The season this year is likely to extend into late October, in line with how full the accommodation in most resorts is. If the open top service is the only thing making money (or the only thing a company runs), who is going to define it as unnecessary?
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Bus Driver Shortages
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cnjb8
Established Member
Since July if I can remember properly, going on still I think
jamesst
Member
Stagecoach seems to be having daily cancellations across Merseyside at the moment.
Kichbus website still shows reduced timetables on most routes.
Transdev actually did the opposite in some areas. From September they reinstated the late night buses that hadn’t run since before Covid, and in Halifax they closed the school time gaps on the local services, both increasing the number of drivers required. In the case of the latter the Halifax locals now have gaps all day rather than just at school times
Robertj21a
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There's, something wrong there.
Bus Times confirms that approximately 30 of the fleet have been out every day.
What is your source ?
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cnjb8
Established Member
I’m sorry but I’m not all clear on the situation as it might have improved. And Kinch weren’t exactly clear if their Skylink Derby service was running. Initially it was their fleet of 5 Citaros interworking the 2 and 9, with 2 minibuses working the 5.
Robertj21a
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Sorry, that's quite incorrect. All of their services have been operating without any serious issues.
Kremlin Stooge
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I wonder if we are also facing a delayed consequence stemming from the original March 2020 lockdown. Most of the large groups, as well as many medium-size and smaller operators, had well-established recruitment and training processes in order to bring new staff into the workforce just to replace the natural turnover of people. This ground to a sudden halt and will take some time to get re-established.
Personally I’m not so sure about a perceived migration to truck-driving; I remember several times being sat at my city centre departure point, in the pouring rain, watching a dray delivering to a city centre bar and thinking “There’s a lot to be said for a load that gets on and off by itself!”.
Personally I’m not so sure about a perceived migration to truck-driving; I remember several times being sat at my city centre departure point, in the pouring rain, watching a dray delivering to a city centre bar and thinking “There’s a lot to be said for a load that gets on and off by itself!”.
Goldfish62
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I'm also not convinced. In the past a lot of HGV drivers have moved over to bus driving, citing unsocial hours (worse than bus driving) and loneliness. Those things have not changed.
Eyersey468
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That makes 3 of us. I know some people who have gone from bus to HGV but I know more who have gone from HGV to bus.
cnjb8
Established Member
Erm, ok. But they initially had a major driver shortage that meant they could only use a small portion of their fleet
I wonder if there will be a boom period for bus drivers in about 2 years as many of those who have allegedly moved over to HGV driving find despite the higher wages they don’t actually like it
anthony263
Established Member
I feel for controllers. I nearly threw the office phone because I'm expected to do the impossible.
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Geordie driver
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Bus driving is effectively a retail job where you are also expected to drive a bus and the only way to keep drivers is to reward them appropriately. Other countries with similar economiess to our seem to manage it.
Most of the people I know who left didn't go to HGV, many went to retail, the NHS or office jobs, all with similar or better pay and invariably better conditions. They are well aware of the "cut every corner" ethos that is rampant in the industry and how this has affected them during the current Covid crisis.
When you step away from the industry and see how decent employers treat their staff, it makes it difficult to return. I could be back in a week for 15 quid an hour and decent conditions.
But ten quid an hour and shifts that would turn a robot into a Marxist?
From the comment in this months Buses magazine:
It's like they have stumbled across some long-hidden secret that no one could possibly have known, not how a normal business is run.
One more thing regarding HGV, if everyone and his dog goes on the wagons, they will soon go back to lower wages, and I think we can take these £40 an hour stories in the press with a pinch of salt.
Most of the people I know who left didn't go to HGV, many went to retail, the NHS or office jobs, all with similar or better pay and invariably better conditions. They are well aware of the "cut every corner" ethos that is rampant in the industry and how this has affected them during the current Covid crisis.
When you step away from the industry and see how decent employers treat their staff, it makes it difficult to return. I could be back in a week for 15 quid an hour and decent conditions.
But ten quid an hour and shifts that would turn a robot into a Marxist?
From the comment in this months Buses magazine:
It's like they have stumbled across some long-hidden secret that no one could possibly have known, not how a normal business is run.
One more thing regarding HGV, if everyone and his dog goes on the wagons, they will soon go back to lower wages, and I think we can take these £40 an hour stories in the press with a pinch of salt.
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darloscott
Member
Over in the coach business we are already starting to see wages increase as companies fight desperately for staff. The problem for most people is there are not often full-time positions available, hence why the bigger bus companies tend to do well for staff despite often poor conditions. I am sure it is only a matter of time before this changes though, but as the cost of staffing goes up, so does your cost of operation so will we see fares increase or will the more marginal routes be cut as they become uneconomical?
