-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Step 3 confirmed for 17th May
- Thread starter Nicholas Lewis
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Let's hope the public transport requirement can be ditched soon too.
I hope so too, but if any restriction is going to be here for the long term - or even permanently - its masks on public transport. Though the Government say we need to learn to live with the virus (which we certainly do), I believe the Government are too scared to completely abolish compulsory mask rules and social distancing.
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
I'm not so sure. Patrick Vallance was talking about reintroducing face coverings on public transport in winter implying the mandate may be removed before then.
Even if they do scrap the mandate, I think a lot of people will still wear them anyway out of choice (which will hopefully stop them being re-mandated) particularly on crowded services (the tube, for example) and in smaller/confined shops
brad465
Established Member
It was a question asked to Johnson in Parliament where I recall him confirming it if all goes to plan, we just have to hope he follows through on that.
An interesting point. I hate wearing one, but in the last 12 months of mask wearing I haven’t got a single bout of any minor illness. Normally would get a cold, or sore throat or sniffy nose a few times a year. Nothing this last year, so maybe they have positive benefits unrelated to covid
From my point of view, I choose a cold over seeing people with half a face but others will disagree.
Journeyman
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 6,295
I suspect that has much more to do with social distancing than masks.
Yeah, there's no way I consider a cold serious enough to insist on masks. Once the compulsion goes, I'm never wearing one again under any circumstances.
I’ll be honest amongst friends I may not have particularly abided by social distancing, I have carried on as normal, and in shops people generally come into my space as they always have done, so I’m not convinced social distancing is more to do with it.
bramling
Veteran Member
I'm not surprised with this if it's true - for if they're planning to do a retrenchment on WFH then there will be wails of protest from the "it's too dangerous" brigade, for which masks on trains is a counter. I bet enforcement will be completely scaled back to nothing though.
Indeed, I notice the Sun article hints that masks on trains may be "possibly without the fines", which does hint that it's more a sop rather than a serious measure. That allows public opinion to take over; we can bet masks will be much less common in supermarkets when no longer mandated, just like they were rare the night before it came in.
Last edited:
Doesn't the legislation requiring masks on public transport expire before then anyway? In that case removing the requirement in all settings except public transport makes sense given that there will be no requirement on public transport anyway because the legislation has already expired.
4-5 days before 21st June I believe I seen somewhere earlier this week
brad465
Established Member
Concerns in Bolton as the Indian variant is apparently responsible for a surge in covid cases in the town and is making hospitality businesses here nervous ahead of next weeks' reopening indoors:
One would hope though that as rates are highest among the unvaccinated under-25s, that serious illness rates won't be alarming, and that as the vaccination programme continues things will improve overall.
Covid: Bolton Indian variant surge leaves hospitality nervous
Pub and cafe owners in Bolton are apprehensive about reopening amid a rise in the Indian variant.
www.bbc.co.uk
One would hope though that as rates are highest among the unvaccinated under-25s, that serious illness rates won't be alarming, and that as the vaccination programme continues things will improve overall.
bramling
Veteran Member
Concerns in Bolton as the Indian variant is apparently responsible for a surge in covid cases in the town and is making hospitality businesses here nervous ahead of next weeks' reopening indoors:
Covid: Bolton Indian variant surge leaves hospitality nervous
Pub and cafe owners in Bolton are apprehensive about reopening amid a rise in the Indian variant.www.bbc.co.uk
One would hope though that as rates are highest among the unvaccinated under-25s, that serious illness rates won't be alarming, and that as the vaccination programme continues things will improve overall.
Unless there’s anything new, this seems to be “no news here”. The government has never given a stuff about under-25s getting it, the justification for restrictions affecting such age groups has always been the risk of “bleed over” into more vulnerable groups.
So if a spike in under 25s is a major issue now we have vulnerable people vaccinated with at least one shot, this would represent a major goalpost move. I think the government no longer has enough usable political capital to be able to get away with that - enough people have had enough now, and the vaccines have been enough to allay fears for most people. What’s left is the terrified types, and the ones who want to maintain their zombie lifestyle as long as possible.
Hospitalisations and deaths in Bolton have not as of yet risen at all. Bolton has not actually had any deaths for a fortnight. There's no reason to be worried if everyone is getting only very mild or even no symptoms.
Last edited:
chris11256
Member
- Joined
- 27 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 734
My concern is that there’ll be immense pressure for the government to be seen to be doing something about the rise in Indian variant cases. So I’m fully expecting this irreversible roadmap to suddenly very reversible.
Despite the fact that the link between cases, hospital admissions & deaths has now been broken.
Despite the fact that the link between cases, hospital admissions & deaths has now been broken.
I seem to recall that the masks on public transport (at least the aboard vehicles side) is under a separate order, IIRC signed by Grant Shapps rather than Matt Hancock. I also seem to recall that it is due to expire outright in mid-June, seemingly the 15th. Frankly its renewal is very hard to justify, unless it can be positively proven that the new variants are resistant to vaccines, which I cannot see happening.
