Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

Bletchleyite · 7 Sep 2021

mad_rich said:
Shame about the lack of first class. Maybe they will do 'standard plus', where one coach gets a free seat next to you and inclusive catering. Seems unlikely.

Another "low cost airline" type idea I thought they might offer (as MTR do in Scandinavia) is to allow booking of the seat next to you for a reduced fare (e.g. child fare).

superalbs said:
Just read some T&Cs on their website. It states that 350 seats can be reserved, while the rest cannot.

Apparently you must sit in your reserved seat too, unless you don't have one.

That is technically part of the standard Advance T&C though none of the TOCs currently enforce it.

Ianno87 said:
You could just buy two seats....

Child fare would be the sneaky way. But if they allow walk-ups and aren't fully CR it won't work - a walk-up passenger could sit there.

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TheBigD · 7 Sep 2021

mad_rich said:
As somebody who travels between Newcastle and London, it's great to see some choice and competition. (I know there's competition if I wanted to take XC or TP to York, then GC, but I don't.)

Three hours' journey time - bang on halfway between a typical fast LNER train (2h50) and a slow one (3h10) seems fine. The Anytime fare isn't massively cheaper than a LNER off-peak (£59 vs £76). Maybe if they get up to five trains and I can travel in the peak, it will be useful
Shame about the lack of first class. Maybe they will do 'standard plus', where one coach gets a free seat next to you and inclusive catering. Seems unlikely.

From memory they won't be running in the Peak. 0545, 1045, 1215, 1435, 2025 from Kings Cross was the initial proposed times. Southbound, I think 1045 was the earliest arrival in to Kings Cross.

357 · 7 Sep 2021

Noticed on Facebook that in many cases (IanVisits for example) replies are being made from staffs personal Facebook accounts and not the corporate page.

option · 7 Sep 2021

Bletchleyite said:
One of the key things they seemed to be suggesting they would do is full "low cost airline" style pricing removed entirely from ORCATS, i.e. compulsory reservation, only Advance tickets (with no capping Anytime fare, though classically £299 was the highest easyJet/Ryanair fare) and potentially things like upselling stuff like seat selection and additional luggage entitlement. Basically to see how people saw that model in the UK.

How could they do that?

Airlines have a check-in desk that everyone goes through, so there is a check/control on luggage.

Watershed · 7 Sep 2021

TheBigD said:
From memory they won't be running in the Peak. 0545, 1045, 1215, 1435, 2025 from Kings Cross was the initial proposed times. Southbound, I think 1045 was the earliest arrival in to Kings Cross.

The first LNER Super Off-Peak service from Newcastle/Edinburgh gets into London at 11:39. So that's a good hour earlier, and for £20 less.

The Off-Peak ticket offered a reasonable mid-ground between that and an Anytime fare, but has been abolished for London-Newcastle and Edinburgh (only). Most people wouldn't think of buying a ticket to Manors/Haymarket instead.

LNER will need to offer very competitive Advance tickets to compete with the early morning departure out of Kings Cross, given that Lumo's price will be capped at £59/69 whereas LNER would otherwise be capped at the Anytime interavailable ticket costing £169/170.

The lack of an evening peak departure will make Lumo an unattractive option for most business travellers - but that's not the market that they're after.

mad_rich · 7 Sep 2021

Ianno87 said:
You could just buy two seats....

If I could guarantee it would remain free, I would (at the right price).

But if somebody got on without a reservation and wanted to sit next to me - I can't imagine they would take it well if I said "no, you can't sit there. I paid for it because I'm rich and important"! It would need to be officially sanctioned in some way.

Bletchleyite · 7 Sep 2021

option said:
How could they do that?

Airlines have a check-in desk that everyone goes through, so there is a check/control on luggage.

Charge you as they come through.

zero · 7 Sep 2021

I selected window seat but I was unable to get one even after trying over 50 times (after deciphering the poor seat maps).

Booked and got an e-ticket by email, so don't worry it's not an m-ticket which is tied to the app

option · 7 Sep 2021

Bletchleyite said:
Charge you as they come through.

So where is the 'additional luggage space' that would be chargeable, & how would they link bag to customer?

Bletchleyite · 7 Sep 2021

zero said:
I selected window seat but I was unable to get one even after trying over 50 times (after deciphering the poor seat maps).