Eyersey468
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I suspect both.
Saw this thread on Twitter from a HGV driver earlier on, and got me thinking about your comment.
I’ll say I’m not a bus or truck driver so not in a place to compare, but sounds like quite an intense time for truck drivers.
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I can't see that happening at all. I can't see any bus companies having a long term surfeit of staff - if they've put them on furlough and kept them there, they're going to need them soon.
Goldfish62
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I've been a bus driver. I wouldn't even consider HGV driving. It's a serious load of hassle.
Robertj21a
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Probably depends on the nature of the job that you apply for. Multi-drop to Supermarkets is very different to carrying stone from a quarry.
I left Lothian to do HGV work with an agency. Didn't particularly enjoy it as there is an attitude of 'we're paying you big bucks so we own you'. Didn't fancy grovelling at Lothian so I've signed up with First as they're offering part-time, which I think is almost revolutionary in the bus game. Lothian wouldn't entertain me working part-time which was the reason I left.
Will see how that pans out...
Will see how that pans out...
Goldfish62
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Hope it goes well.
Part-time for those who want it is the way forward.
Some London operators have been offering it for years, but there's still far too much inflexibility in the industry. A lot of operators are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century if they want to survive.
Geordie driver
Member
Checking your vehicle, using a tacho, keeping it legal and delivering goods are what HGV driving is all about. It soon becomes second nature.
On the plus side, he is getting a break after 4 and a half hours, a luxury many bus drivers can only dream of.
It boils down to what sort of renumeration he is getting, I know some HGV 1 drivers are only on a tenner an hour. I would want way more than that; hopefully with the current market things will improve.
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Robertj21a
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Retail jobs are not exactly high paying either. Other similar economies do it by getting the taxpayer to top the bus company wage bill with subsidies. No two ways about it. Here the bus industry, management and staff, have not treated passengers well, for a variety of reasons, since the dark days of the second world war and the prevailing view is that buses are to be avoided and therefore not worth subsidising to any extent.
We've gone through staff shortage in the 60s & 70s with exactly the same being said - the solution wasn't higher wages and better conditions then either.
Obviously can't discuss politics but there are a few gone on 3 day part-time both on SD and DD, and not all are long serving staff.
Unstoppable
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I work for a large company in the Central Belt of Scotland which runs both local domestic services and a large quantity of intercity coach services around the UK. I have spoken to staff with 20+ years service and they have said this is the worst state the depot has ever been in. We have many drivers currently leaving our place to go to another company which does the same work. This is due to this depot's maintenance, which is abysmal.
The pay and conditions aren't where they should be especially for long-haul overnight shifts being paid at basic rate. The contracted hours were dropped to 35 but are now reinstated back to a minimum of 39 due to growing concerns. Various depots for this company have all voted for strike action. The company is stating we will not get what we want despite having a pay freeze during the pandemic. The morale is at an all-time low. For the responsibility bus and coach drivers have and the additional licenses required (once upon a time), such as a trailer (D+E), it is very poor to think we aren't thought highly of by our own company.
I heard a rumour which was for every 3 that leave we are only managing to recruit 1. My opinion at the moment is it may even be lower than this as most qualified drivers who have started here have disappeared within 3 weeks maximum. The work and different vehicles we do is without a doubt the best in the UK, but the company seriously needs to wake up and accept profits won't be as high to help retain staff.
The pay and conditions aren't where they should be especially for long-haul overnight shifts being paid at basic rate. The contracted hours were dropped to 35 but are now reinstated back to a minimum of 39 due to growing concerns. Various depots for this company have all voted for strike action. The company is stating we will not get what we want despite having a pay freeze during the pandemic. The morale is at an all-time low. For the responsibility bus and coach drivers have and the additional licenses required (once upon a time), such as a trailer (D+E), it is very poor to think we aren't thought highly of by our own company.
I heard a rumour which was for every 3 that leave we are only managing to recruit 1. My opinion at the moment is it may even be lower than this as most qualified drivers who have started here have disappeared within 3 weeks maximum. The work and different vehicles we do is without a doubt the best in the UK, but the company seriously needs to wake up and accept profits won't be as high to help retain staff.
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delt1c
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It seems like Covid is being used as an excuse, where Brexit is the major cause.
Robertj21a
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Is it, I thought others had confirmed that the loss of some European drivers represented only a small % of the total shortage?
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