Class 33
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,362
The media are all over it today about the surge in cases & infection rates in the Bolton area, the urgent SAGE meeting today, and the fact that the 21st June final easing of lockdown & restrictions could be delayed. As it stands at the moment there is nothing to worry about the situation in Bolton, and Johnson in one or two of his press conferences back in February said they will no longer be concentrating on the numbers of cases & infection rates in each review stage. But I have a bad feeling about this bloody SAGE meeting today, they could get their way and come up with some claptrap as to why the next stages of the roadmap must be delayed, and there'll be a press conference this evening giving us the bad news. Please god, NO!
I don't think anyone, not even SAGE, are suggesting that the easing of lockdown planned for this coming Monday is going to be cancelled.
Were that to be the case, it would make Boris, Whitty & Vallance look very stupid, and call into question their judgement on the figures available.
What happens over the next few weeks will determine the extent to which restrictions can be eased on June 21st.
I think the hope is that, whilst cases of the Indian variant rise, hospitalisations do not rise at the same rate. The government is also hoping that the outbreaks can be contained to small localised areas rather than spreading over a whole region. If these two things happen, I think the easing of lockdown planned for June 21st will go ahead, although I can't help thinking that some small restrictions will remain until the end of July when everyone has been vaccinated.
Should be noted that the rise in Bolton is specifically in the Great Lever, Rumworth and Deane areas of the BL3 postcode. The rest of Bolton has much lower levels broadly in line with the rest of the North West. Also within this area there is virtually no outdoor hospitality. The rise is being blamed by the council on families coming back from India and Pakistan bringing the variant into multi generation households, then children mixing at school. It has not been stated whether this is due to them breaching the rules or that the rules don't work.
As there is virtually no pubs and no other outdoor hospitality within this area, it's mainly tight terraced housing, hospitality cannot be blamed at all on this occasion, however I feel the government may use it as a reason to delay hospitality opening and getting back to normal.
Indeed. Just because hospitality isn't to blame, won't stop SAGE scapegoating it. They would ensure it was first to the sword regardless.
I think that what may save hospitality this time round might be that we are so far down the road, the political backlash of changing the May relaxation would be unacceptable to the Government.
philosopher
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Sep 2015
- Messages
- 1,349
I think delaying the 21st June easing is possible. A concerning new variant was one of the reasons given for why they may delay the roadmap. SAGE may consider that B.1.617.2 (the Indian variant they are most concerned about) is sufficiently concerning that the roadmap should be delayed.
Next Monday’s easing I think is pretty much a given as not going ahead with it now would just anger too many people. However I would not rule out a local lockdown or postponing the easing in Bolton or other places with high infection rates.
Hopefully SAGE will such suggest measures such as faster vaccination or faster vaccination where B.1.617.2 is spreading fastest, rather than more or longer restrictions.
nlogax
Established Member
This is the first big test of the government's stated desire to stick to the roadmap using 'data not dates' with the massive advantage vaccines afford us in breaking the link between cases and hospitalisations / deaths. If nationwide restrictions are extended based on the Bolton situation then the government is in for a world of hurt.
Class 33
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,362
Indeed. If the final stage of the roadmap and the end of all restrictions for the whole country is delayed just based on the Bolton situation, this will be absolutely unacceptable. And if this does happen I hope many MP's, business leaders and the general public really kick up a fuss about this. I've just had a look at the stats for Bolton. There's been only 3 deaths within the past month! And only 13 people in hospital. They need to look at the hospital numbers and deaths stats, and stop once and for all this fixation on cases numbers and infection rates! The link between cases leading to hospitalizations and deaths has been broken!
We had better not be getting bad news later today......
Bantamzen
Established Member
Why is it that whenever a significant review or relaxation date comes into view, SAGE go into panic overdrive, often landing with a new variant or other reason why the lifting of restrictions should be reconsidered or reversed or worsened? At times it feels like the panic is really driven by SAGE members desperate not to lose their place in the sun, and this not helped by things like the "Hug Guru" video recent aired on the BBC News channel.
I don't doubt their credentials in their fields, however I am becoming increasingly suspicious of their motivations. It does increasingly feel like they are still eying the kingmaker status of "zero covid", and they are prepared to do almost anything to achieve it. My hope is that the cabinet are still committed to continuing the roadmap to it's conclusion next month, and are not distracted by their advisors foretelling doom at every turn.
kristiang85
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jan 2018
- Messages
- 2,655
Here's a reassuring set of tweets from an FT journalist: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1392541111713939464
(click Twitter link for illustrations, links, etc.)
Hopefully this is the kind of chat that will be going on in the SAGE meeting later.
(click Twitter link for illustrations, links, etc.)
Hopefully this is the kind of chat that will be going on in the SAGE meeting later.
Stop the press, according to Prof Christina Pagel, we are not yet worthy of our soon-to-be granted further freedoms. She's not sure B.1.617.2 is not a threat and that 'moving to Stage 3 of the roadmap right now risks adding fuel to the fire'.
https://twitter.com/chrischirp/s ... 1999466501
https://twitter.com/chrischirp/s ... 1999466501
If people like her had their way we would never be granted further freedoms.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Indeed, because its easier to offer solutions that keep subjects in boxes than it is to offer solutions that have more variables (i.e. people interacting). SAGE are currently in full panic mode as their dreams of being the kingmakers to the elimination of SARS-CoV-2 are falling apart, hence the increasingly desperate attempts to stop relaxations in their tracks.
- Status