Booked and got an e-ticket by email, so don't worry it's not an m-ticket which is tied to the app

Can Trainsplit sell them? If so that might be a way to get a seat selector.

superalbs · 7 Sep 2021

zero said:
I selected window seat but I was unable to get one even after trying over 50 times (after deciphering the poor seat maps).

Booked and got an e-ticket by email, so don't worry it's not an m-ticket which is tied to the app

I had the exact same issue booking on a number of sites for a CrossCountry train, it would only return aisle seats. Gave up and went through Twitter in the end, must be a bigger issue.

TheAlbanach_ · 7 Sep 2021

Are there only three luggage racks in the whole train? The seat plan on the site is awful but it looks like there is only 1 per coach, and none in the driving cabs. Think they’re gonna run into problems with that. LNER had to take out seats to add more luggage space.

zero · 7 Sep 2021

Bletchleyite said:
Can Trainsplit sell them? If so that might be a way to get a seat selector.

The Lumo service doesn't appear on a Trainsplit search.

I'm mainly going in order to travel on the York avoiding line (as well as meeting someone in Glasgow) so I'll just stand by a door for a few minutes if it turns out that all seats are occupied...

notadriver · 7 Sep 2021

zero said:
The Lumo service doesn't appear on a Trainsplit search.

I'm mainly going in order to travel on the York avoiding line (as well as meeting someone in Glasgow) so I'll just stand by a door for a few minutes if it turns out that all seats are occupied...

I wonder how much time it will spend at 125 mph. Sounds like it will be following stopping trains and maybe using the slow lines ?

jfollows · 7 Sep 2021

notadriver said:
I wonder how much time it will spend at 125 mph. Sounds like it will be following stopping trains and maybe using the slow lines ?

Lots of pathing time in schedules I grant you, but a quick look at the times (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LD for example) show no slow line use on any of the down services I've looked at.
But you're right about fitting in with other trains:
1S93 10:45 down has 27 additional minutes in pathing allowance, 5 minutes in engineering allowance and 5 minutes in performance allowance, so 37 additional minutes on top of the base schedule.

zero said:
I'm mainly going in order to travel on the York avoiding line (as well as meeting someone in Glasgow) so I'll just stand by a door for a few minutes if it turns out that all seats are occupied...

Some of the services are booked to use York station, although how that works out in practice remains to be seen.

Master29 · 7 Sep 2021

mad_rich said:
If I could guarantee it would remain free, I would (at the right price).

But if somebody got on without a reservation and wanted to sit next to me - I can't imagine they would take it well if I said "no, you can't sit there. I paid for it because I'm rich and important"! It would need to be officially sanctioned in some way.

I wonder if the TOC,s are OK with people doing this. I know you can on airlines.

gazr · 7 Sep 2021

Willing to give them a try for 30 quid return to Newcastle. If nothing else, it's a day out. Managed to book on the inaugural service out of the cross, which I expect will be quite full.

zero · 7 Sep 2021

jfollows said:
Lots of pathing time in schedules I grant you, but a quick look at the times (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LD for example) show no slow line use on any of the down services I've looked at.
But you're right about fitting in with other trains:
1S93 10:45 down has 27 additional minutes in pathing allowance, 5 minutes in engineering allowance and 5 minutes in performance allowance, so 37 additional minutes on top of the base schedule.

Some of the services are booked to use York station, although how that works out in practice remains to be seen.

I know, I posted my findings in the previous thread.

Darandio · 7 Sep 2021

jfollows said:
Some of the services are booked to use York station, although how that works out in practice remains to be seen.

From a quick glance it seems only southbound services will pass through the station. Makes complete sense considering the potential for conflicts at Skelton Bridge Junction.

jfollows · 7 Sep 2021

Darandio said:
From a quick glance it seems only southbound services will pass through the station. Makes complete sense considering the potential for conflicts at Skelton Bridge Junction.

1S95 12:18 King's Cross to Edinburgh booked to pass York 14:15 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C18718/2021-12-14/detailed)
1S99 20:18 King's Cross to Edinburgh booked to pass York 22:14 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C18724/2021-12-14/detailed)
according to RTT for December 14th. at least

Bletchleyite · 7 Sep 2021

Master29 said:
I wonder if the TOC,s are OK with people doing this. I know you can on airlines.

BR used to say you could book a compartment or coach by buying all the seats, but it's not something I've seen in that form recently.

