster · 28 Mar 2021

D7666 said:
On the subject of 360 going for maintenance, is Cauldwell ready yet ?

I think not - at least I have not seen reports to that effect, nor reports of 360s going there, they seem to be at Kettering or Cricklewood, or MML training to Kentish Town.

Cauldwell will be doing the light-er exams, Northampton the heavy-er exams, although where the demarcation is I do not know.

I suggest that what might be going on right now is that 360s have to go to Northampton for all exams, even the lightest, until Cauldwell is ready, while the future steady state with Cauldwell functioning will limit moves to Northampton for heavy-er exams only that are obviously at much greater intervals.

Siemens staff are on site, works to re enable the Depot to do maintenance continue. Two roads have had the pits uncovered and the spares room is being stocked up. Believe it's a single move Kettering to cauldwell a day, then a cauldwell to cricklewood to balance the fleet.

swt_passenger · 28 Mar 2021

westcoaster said:
Siemens staff are on site, works to re enable the Depot to do maintenance continue. Two roads have had the pits uncovered and the spares room is being stocked up. Believe it's a single move Kettering to cauldwell a day, then a cauldwell to cricklewood to balance the fleet.

The inbound train to Cauldwell seems to come from Corby in RTT, but the effect is the same. It was worked out by @43055 in post #1027.

(What would otherwise be a gap in the Corby up service is filled by a through service from Melton.)

D7666 · 29 Mar 2021

westcoaster said:
Siemens staff are on site, works to re enable the Depot to do maintenance continue. Two roads have had the pits uncovered and the spares room is being stocked up. Believe it's a single move Kettering to cauldwell a day, then a cauldwell to cricklewood to balance the fleet.

Thanks, so getting ready but not actually doing 360 work yet then, so probably does explain why so many 360 movements to Northampton at the present time.

Hey 3 · 10 Apr 2021

Are any 360's stripped of the AGA livery and is now "naked" and are any 360's in the new EMR Electrics livery?

samuelmorris · 10 Apr 2021

Hey 3 said:
Are any 360's stripped of the AGA livery and is now "naked" and are any 360's in the new EMR Electrics livery?

None of the GA 360s ever wore corporate livery anyway, there were just Greater Anglia logos applied which I believe have all been removed. The blue colour is the base paint for the First Great Eastern livery the units were delivered new with.

MatthewRead · 10 Apr 2021

samuelmorris said:
None of the GA 360s ever wore corporate livery anyway, there were just Greater Anglia logos applied which I believe have all been removed. The blue colour is the base paint for the First Great Eastern livery the units were delivered new with.

115 wore the National Express livery for a brief period.

D365 · 10 Apr 2021

MatthewRead said:
115 wore the National Express livery for a brief period.

All 21 units are still painted in blue, any NX livery was just vinyl.

SPADTrap · 11 Apr 2021

59CosG95 said:
There's no reason why they can't. The UKMS cantilevers (both on UKMS100 &UKMS125) are capable of 300mm uplift (although the system manual dictates a maximum of 250mm), and Mk3 deep-curved arms (as seen on headspans) have 300mm uplift too. The legacy single track cantilevers, however, only allow for 160mm uplift, which is insufficient for 3 pans. 100mph is the changeover point for this.

Are you saying the 360s could do 110 as 8s or less south of Bedford? Without the work being done? Or have I misunderstood?

Ladder23 · 12 Apr 2021

OTRail said:
I wonder if one or two 360s are going to be temporary vinyled for launch day, or is relivery of any kind on hold until after service introduction?

when is launch day?

Aictos · 12 Apr 2021

Ladder23 said:
when is launch day?

I say 16th May as 1. That's when the new timetable takes effect and 2. If you look on RTT you will see that the headcodes change from 1MXXs/1PXXs on the Saturday to 1YXXs/1HXXs on the Sunday so I say it's a safe bet that the first time they will be in passenger service is the Sunday.

43102EMR · 12 Apr 2021

Ladder23 said:
when is launch day?

May 16th which is when the TTC occurs.

Aictos · 12 Apr 2021

Any news on how they intend it staff it with train crew? Eg will they follow Virgin Trains as they were and have one safety critical staff member in the leading unit eg Driver and have one safety critical staff member in the rear unit eg Guard?

Where would the guard be expected to work from if a 12 car turns up?

swt_passenger · 12 Apr 2021

It would be highly unusual to do a “Big Bang” overnight change of stock type on a route, surely they’ll need to run far more training turns in the run up; and normally there’d be some appear in passenger service gradually?

Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

JonathanH · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

It does happen - 195s on the Barrow / Windermere routes and then on the Calder Valley - in as much as multiple diagrams went over on the first day of operation.

