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How do you feel about rail staff travel

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Horizon22

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How would that work? Would it have stored value like an Oyster card and you'd tap in or out; or would you insert it in the card slot on a ticket vending machine to obtain a priv rate ticket?

I imagine you could have something similar with priv rates. Most TOCs already provide smart (ITSO) cards that work on their own network gatelines, and some do multiple (for example GTR, Southeastern under the same owning group). But if there's incompatibility between barriers it presents a problem.


They are ITSO cards.

There wouldn't be any benefit that I can see. It's already possible to issue a Priv season to smartcard, I believe, but for anything else it still just a ticket. What staff need is a means of buying a ticket without having to go to a ticket office and an ITSO card isn't the answer to that.

Yes this is something that needs to be resolved. I am always honest and look for a guard/TM on board if I cannot buy beforehand for whatever reason (no ticket office normally if I've bought a single going outward), but quite often there's some issue and they can't get it to work. Whereas a ticket machine, perhaps if your had a specific ID number that allowed you to access priv tickets on a TVM and a security code of sorts to prevent fraud would be ideal.
 
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Alex27

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It would be great to be able to buy priv tickets from a TVM. I don't know how they would do it, I wonder if you could have a bit on the TVM where you could login with a username/ password issued by rstl or something. Probably wouldn't work, but I think their going to have to look at something as it's hard enough to find an open ticket office as it is, let alone if more close :lol:
 

Haywain

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It would be great to be able to buy priv tickets from a TVM. I don't know how they would do it, I wonder if you could have a bit on the TVM where you could login with a username/ password issued by rstl or something. Probably wouldn't work, but I think their going to have to look at something as it's hard enough to find an open ticket office as it is, let alone if more close :lol:
TVMs just won’t happen. It will go online through a dedicated site or dedicated access. But that’s probably a little way off yet.
 

Watershed

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TVMs just won’t happen. It will go online through a dedicated site or dedicated access. But that’s probably a little way off yet.
The big question is whether RSTL will make it mandatory to use that site, particularly in view of the fact that there is no requirement as an ordinary MOP to use your mobile phone to buy an e-ticket at a station without ticket facilities.
 

thedbdiboy

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I have a Priv season ticket on a plastic ‘smartcard’, it’s a lot more convenient compared to a cardboard ticket. When I get mine (an annual 365 day ticket) it’s actually issued as a cardboard version, then after asking me, it’s then put on my plastic ‘smartcard’.

But I don’t see how the free travel ticket (with the up to 20 or whatever boxes) can be done electronically.
The logical way to grant free travel would be using e-tickets connected to a dedicated staff travel account. The 'boxes' granted to Safeguarded staff were introduced by BR around 35 years ago to replace the pervious BR free ticket system which required an application to the local personnel dept (HR not having been invented yet... :D ). The number of free tickets you were entitled to depended on your grade and length of service. Quite a few staff would ask for something like Wick to Penzance regardless of the trip they actually wanted to make, and then try and max out as many journeys as possible before the ticket expired and without it being clipped as this would show it had been used (assisted by the willing cooperation of many of their fellow staff who would avoid clipping such tickets). The whole thing obviously became so unwieldy that self-completion of boxes was seen as a lesser temptation.
 

youngiecj

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It would be great to be able to buy priv tickets from a TVM. I don't know how they would do it, I wonder if you could have a bit on the TVM where you could login with a username/ password issued by rstl or something. Probably wouldn't work, but I think their going to have to look at something as it's hard enough to find an open ticket office as it is, let alone if more close :lol:
Although I agree it would be easier buying Priv from a TVM, least it is keeping trade at Booking Offices, which in the current climate is a positive..
 

Andrew1395

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So just so i am clear, i currently pay tax on my travel concessions (£503 this year) but once i reach 60 i will not pay tax on them?
No. You pay tax as a benefit in kind based on the money paid by your employer to Rail Staff travel. If you leave employment and retain travel facilities in retirement; your employer pays a lump sum for your facilities upfront. So you pay tax on that. If your employer is paying £503 and your marginal rate is 22% then your tax liability is approximately £111. If at retirement your employer pays £5,030 lump sum upfront for your facilities then your tax liability will be £1,110 as a one off tax charge on the benefit received.

Does anyone know if there any kind of formal criteria as to which companies are permitted to pay the RDG for their staff to have these benefits? Does the company have to be rail related? If the tax on them is £500-odd then it sounds like they would only cost roughly a grand each.

(My cunning plan may be quite transparent)
Yes the criteria is that they were a former business unit of the British Railways Board. Ranging from Railtrack to Charing Cross Canteen Limited. And of course the employee beneficiaries would have to have been an active employee of BRB on 31 March 1996.
 
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Mag_seven

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TVMs just won’t happen. It will go online through a dedicated site or dedicated access. But that’s probably a little way off yet.

I would imagine providing facilities for the easy purchase of PRIV tickets is low down the priority list of most TOCs at the moment.
 

