Would that be possible before the Woking flyover is built?
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SWR December 2022 Timetable Consultation
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Thanks for the info. Remarkable how that 'divider' pattern continued, and at roughly the same time each hour (was latterly xx12), for 22 years (1967-May 1989).
Presumably it could use platform 5 (down slow) at Woking if the timings were right.
Didn’t they build platform 3 because the stoppers couldn’t fit across the junction? Putting it to Guildford via P5 is just moving the junction move along a bit.
WelshBluebird
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Obviously we are in a post Covid world now so maybe it won't be much of an issue, but I know previously the Bristol - Waterloo services provided some much needed additional capacity between Temple Meads and Salisbury. Hope we don't suffer too much with the loss of those!
traveller1
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The Cardiff to Waterloo services and Milford/Carmarthen/Maesteg to Waterloo service were previous franchise committments. In Wessex Trains days, the line was going to be taken over by them, and run Barnstaple/Falmouth/Paignton - Waterloo services as through services. Innovation we will probably never see again!
vikingdriver
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Hopefully GWR can regularly turn out 5 car formations to lessen the impact. There are certainly a lot who actively sought out the SWT/R services and I suspect this won't go down well!
The SWR services were very expensive to provide in terms of crew knowledge and units.
Maybe GWR introducing a regular 2-hourly Bristol to Salisbury stopper would work? In the 90s something similar to that ran, it was extended to Southampton in those days though that was (presumably) primarily to serve Dean and Dunbridge which now have other services.
You could have it going to Weymouth in one hour and Salisbury in the other; the 90s pattern was something like that but a little irregular in terms of destination each hour.
Alternatively is the 'Trans Wilts' Swindon-Salisbury regular-interval stopper idea ever going to get off the ground?
Isn’t GWR introducing a Bristol-Westbury MetroWest service? Couldn’t that be extended to Salisbury
So how does this work on a Sunday? Is the Island line regimes to match the trains from Portsmohth?
It takes at least 58 minutes vers 30 minutes and two out of the three trains get overtaken. The remaining one only arrives at Clapham Junction 8 minutes earlier than the next fast train. That may be helpful if you need to get to Clapham Junction 8 minutes earlier than the fast train to make a connection.Of course anybody from Guildford wanting Clapham Junction can easily travel on the stoppers via London Road
I don't know if that would work timerabling wise but would that cost more money? Or would additional revenue offset the costs?
Do they have 5 car units available for this?
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HamworthyGoods
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On Sunday both the ferry and the Fast service between Portsmouth Harbour and Waterloo is only hourly.
So for passengers from Portsmouth to London the service is worse than a weekday as it’s 1 fast and 1 slow train (departing on a 15/45 minute pattern) instead of a half-hourly fast, but for Guildford to Clapham for your particularly journey Sundays works out a better spread of departures than weekdays.
Public Transport unfortunately can’t provide what everyone wants every single day, it’s usually a compromise.
There are stopping services to and from Guildford in the peaks. I'm not saying it is viable all day but it does happen in the peaks. 8:22 Guildford to Waterloo and two from Waterloo in the evening that run fast to Surbiton before being a stopper to Guildford via Woking.
If this is just a case of removing services and adding in stops on remaining services then it isn't really a full recast. More changes to the existing timetable that are more than minor but not major across the board as a whole.
Clapham Junction as a destination to change trains must also be more popular now than it was 40 years ago.
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The reality that Clapham Junction isn’t really an interchange for SWML in peak hours is mental, and I can‘t believe fixing it isn’t a higher priority.
I can see it would be very expensive and the stabling issue is a real tricky one, but the gains in travel terms must be huge, and the space available to build something on top of Clapham Yard must be worth a fortune?
I can see it would be very expensive and the stabling issue is a real tricky one, but the gains in travel terms must be huge, and the space available to build something on top of Clapham Yard must be worth a fortune?
Kite159
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Hopefully GWR will extend a later train beyond Westbury to Warminster/Salisbury to replace the SWR 2223 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury on a Saturday night, as that one normally is popular for passengers returning home after a good night out in Bristol or Bath.
Ie extending the 2209 Bristol Temple Meads - Westbury service to Salisbury. Otherwise the last service from Bristol to Warminster & beyond will be the 21:23-ish from Bristol [20:30 from Cardiff] which the times I've used it is only a 3 coach unit and does get busy, especially on days where events are happening./
Ie extending the 2209 Bristol Temple Meads - Westbury service to Salisbury. Otherwise the last service from Bristol to Warminster & beyond will be the 21:23-ish from Bristol [20:30 from Cardiff] which the times I've used it is only a 3 coach unit and does get busy, especially on days where events are happening./
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I lived in London 1981-1984 and at the time people wouldn't admit to living in Clapham, let alone Clapham Junction. Now even Battersea is a "desirable" place to live.