T-Karmel · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
It would be highly unusual to do a “Big Bang” overnight change of stock type on a route, surely they’ll need to run far more training turns in the run up; and normally there’d be some appear in passenger service gradually?

Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

Heathrow Express was supposed to change gradually over a period of few months, then plans changed to over 5 days, yet eventually they changed overnight.

Heathrow Connect, for instance, was suppose to change to 345s and TfL Rail overnight, but after that being delayed 2 years, eventually it took them 3 months of gradual change.

swt_passenger · 12 Apr 2021

JonathanH said:
195s on the Barrow / Windermere routes and then on the Calder Valley.

Were they DMU for DMU though? Here we’ve got a suburban EMU replacing a 222...

T-Karmel said:
Heathrow Express was supposed to change gradually over a period of few months, then plans changed to over 5 days, yet eventually they changed overnight.

HEx was EMU for EMU, and the stock was already operating on most of the route, and at the main station Paddington. So drivers and station stafff gaining familiarity would have been fairly straightforward?

JonathanH · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
Were they DMU for DMU though? Here we’ve got a suburban EMU replacing a 222...

Yes, DMU for DMU - maybe a better example would be other recent electrifications in the North West and on Edinburgh-Glasgow

In the 360 case there are also wholesale diagram changes for the 222s so it is quite a big change all round. I guess what is happening is that 360s can't work already because Corby diagrams aren't self contained. The big change at the May timetable switch is that Corby goes self-contained which facilitates 360s being used.

43066 · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
HEx was EMU for EMU, and the stock was already operating on the route. So drivers gaining familiarity would have been straightforward?

360 driver and guard training has been going on for some months, and will continue once electric services begin.

A bigger concern is probably issues with the stock having sat around for several months, cut out for much of the time, although the stock used for training runs has been rotated to try to mitigate this.

Bald Rick · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
It would be highly unusual to do a “Big Bang” overnight change of stock type on a route, surely they’ll need to run far more training turns in the run up; and normally there’d be some appear in passenger service gradually?

Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

There are some self contained paths in for training, doing Corby - Kettering (and Wellingboro’), which look to me like they could be converted to passenger operation if required. They are live today, although the first one didn’t run.

Ianno87 · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

King's Lynn went from 365 to 387 operation basically overnight in May 2017.

Mikey C · 12 Apr 2021

I still think it's very disappointing that none of the 360s have been refurbished so that at the "ceremonial" first day they can at least highlight a refurbished train and the much nicer interior the final 360s will have

Just seems really poor PR to me

swt_passenger · 12 Apr 2021

Ianno87 said:
King's Lynn went from 365 to 387 operation basically overnight in May 2017.

As I said about some others later though, it’s another conversion of an existing EMU operation, I think running 222s one day and 360s the next is a bit of a step change...

But I guess we’ll see how it goes on the weekend...

westcoaster · 12 Apr 2021

swt_passenger said:
As I said about some others later though, it’s another conversion of an existing EMU operation, I think running 222s one day and 360s the next is a bit of a step change...

But I guess we’ll see how it goes on the weekend...

Its should be quiet easy, dont forget the train crew are now based at Kettering. 3 of the 4 circuits start and finish at Kettering ( so will the train crew), and 1 at St pancras.
Not really a big bang, just bring the trains out and put them away again exercise.

8 car 360 is in Cauldwell today to test the wash, and maintenance roads.

Aictos · 12 Apr 2021

westcoaster said:
Its should be quiet easy, dont forget the train crew are now based at Kettering. 3 of the 4 circuits start and finish at Kettering ( so will the train crew), and 1 at St pancras.
Not really a big bang, just bring the trains out and put them away again exercise.

8 car 360 is in Cauldwell today to test the wash, and maintenance roads.

When you say to test the wash, would that be the washer that's visible on the left side of the Midland Mainline just after the road bridge which has the buffers just before the river?

edwin_m · 12 Apr 2021

Are the Corby diagrams self-contained enough that they can put a 360 rake on a 222 diagram before the TT change, without it having to head off to somewhere embarrassingly unelectrified? Otherwise, might it have to be a "big bang" changeover because any remaining HSTs wouldn't keep up to the new timings, and until the 810s arrive they need all the 222s and 180s to run the longer-distance services.

43096 · 12 Apr 2021

edwin_m said:
Are the Corby diagrams self-contained enough that they can put a 360 rake on a 222 diagram before the TT change, without it having to head off to somewhere embarrassingly unelectrified? Otherwise, might it have to be a "big bang" changeover because any remaining HSTs wouldn't keep up to the new timings, and until the 810s arrive they need all the 222s and 180s to run the longer-distance services.

The current diagrams have the Corby services inter-working with the Nottingham semi-fast.

EMR Class 360's

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