AndrewE

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The logical way to grant free travel would be using e-tickets connected to a dedicated staff travel account. The 'boxes' granted to Safeguarded staff were introduced by BR around 35 years ago to replace the pervious BR free ticket system which required an application to the local personnel dept (HR not having been invented yet... :D ). The number of free tickets you were entitled to depended on your grade and length of service. Quite a few staff would ask for something like Wick to Penzance regardless of the trip they actually wanted to make, and then try and max out as many journeys as possible before the ticket expired and without it being clipped as this would show it had been used (assisted by the willing cooperation of many of their fellow staff who would avoid clipping such tickets). The whole thing obviously became so unwieldy that self-completion of boxes was seen as a lesser temptation.
Your first bold bit might be correct, the second certainly isn't. I have old tickets somewhere with a plethora of clips on them. In theory the position, order and shape of the clips should make the progressive use of the ticket clear.

see post https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...staff-travel-cards.215836/page-2#post-5071812
where I said
Completely wrong. It means that people living in Penzance or Inverness had travel concessions worth twice what Midlanders' were worth.

I had a (blue card ticket) free pass confiscated on the barrier at Crewe on the basis that it was "Penzance to Inverness and return" or something like that, and the person on the barrier claimed it had been used before so was fraudulent travel. It definitely had not been used before - for the part of the ticket I was on, and on every part of the journeys the ticket had been used correctly and in sequence...
The complaint/reprimand came up through BRB headquarters, across and all the way back down to me.

My boss called me in and put it to me: I said that the ticket was perfectly valid, had been used within the rules (I could produce a list of all the journeys I and my family had made on the succession of free passes) and that it was accepted custom and practice in the LMR ofice I had previously worked in. My (BRB-employed) boss went downstairs to the LMR staff office and talked to our (my ex-) staff clerk there. Whatever explanation Alan gave him, I was told I was exonerated, I never heard anything about it again and our (BRB) office clerk never queried any free pass application of mine - not that she had ever done so anyway.
 

father_jack

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Low? More like not on the list.
It was tried on the Caley sleeper to make online priv tickets available but the process was very quickly abused and subsequently withdrawn so I can't see any progress ever being made on the subject.
 

Carlisle

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I know people who only had two boxes under P&O and they'd pretty much last them indefinitely by magic pencilling/glueing them ect or even going to channel house and making a false declaration that it had been stolen
In BR times when all rail staff had boxes far more revenue staff were vigilant in checking for alterations & I heard some were routinely scanned after being exchanged for next years boxes but never found out if that was true
 

LowLevel

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In BR times when all rail staff had boxes far more revenue staff were vigilant in checking for alterations & I heard some were routinely scanned after being exchanged for next years boxes but never found out if that was true

On my ticket training course we were given example tickets to look at including some old boxes. I was looking at one and thought it didn't feel right though it looked fine and rubbed it a bit causing the completed boxes to come off and reveal an already used set underneath. I handed it to my instructor and it turned out a fairly senior member of staff had been fiddling their boxes a couple of decades ago :lol:

I think they were just thrown away at that point though.
 

Watershed

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It was tried on the Caley sleeper to make online priv tickets available but the process was very quickly abused and subsequently withdrawn so I can't see any progress ever being made on the subject.
That was because they made the discount available by entering a generic discount code. Which couldn't possibly have gone wrong...

An alternative less susceptible to fraud would be to ask for the Priv number, with RSTL giving CS a list of valid Priv numbers, or read-only access to part of their database.

If the number were leaked and misused, it would be trivial to find the member of staff responsible and to block the number (and withdraw their Priv).
 

geoffk

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A friend has national rail travel concessions, being ex-BR, and I think his wife does also, but they are not valid on open access operators, he tells me - Grand Central in his case.
 

Journeyman

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A friend has national rail travel concessions, being ex-BR, and I think his wife does also, but they are not valid on open access operators, he tells me - Grand Central in his case.
That's fair enough, those companies have no meaningful connection with BR.
 

Mag_seven

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A friend has national rail travel concessions, being ex-BR, and I think his wife does also, but they are not valid on open access operators, he tells me - Grand Central in his case.

If he holds safeguarded BR facilities (which I suspect) then there is validity on Grand Central now:

Grand Central Open access operator Grand Central accepts travel with
• Priv discounted tickets purchased with the Staff Travel Card.
• Reduced rate season tickets
• Free travel using dated Staff Travel Card boxes
• Free travel using the Eastern Region Blue Status Pass
• Free travel using a Silver Status Pass
• Free travel using a Gold Status Pass

Source: Page 46 of 82 of the following
RST_Where_Can_I_Go_SG_v9.pdf (raildeliverygroup.com)
 

RJ

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That was because they made the discount available by entering a generic discount code. Which couldn't possibly have gone wrong...

An alternative less susceptible to fraud would be to ask for the Priv number, with RSTL giving CS a list of valid Priv numbers, or read-only access to part of their database.

If the number were leaked and misused, it would be trivial to find the member of staff responsible and to block the number (and withdraw their Priv).