I now visit a friend who lives in Clapham, sometimes taking the train to Clapham Junction and then the bus from there. The area has changed radically.
In 1983 I remember going to Clapham Junction to watch the trains go by, and nothing stopped there on the SWML. I guess the problem now is that if that's going to change, everything needs to stop there.
Kite159
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Clapham Junction probably has increased in popularity due to the frequent London Overground services. Especially if it means someone can avoid paying a "via zone 1" fare
Indeed they can't but I feel having just one fast train from Guildford to Clapham Junction is a compromise too far.
It also can take longer going via zone 1 to get to places. For example Shepherds Bush.
It takes passengers out of zone 1 and the tube. Is that better for the tube network if more passengers use the London Overground?
That is before you get to those wanting stations in south-east London or even London Victoria.
I guess one could argue if you don't like the service provision move to another town where this won't be a problem.
Goldfish62
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Pre-pandemic Clapham Junction was absolutely insane in the peaks and it's still very busy even now.
Kite159
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Does it still have that idiotic one way system effectively closing off the subway if you want to change trains to a higher number platform?
That reminds me of the time a slam door train stopped on platform 8 in the peaks. Some people got off. I wasn't sure whether I should or not as the train should not have stopped there in a perfect world. Eventually, I decided to follow them.
I was going to Kensington Olympia for the World Travel Market and that morning it cut my journey time.
Would changing Clapham Junction, to enable more trains to stop increase revenue or decrease running costs elsewhere? If not, given people won't be buying tickets into Waterloo and paying extra to use the tube, it that a disincentive to do anything? This is assuming everything is about increasing profit rather than doing something to benefit society.
Goldfish62
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I've not been there for a few weeks.
A few weeks ago I went in the north entrance and wanted to go to Platform 6. Despite it being a very short distance along the subway and the subway being clear at the time I was made to walk along P2 and over the footbridge, thus passing many more people than I would otherwise have done. Grrrr!!!
SWR claims that some of the reduction in frequency can be recuperated from the increase of capacity thanks to the new 701s. This has a whiff from certain bus companies that, when revising timetables, would replace a 10-minute single-decker bus service with a 20-minute double-decker bus service. Post-pandemic passengers will not be heartened to see such a service reduction, thus we would not see passenger numbers regaining to previous figures.
HamworthyGoods
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On a largely commuting based railway with new working practices I don’t think anyone expects to see passengers numbers at previous figures again.
When I passed through there yesterday I noticed it had all disappeared, no longer signs on the subway saying 'Exit to Grant Road only'. Also gone is the one way in/out to the road by the Jubilee line at Waterloo - and most of the 'out of use' urinals at Waterloo have been put back into use.
As for Clapham Junction interchange, a while back when going to Banstead when there was some disruption it took me four trains to get there, each one changed to fast and missing Clapham after I had got on it! For such a busy station you would have thought Clapham was not the one to skip.
Kite159
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Thats good with the one-way system at Waterloo, seemed to cause more hold-ups of passenger movements with people entering the station from the Jubilee line mixing with those leaving the station to access Waterloo Road, which got narrowed due to the barriers.
I was at Clapham a couple of months ago (end of May), wanting to visit the Sainsburys to get something to eat, the entrance at the top of the ramp (near the toilets) was busy with passengers going both ways, whereas the entrance in the subway was pretty much dead]
No idea, but as the long-term study
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swml-strategic-study.220415/
points out, it would be a major exercise.
Nicholas Lewis
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The reality currently though is no one really knows how its going to play out as currently working from home has been enforced until recently and even now most companies are only slowly encouraging staff back to work. Another factor to look at is commercial property is not on its feet with plenty of expensive buildings being bought up at above book prices over the last 3 months so investors believe they have a future.
Some thinning of the peak is a positive leaving the network with more resilience and the avoidance of ever more expensive and disruptive infrastructure schemes should be kicked into the long grass. However, this proposal does nothing to recognise that modal shift is an absolute necessity to decarbonise road transport and service frequencies need to be set to encourage that in areas of higher housing density like the Hounslow Loop although dialling back the longer distance services makes more sense.
But how will this save serious amounts of money is hard to understand with lease charges being fixed and the 701's costing more than the 455's let alone whether you will need all of them. You only save on staff costs by reducing them yet the industry has a no redundancy agreement with the unions so it will only happen through natural wastage.
A no compulsory redundancy agreement. For another 5 months.
Nicholas Lewis
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OK doesn't leave much time though for retraining opportunities which was also committed to.
Goldfish62
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The thing is in a labour-industry such as the railways staff costs are serious amounts of money.
Natural wastage isn't the only alternative to compulsory redundancy. There's also voluntary redundancy. I know a couple of people who are crossing their fingers this might happen to them.
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