Goldfish62
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I can guess which company you're referring to. It's been losing its way for a while.
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Bus Driver Shortages
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Robertj21a
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Isn't there only one that fits the bill ?
West Midlands is terrible; the buses leave the depots but when they are due to do a driver swap, nobody turns up to take over their shift. This results in buses lined up in the Street or bus station. National Express West Midlands doesn’t even tell people there are delays because of a lack of staff - there is nothing on their website. There has been a number of complaints on Twitter & Facebook from people, some of them who have been waiting over 2 hours for a bus.
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Hope it works out for you mate. I also left Lothian recently due to their unwillingness to entertain the idea of me going part time. I have an interview with First tomorrow for a part time position. I find it incredible that given the current circumstances with driver shortages at every company, some operators would rather people leave completely than to allow them to work reduced hours. Hopefully if nothing else this forces the industry to look at being more flexible in terms of what hours they allow people to do. I’m sure there are many people put off by the ‘5 over 7’ rotas that the big operators seem obsessed with.
It would be wonderful to be able to agree, however the problems at Swansea that have delayed licenses are Covid related, the loss of driving tests for most of last year is Covid related, drivers being unable to come in because of the need to isolate is Covid related. Brexit has caused a loss of truck drivers (and a smaller loss of bus drivers) however even there a lot of it was because they returned home because of Covid and are now prevented from returning (even if they wanted to) by the new rules.
*citation needed*
Geordie driver
Member
That's the point i was making.
I must have imagined clearing £200 a week in the 1980s when I started, put that though the bank of England inflation calculator that would be £600. In a 200 driver depot there were 3 new starters that year, I was one of them. They need 3 a week now.
Decent shifts, paid clock to clock ; managers who weren't out of their depth bullies.
Must have. Staff shortage in the 1980s was solved by a deep depression causing large scale unemployment. I too worked in the North-East bus industry during that period - people were not leaving because there were no jobs to go to. Subsides were rising; de-regulation was introduced to sort that out.
Now subsidies will not be allowed to rise - higher wage bill for the same productivity will mean less or no buses. (not that I think there is much scope for productivity gain now per se, apart from passengers conveyed per driver hour paid)
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Hopefully it's the beginning of changing attitudes. I remember being told by a staff manager that it was easier to recruit new staff than to accommodate someone's request to go P/T, although this was pre-covid and a ready supply of willing candidates to fill that space. The final straw was being told at Central by another traffic that getting P/T was not an option and I just had to man-up in regards to my mental health issues. I would probably entertain returning if I could get P/T, but who knows?
Sorry if that is too much politics, don't mean to drag you into it, but I'm the other side of the fence now.
Cheers and good luck with the interview! I do hope there is a shift in attitudes in the industry, as I actually enjoy the job mostly, but it needs to show more respect to those of us willing to do it.
Geordie driver
Member
You must be the last person in the country to believe that, how touching.
Profits were privatised, loses were nationalized, it was a lose/ lose scenario for all but a very few who made millions.
Fares here are 6 times what they were in 1985 in monetary terms and double in real terms once you take inflation into account.
I think that rising subsidies up to de-regulation and their subsequent reduction is a matter of record. The losses were already nationalised, and there were precious little profits anywhere to be privatised. It most certainly wasn't a lose / lose scenario for all - it mattered little to the large, and ever increasing, number of people who had already deserted buses, and no doubt pushed some more to make the same move, which they would not be tempted back from now.
The regulated system had long been failing the bus industry and its future. Sure privatisation and de-regulation were also about reducing Government involvement in the economy, at a time when this was the Government policy at the time in most sectors. Yes some people made millions, but when you look at who they were it was mostly canny industry managers who happened to be in the right place at the right time. At employee buy out companies lots of staff did quite well when they sold out very quickly. The moves that made the big money - consolidating Depots, moving to out-of-town sites etc could have been done by the nationalised companies, but with subsidies and TU power there was no incentive. As to the profits from actually running buses it is pretty clear where they came from over the previous regime - reduced costs (admin overheads and drivers pay and conditions), getting out of uneconomic mileage much of which was not replaced and (less so) changed/new services that would have been difficult in the regulated environment.
I suspect that your fares being double in real terms is the joint effect of reduction in subsidy, increased costs more than inflation for a variety of reasons, reduced productivity [fewer passengers per trip] and the effect of the ENCTS re-imbursement rules.
However, none of this makes any difference to the bus driver shortages now. Increasing the wage bill (whether through money or terms and conditions or both) will result in fewer buses running, as subsidies are unlikely to be increased, or passengers paying higher fares. Which is the same effect as running fewer buses because there is insufficient staff to recruit at current wages, but just more expensive!
Is this in the right thread?