I think a better option would be to deny access to the train for people without the documentation to support the discount, unless they paid full fare on the spot. The current system is way too soft on people who don’t want to travel with a valid ticket!
 

BluePenguin

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I think a better option would be to deny access to the train for people without the documentation to support the discount, unless they paid full fare on the spot. The current system is way too soft on people who don’t want to travel with a valid ticket!
Is it too soft? Penalty fares, charging full fare, reporting people for prosecution, threat of a criminal record, denying access to trains should be enough.

It takes some nerve to claim a staff discount when not staff, especially how easy it is to check. You can hardly lie about it successfully. A few questions about their position and any colleagues they have is enough to rumble anyone.

The fact is, fares are much too expensive and the public are envious of how much of a discount staff get. Particularly those over 30 who don’t qualify for a railcard. So jealousy turns to temptation which quickly leads to habit
 

Haywain

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A few questions about their position and any colleagues they have is enough to rumble anyone.
Really? What is the Caledonian Sleeper attendant, based somewhere in Scotland, going to ask about my employment such that they can verify the answers?
The fact is, fares are much too expensive and the public are envious of how much of a discount staff get.
I don't think most members of the public have any idea about staff discounts, but they will use any discount code they can find online without worrying about why it's there.

Is it too soft? Penalty fares, charging full fare, reporting people for prosecution, threat of a criminal record, denying access to trains should be enough.
I think RJ was referring specifically to Caledonian Sleepers to which most of the above do not apply.
 

RJ

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Is it too soft? Penalty fares, charging full fare, reporting people for prosecution, threat of a criminal record, denying access to trains should be enough.

It takes some nerve to claim a staff discount when not staff, especially how easy it is to check. You can hardly lie about it successfully. A few questions about their position and any colleagues they have is enough to rumble anyone.

The fact is, fares are much too expensive and the public are envious of how much of a discount staff get. Particularly those over 30 who don’t qualify for a railcard. So jealousy turns to temptation which quickly leads to habit

I'm of the understanding that the people who used the discount without being entitled to it were permitted to travel on those tickets. Being required to pay the fare or spend the night on the platform then pay the fare on the next train would probably focus the minds of people who tried it on! The times I've boarded the sleeper in the Highlands, the staff have checked my tickets before letting me board so it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary.

If people want a Priv they can try doing what I did and find gainful employment on a part time basis on the railways or one of the other entities that offers it! Given there are other people who do this, I don't agree with people who go down the road of fraud or out and out evasion just because of the market prices.

Is it too soft? Penalty fares, charging full fare, reporting people for prosecution, threat of a criminal record, denying access to trains should be enough.
To be honest you don't even need to be a fare evader to have any or all of those things thrown at you. You just need to have a valid ticket the checker isn't familiar with and stand your ground. Then the whole system is vulnerable to being totally undermined!
 
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Egg Centric

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If people want a Priv they can try doing what I did and find gainful employment on a part time basis on the railways or one of the other entities that offers it!

Could you elaborate a bit on this? Not necessarily what you personally did if you're unwilling to share (although I'd be interested!) but what the easiest way to get a priv is?
 

Llanigraham

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If people want a Priv they can try doing what I did and find gainful employment on a part time basis on the railways or one of the other entities that offers it!

But not employed by Network Rail!
 

RJ

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Could you elaborate a bit on this? Not necessarily what you personally did if you're unwilling to share (although I'd be interested!) but what the easiest way to get a priv is?

I simply applied for a ticket office clerk job that was advertised on a TOC website back in my student days and the rest is history. Before that I had a part time job as a trolly dolly for a different TOC. Helping people out with their tickets is more of a vocation for me than silver service.

People I know had other part time gigs at other companies - TOCs, travel agents, ferry operators, preserved railways etc where Privs more generous than the one I have came as a perk.

The opportunities are there for those who want to look for them!
 

bramling

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But not employed by Network Rail!

It is rather odd that NR staff get precisely nothing (unless safeguarded), yet you can get a PRIV by working on certain preserved railways - though that does mean working, not just doing a bit of volunteering AIUI.

Having a safeguarded partner is clearly a good way to get one though.
 

Dai Corner

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Lonely Hearts ad:

Single F, non-driver, own house, WLTM railwayman for co-habitation, travel. NR/FOC need not apply unless ex-BR.
 

bramling

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Someone mentioned on here recently that the only requirement for someone to put you onto their priv is for you to live with them full time

I thought there had to be a meaningful relationship, unless this has changed recently? It is TfL nominee passes where it is simply someone living at the same address.

Lonely Hearts ad:

Single F, non-driver, own house, WLTM railwayman for co-habitation, travel. NR/FOC need not apply unless ex-BR.

You may jest, however I know someone whose wife forbade him from retiring so that she could keep her TfL nominee pass, which unlike PRIV has no restrictions on commuting use, and was therefore quite valuable. The poor bloke ended up having to do a job-share to reduce his hours.

The things people do for love! :)
 
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