TheAlbanach_ said:
Are there only three luggage racks in the whole train? The seat plan on the site is awful but it looks like there is only 1 per coach, and none in the driving cabs. Think they’re gonna run into problems with that. LNER had to take out seats to add more luggage space.

Also very little between seat backs due to lack of tables. 80x overheads are huge (and in the high floor vehicles* quite easy to reach, too), but I think they will come to regret this.

* I know these are pure EMUs, but other pure EMU 80x also have only the end vehicles as low-floor.

centro-323 · 7 Sep 2021

Bletchleyite said:
Also very little between seat backs due to lack of tables. 80x overheads are huge (and in the high floor vehicles* quite easy to reach, too), but I think they will come to regret this.

I imagine the thinking is that if it proves a big problem, it's not too much trouble to remove a few seats and add luggage racks at a later date.

jon0844 · 7 Sep 2021

mad_rich said:
If I could guarantee it would remain free, I would (at the right price).

But if somebody got on without a reservation and wanted to sit next to me - I can't imagine they would take it well if I said "no, you can't sit there. I paid for it because I'm rich and important"! It would need to be officially sanctioned in some way.

I'd say someone would be well within their rights to sit in an unoccupied seat until the owner of the second ticket returned....

trebor79 said:
The LumoEats thing could be quite innovative. Suggests you will be able to pre-order hot food from M&S and other partners to be delivered to your seat, as well as a traditional trolley service. I've long thought that TOC should try to team up with outfits like Leon to serve tasty meals instead of soggy microwaved bacon rolls etc.

Would it be the same food (as in picked from M&S' distribution warehouse) or more likely just taking the same mass-produced food from Rail Gourmet but licensing the use of their logo?

I have a feeling that these days, it's about having the brand to add credibility without necessarily giving the added 'quality'. But I may be wrong.

Darandio · 7 Sep 2021

jon0844 said:
Would it be the same food (as in picked from M&S' distribution warehouse) or more likely just taking the same mass-produced food from Rail Gourmet but licensing the use of their logo?

The cynic in me thinks that the Customer Experience Ambassadors are given a list of orders before each journey and go around doing a bit of shopping. I bet initially it's not that far from the truth.

TT-ONR-NRN · 7 Sep 2021

While a lot of it seems a little woke and cringe-worthy, I find some parts clever and amusing.

“Our passengers are not prisoners” in reference to guards - sorry, ambassadors - is quite clever. It reassures customers that not all guards are cruel tyrants who want to punish and fine you by taking a laugh at their own expense (considering how strong many of First Group and rival LNERs guard and revenue staff can come across usually)

Honestly, if Lumo staff are as friendly and humble as they say, perhaps I shall give them my business. I’ve encountered one too many arrogant train managers and RPIs on LNER and Avanti.

capitalconnect · 7 Sep 2021

Good to see that their website is finally up and running.

There is still no mention on their website of whether you can buy tickets onboard the train. I hope their onboard staff will have ticket machines to sell tickets. Will it work like First Hull Trains and Grand Central where you could ask to be let through the barriers and buy onboard at no extra cost? Or will they operate a buy before you board policy and charge extra to buy onboard?

Like many of our TOCs nowadays their website does not publish their email address and requires you to submit a complicating web form that asks you to enter far more information than is necessary and has a character limit or you can contact them by phone.

However i did luckily find their new email address here:

[email protected]

It is a shame they do not publish it on their website as it would be a lot more helpful for passengers to have a simple email address rather than these complicating contact forms that all companies seem to like to use these days.

Also is there a seating plan available yet? I would be interested in seeing the layout of the train as i believe there is no buffet so there should be more seats than the LNER ones? I notice their website says that most seats (but it seems not all of the seats) in Coach A are going to be unreserved. Also they are not offering seat reservations between Morpeth and Newcastle or vice versa.

In regards to their catering does anyone have any more information regarding this? Is it a simple basic trolley offering or is there any hot food as well? I know there is no buffet but wondering if there is any kitchen or food preparation area onboard the trains? I on notice their website it says that you can pre order food at least six hours in advance and that it will come from a range of suppliers including Marks & Spencer and others so i am wondering how this will work?

Darandio · 7 Sep 2021

capitalconnect said:
Also is there a seating plan available yet?