Kremlin Stooge
Member
During my driving career the biggest drain on my productivity was undoubtedly traffic congestion, easily accounting for 85 to 90% of my lost mileage. Huge gains to be had for the industry if that particular political nettle is grasped properly.
Not doubting you, but this is an unlikely scenario. It is a political nettle, but buses just don't have a good enough image that people actually want to ride in them and be prepared to accept curbs on their motoring freedom. Not in my neck of the woods anyway.
j_walker1804
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I’m at a loss! (As I’m sure most non local members of the forum are!)
TravelDream
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I've never driven buses myself, but I do have a relative who worked for many years on the buses. Both service buses and a local coach operator doing everything from school runs to trips to Spain.
I think there are just so many more options in the current job market and the pay and conditions for bus drivers just doesn't stack up.
This family member was put on partial furlough for quite some time. I am not quite sure how partial furlough works, but he essentially went part-time still doing school runs and a little service work with part of his wages covered by furlough.
Eventually he got sick of it and now works for one of the big supermarkets as a home delivery driver. He reckons the work is a lot less stressful, he's treated better and the salary is slightly higher. He knows several others who have gone that way too.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that in an employee's market, people are going to gravitate to higher paid/ more enjoyable jobs.
I think there are just so many more options in the current job market and the pay and conditions for bus drivers just doesn't stack up.
This family member was put on partial furlough for quite some time. I am not quite sure how partial furlough works, but he essentially went part-time still doing school runs and a little service work with part of his wages covered by furlough.
Eventually he got sick of it and now works for one of the big supermarkets as a home delivery driver. He reckons the work is a lot less stressful, he's treated better and the salary is slightly higher. He knows several others who have gone that way too.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that in an employee's market, people are going to gravitate to higher paid/ more enjoyable jobs.
Which company would that be then as I don't know of any company in the Central Belt that does local services and long-distance work?
anthony263
Established Member
I'm working overtime today covering the 404 pontypridd to porthcawl service. Long day 0640-1920 but I getting g on with it.
Theres tension in the bus industry now between staff directly employed by companies and agency staff
Theres tension in the bus industry now between staff directly employed by companies and agency staff
First could certainly cancel the open-top Exeter tour as I've only ever seen one passenger on it. However they have few other services in Devon - either tourist type services or college contracts, plus a couple of routes based over the border in Taunton.
Only at companies who's pay and conditions aren't sufficient to attract staff. Especially Adventure Travel whose staff are leaving to do agency work at the same company for another £7 an hour plus expenses.
I suppose they don't need uniform
TravelDream
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An extra £7 an hour!? Really?
From the salaries I have seen, NAT are paying about £9.50 an hour with very mediocre benefits so that's an substantial increase.
I'm not surprised there is tension between the two groups and I'm actually surprised everyone hasn't jumped ship.
The First depot that operates that open top service has adequate staffing so not really relevant to cancel that service for a shortage elsewhere in the country!
I know of three personally that have done it. Cardiff depot is £10/h and they're doing agency work for £17 - some are also working for the same agency at Cardiff Bus for the same rate.
Goldfish62
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If you work through an agency you can be without work with a week's notice and due to IR35 your tax and other deductions are much higher. So it's not quite as straightforward as £7ph more.
TravelDream
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IR35 is a complete nightmare for many. It's one of the reasons so few foreign lorry drivers are willing to work in the UK when they get the double whammy NI which they don't on the continent Oh, and wages here are no higher than Germany meaning take-home here is lower.
But to the layman driver, they just see the headline figure. I earn £10 and someone else earns £17 for the same job which allows resentment to reign.
Was having this discussion a few days back. Company A paying 20p an hour more but unpaid breaks. Company B paid breaks, enhanced overtime and better sick rates.
Geordie driver
Member
Oddly enough I know someone ( not me , honest) doing 4 schools a day for £17 an hour, it's a local taxi firm that has taken on some school bus work.
It's self employed, no holiday pay, no sick pay or pension contribution, sort out your own national insurance.
Only 4 hours driving a day and less than 3 of them in service, it suits him and he has his pension to fall back on if he gets sick of it.
£340 a week, every weekend off,, no late work and every school holiday off, admittedly, unpaid.
It's self employed, no holiday pay, no sick pay or pension contribution, sort out your own national insurance.
Only 4 hours driving a day and less than 3 of them in service, it suits him and he has his pension to fall back on if he gets sick of it.
£340 a week, every weekend off,, no late work and every school holiday off, admittedly, unpaid.
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Take First Scotland East at Deans, drivers on £11.10/h can work at Lothian Country (quite literally across the road) for £12.08 (as of October 3rd, currently £11.78) with better conditions, shifts etc.
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