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Why aren't delayed Northampton trains held at Birmingham International to let CrossCountry overtake?

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Gagravarr

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I'm currently on the 15:14 Cross Country service 1O20 from Birmingham International heading south. As seems to be normal for when I'm taking one of these, it's running late, as the Northampton train before it was very late.

The train before is the 1W90, 1453 Birmingham New Street - Northampton. It's due at Birmingham International at 15:03, but was 10 minutes late today. The Cross Country is due at 15:14. The Northampton train was Platform 5, CrossCountry platform 4.

The Northampton train went first, then (as scheduled) stopped 4 times on the way to Coventry. The CrossCountry train was stuck behind it so crawled along, arriving 13 minutes late into Coventry.

When the Northampton service is that late, it'd seem logical to me to hold it an extra minute and let the CrossCountry get ahead to have a clear run and be on time, especially as it has a single track section between Coventry and Leamington to navigate. With the Northampton train in platform 5 and CrossCountry in platform 4, it ought to be easy....

As I've never known that to happen, no matter how late the stopper is, I'm guessing there's some good reason why. Does anyone know?
 
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Starmill

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The Northampton service was delayed by the 1439 Birmingham New Street > Birmingham International. That delay was due to being late inbound with 1417 Birmingham International > Birmingham New Street.
 

Wolfie

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I'm currently on the 15:14 Cross Country service 1O20 from Birmingham International heading south. As seems to be normal for when I'm taking one of these, it's running late, as the Northampton train before it was very late.

The train before is the 1W90, 1453 Birmingham New Street - Northampton. It's due at Birmingham International at 15:03, but was 10 minutes late today. The Cross Country is due at 15:14. The Northampton train was Platform 5, CrossCountry platform 4.

The Northampton train went first, then (as scheduled) stopped 4 times on the way to Coventry. The CrossCountry train was stuck behind it so crawled along, arriving 13 minutes late into Coventry.

When the Northampton service is that late, it'd seem logical to me to hold it an extra minute and let the CrossCountry get ahead to have a clear run and be on time, especially as it has a single track section between Coventry and Leamington to navigate. With the Northampton train in platform 5 and CrossCountry in platform 4, it ought to be easy....

As I've never known that to happen, no matter how late the stopper is, I'm guessing there's some good reason why. Does anyone know?
If l was to speculate l'd say that further delaying the LNWR service causes issues elsewhere (perhaps Rugby?).
 

The Planner

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If l was to speculate l'd say that further delaying the LNWR service causes issues elsewhere (perhaps Rugby?).
It is out of the way at Rugby and has a decent turnaround at Northampton to form its next working. They possibly gambled on 1W90 not losing anymore time and that 9M54 was already slightly late.
 

Wolfie

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It is out of the way at Rugby and has a decent turnaround at Northampton to form its next working. They possibly gambled on 1W90 not losing anymore time and that 9M54 was already slightly late.
TY
 

Starmill

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It is out of the way at Rugby and has a decent turnaround at Northampton to form its next working. They possibly gambled on 1W90 not losing anymore time and that 9M54 was already slightly late.
Or perhaps it is just in line with the outdated regulation policy from when it's a London service?
 

Oxfordblues

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Almost every xx.04 Cross-Country southbound from New Street is delayed approaching Coventry following a stopping EMU, usually by only 1 or 2 minutes. If I had any influence with Cross-Country I'd stick 2 minutes in a circle as pathing allowance and reduce the turn-round time at Reading by 2 minutes. But of course I don't!
 

Class 170101

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Almost every xx.04 Cross-Country southbound from New Street is delayed approaching Coventry following a stopping EMU, usually by only 1 or 2 minutes. If I had any influence with Cross-Country I'd stick 2 minutes in a circle as pathing allowance and reduce the turn-round time at Reading by 2 minutes. But of course I don't!

Probably doesn't work at it could clash with other services at various junctions from Coventry to Reading / Bournemouth, including the single line between Coventry and Leamington.
 

BanburyBlue

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Must admit this gets my goat as well. Also get it heading north from Coventry. Can never work out as you crawl from Coventry to New Street that they don’t hold the stopping EMU at International.
 

Jimini

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Thank you! Does my swede in as well. You can almost guarantee it’ll push the XC service back by a couple of minutes at least, each and every time.
 

Ianno87

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Must admit this gets my goat as well. Also get it heading north from Coventry. Can never work out as you crawl from Coventry to New Street that they don’t hold the stopping EMU at International.

Because right behind the xx04 XC is the xx10 Avanti. So what do you do once the XC has gone past?

Do you send the stopper out and hammer the Avanti, or due to hold the stopper even longer?

Keeping the stopper in front of the XC causes the least "damage" overall, especially with the acceleration performance of the 350s from the intermediate stops.
 

Omnishambles

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Stour Valley north and south of New Street has always been a pig for regulating. As stated by Ianno87 above, damned if you do damned if you don’t.
 

MarkWi72

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Stour Valley lines from Brum - Wolves seems busier now than even in BR days (in the 80s). It was bad then from memory and hasn't let up. Less freight along there now than before, but still congested.
 

Ianno87

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Stour Valley lines from Brum - Wolves seems busier now than even in BR days (in the 80s). It was bad then from memory and hasn't let up. Less freight along there now than before, but still congested.

The Coventry corridor is a textbook example of timetabling to get alot of capacity out if a two track railway.
 

TUC

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I do remember overhearing a striking comment at Leeds between two TPE staff awaiting a late running train to Selby and Hull, such that it was at risk of having to go to Selby stuck behind the Northern stopper. One said to the other 'we could ask Signals to let ours out first, but then they'd probably let Northern go first out of perverseness'.

How common in reality is that an issue?
 

MarkWi72

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The Coventry corridor is a textbook example of timetabling to get alot of capacity out if a two track railway.
Is this partly because of Cross country leaving for Cov-Leam line? How do they manage it?
 

Spartacus

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I do remember overhearing a striking comment at Leeds between two TPE staff awaiting a late running train to Selby and Hull, such that it was at risk of having to go to Selby stuck behind the Northern stopper. One said to the other 'we could ask Signals to let ours out first, but then they'd probably let Northern go first out of perverseness'.

How common in reality is that an issue?
Railway employees being sarcastic to each other? Railway runs on it. That, and tea.
 

Jimini

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The pesky Northampton trains seem to have disappeared this week -- I'm assuming due to the timetable changes. Happy days.
 

SargeNpton

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Wasn't there a case years back of a southbound early morning West Midlands-Euston train timetabled to wait for several minutes at Birmingham International to allow the passage of a Q-pathed Eurostar service - which never ever ran?
 
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