There is on this page. https://www.lumo.co.uk/who-we-are/reimagining-rail/our-fleet

But it's pretty useless at the moment, I did tell them in Twitter that it was pretty inaccessible in it's current form.

In terms of your other questions about catering nobody really knows as yet.

Watershed · 7 Sep 2021

capitalconnect said:
There is still no mention on their website of whether you can buy tickets onboard the train. I hope their onboard staff will have ticket machines to sell tickets. Will it work like First Hull Trains and Grand Central where you could ask to be let through the barriers and buy onboard at no extra cost? Or will they operate a buy before you board policy and charge extra to buy onboard?

See my post above.

Although they say they only accept cash, so I wonder what they intend to do if someone has cash but no card...

CreamNCookies · 7 Sep 2021

capitalconnect said:
There is still no mention on their website of whether you can buy tickets onboard the train. I hope their onboard staff will have ticket machines to sell tickets. Will it work like First Hull Trains and Grand Central where you could ask to be let through the barriers and buy onboard at no extra cost? Or will they operate a buy before you board policy and charge extra to buy onboard?

I think you should be able to buy tickets onboard, the following if from their passenger charter page;

"If you forgot to pre-book your ticket, you can still buy one onboard without penalty. When travelling from a station with ticket gates, you can ask the gateline colleague to let you through. When they pass through the train our Customer Experience Ambassadors will sell you the most appropriate ticket for your journey, to offer you the best value and/or flexibility according to your needs, including most Railcard discounts. We will sell you a ticket for your entire journey, whether you are travelling solely on our trains or using other train services as part of your trip. We do not, however, sell Advance tickets on board. If you are unable to purchase a ticket on our train, please go to the excess fare/ticket office at your destination station or approach a member of the gateline team and ask them where you can purchase a ticket."

404 - Page Not Found | Lumo

Uh-oh! You've stumbled across a broken link or you've typed the URL incorrectly. Use our main menu to get back on track.

www.lumo.co.uk

I have a friend who went for an interview/assessment day and they asked if there were ticket selling duties, they were told there would be.

EDIT- Seems i'm just repeating information. My bad.

capitalconnect · 7 Sep 2021

Darandio said:
There is on this page. https://www.lumo.co.uk/who-we-are/reimagining-rail/our-fleet

But it's pretty useless at the moment, I did tell them in Twitter that it was pretty inaccessible in it's current form.

In terms of your other questions about catering nobody really knows as yet.

Thank you. That is certainly a very bad quality image. Hopefully they will upload a new better one soon. From looking at that it seems they are trying to squeeze in as many seats as possible. There appears to be a very small amount of tables with only two per carriage.

Watershed said:
See my post above.

Although they say they only accept cash, so I wonder what they intend to do if someone has cash but no card...

Thank you. Sorry i missed that post. That is good to hear. Just to clarify they will only accept cash or they will only accept card? Sorry i just was not sure by your post which one you meant? I can not find anything on their website to confirm?

CreamNCookies said:
I think you should be able to buy tickets onboard, the following if from their passenger charter page;

"If you forgot to pre-book your ticket, you can still buy one onboard without penalty. When travelling from a station with ticket gates, you can ask the gateline colleague to let you through. When they pass through the train our Customer Experience Ambassadors will sell you the most appropriate ticket for your journey, to offer you the best value and/or flexibility according to your needs, including most Railcard discounts. We will sell you a ticket for your entire journey, whether you are travelling solely on our trains or using other train services as part of your trip. We do not, however, sell Advance tickets on board. If you are unable to purchase a ticket on our train, please go to the excess fare/ticket office at your destination station or approach a member of the gateline team and ask them where you can purchase a ticket."

404 - Page Not Found | Lumo

Uh-oh! You've stumbled across a broken link or you've typed the URL incorrectly. Use our main menu to get back on track.

www.lumo.co.uk

I have a friend who went for an interview/assessment day and they asked if there were ticket selling duties, they were told there would be.

EDIT- Seems i'm just repeating information. My bad.

Thank you. Good to hear that you can buy onboard. It seems they are copying First Hull Trains and Grand Central with this policy. Any word yet on which ticket machines and stock they will use? Will their onboard machines print normal card sized tickets or the huge receipt roll type? Hopefully they use the normal card sized ones as otherwise i think that they will be unable to do any Travelcard and Cross London tickets?

Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

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