In September 2020 the Thalys CEO told newspaper La Tribune that the merger is to go ahead in 2021:
Rough translation
Thalys figures for 2020:
- 2,5 Million passengers (-70%)
- turnover: 165,6 Million Euros (-70%)
- revenue: loss of 137,7 Million Euros
-
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Without additional funding from government there is a real risk to the survival of Eurostar
- Thread starter Sniffingmoose
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In September 2020 the Thalys CEO told newspaper La Tribune that the merger is to go ahead in 2021:
Thalys figures for 2020:
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StephenHunter
Established Member
Not sure. In any event, France will be allowing fully vaccinated Brits in from May.
Is that an official statement? I'm looking forward to using some E* vouchers this year
Travel to France will only be possible once they have enough people vaccinated there and the virus is under control. May is too soon. There will also be mandatory PCR testing until the UK has implemented vaccine passports and those have been deemed ‘equivalent’ by the EU. (The vaccination cards with a bit of biro ink on aren’t going to be accepted by anyone as they are too easy to forge).
Gloster
Established Member
But will a lot of people be reluctant to travel in case they get there and then restrictions on people travelling to Britain are brought in by the UK government? (Although the UK government seems to still be being dilatory in taking unpleasant decisions.)
That's a big put-off for me. The risk of not being able to prove a positive Covid test to return (for myself and anybody I'm travellling with) and thus a big bill for short notice accommodation until I can.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Personally I will not travel internationally until all restrictions are removed, even if that is a matter of years. I'm OK with vaccine passports for travel, but nothing more, not even masks for the length of time involved (it's not just the flight, it's during all the airport faff at both ends).
At some point, once the risk is lower, package holidays will provide cover for that situation. Its too much of a risk now but in a few months they should be able to accurately estimate the risk (spread across all their operations).
EU current target is 70% of adult population having first dose by mid July. Our government might (and should) put the bar for green list higher than that. Something like 75-80% of entire population would be safer. That would require almost all adults to be offered a vaccine. The EU roll out of first doses is not due to be completed until end of September.
France, Belgium and Netherlands on amber list would still mean a significant increase in Eurostar usage. Five days test and release quarantine is better than it being illegal to travel! It is not clear whether FCO will be warning against non essential travel to amber list. Amber list seems to be about wider public health risk than individual risk.
I'd be much more comfortable on a Eurostar or Ferry, where distancing is much easier.
With hotels at lower than usual occupancy, that could actually be a good initiative from tour operators, where the marginal cost to them of keeping a few extra rooms in reserve (or seats on a less than fully laden flight) is relatively low.
westernwolf
New Member
I assume the TMST in question was 3211/3212 coming back from Lille after TBL1+ modifications. A 373 ws pressed into service in 2020 to cover a 374 but the fleet is stood down.
Thanks, that must have been it. I thought I was seeing things!
Stephen Lee
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I hope so, probably start services from London-Frankfurt/Berlin hahahah
The rising issues in such countries are commonly well reported in the press for some time before the government takes action. It's not an issue for those doing a quick holiday trip - it's people on longer stays, granny with the family for the winter, students with short-term jobs, etc, who are the ones that get impacted and whinge to the press.
If the government is cautious on the green list then it shouldn't be a problem this year. Countries with high vaccination rates of the western vaccines are highly unlikely to suffer a surge in cases. Hungary and Serbia both heavily use a Chinese vaccine with an (unofficial) efficacy of 50.2% but they are outliers.
France, Belgium and Netherlands look set for the Amber list on 17th May. That will likely mean a return of some services but still a low frequency. 5-10 days at home quarantine will put off the majority travelers. It looks like the Green list and Foreign Office travel advice will differ. That will effectively make the amber list two tiered. Countries without a travel warning will be open for package holidays and be covered by regular insurance while those with a travel warning won't.
Gloster
Established Member
But would the insurers not cover themselves against the possibility of restrictions being introduced between booking and departure, or the government needing to bring in restrictions at short notice (although so far their track-record is one of dithering) or any other changes to regulations? Cynical as one may be about insurers, it is not unreasonable that they make provision for unexpected difficulties in an unusually volatile situation. And if someone is going to put several thousand pounds (NB. I have never been on a package holiday of any sort so have no idea of the going rate), they might think twice about it if the insurers say, “Sorry, no cover for anything related to Covid.”
StephenHunter
Established Member
The insurers have been saying that since March 2020.
Insurers have been covering stuff related to covid since last summer, what is covered depends on the provider (and the price). Changes to travel advice are not covered which makes flexible bookings essential. Most insurers will provide cover for medical treatment for covid. Axa and Staysure both provide cover for extension of stay if you test positive before your return train/flight (with the huge number of empty hotel rooms this likely won't cost them much). Its highly unlikely that a country such as Malta with over half of adults vaccinated would suffer a major surge in cases. It looks like the green list will be limited to countries with high vaccination rates and only those who have used vaccines with high efficacy rates (e.g. not Chile or Serbia). Last year was a different situation because cases rises could occur in any country for a range of reasons. People shouldn't book tickets that do not allow rebooking. Package holidays T&Cs will almost all allow for rebooking in event of travel advice changing before travel. If they don't people shouldn't book them. As long as Eurostar allows rebooking flexibility then passenger numbers should begin to recover. I don't know whether the package providers for Eurostar currently provide flexibility. The three destinations look set for the Amber list so I haven't bothered looking.
The main factor limiting international travel this year will be psychological. A chunk of population has spent 14 months barely leaving their homes and think doing much at all puts them at risk. People who don't feel safe going to a restaurant aren't going to board Eurostar or a flight regardlesss of whether they can book a flexible, insured holiday.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It appears Eurostar has negotiated a £250m bailout package with its shareholders and banks (ie not the UK government).
SNCF and the other shareholders must have stumped up the money.
It's at 1120 in this BBC live blog (ignore the headline!):
Covid: Millions enjoy new freedoms after lockdown easing - BBC News
With a bit more detail from City AM:
Eurostar receives £250m refinancing package after months of waiting (msn.com)
PS This now has its own section with more details on the BBC web site:
Eurostar secures £250m rescue package - BBC News
SNCF and the other shareholders must have stumped up the money.
It's at 1120 in this BBC live blog (ignore the headline!):
Covid: Millions enjoy new freedoms after lockdown easing - BBC News
With a bit more detail from City AM:
Eurostar receives £250m refinancing package after months of waiting (msn.com)
So it's a multinational deal involving Barclays and Natwest for the UK.
PS This now has its own section with more details on the BBC web site:
Eurostar secures £250m rescue package - BBC News
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The Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/05/18/eurostar-rescued-france-bows-british-demands/) more explicitly states that no British Government funding is included in the deal.
BananaRepublic
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A number of investors have stumped up the money....
SNCF and the other shareholders can now continue with the merger of Eurostar and Thalys.
x
SNCF and the other shareholders can now continue with the merger of Eurostar and Thalys.
x
StephenHunter
Established Member
Then put the Amsterdam operation under TEE 2.0...
Gag Halfrunt
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The TEE 2.0 concept document includes it as TEE 59/60. See pages 189-191.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It might mean that the service will not develop in the way the UK wants - it will have no leverage.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I can see Ashford and Ebbsfleet suffering. Totally commercial stopping could make them used as much my Eurostar as Stratford international
BRX
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How does it change anything from the amount of leverage "the UK" had previously?
it wasnt going to develop UK side anyway,regional eurostar is dead and has been for years
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