Locked in at Blackburn Station

scrapy · 9 Nov 2021

Hadders said:
I'm sure this incident will have been a c**k up rather than anything more sinister. If I'd have been trapped I'd have:

1. Used a help point (if there was one); if not
2. Dialled 999 and requested assistance from the police and/or fire brigade
3. Attempted to have broken out of the station. A fire extinguisher is a good way of breaking the glass in a door or window

I certainly wouldn't have dialed 999. 101 would be much more appropriate, whilst extremely inconvenient it doesn't require an immediate police response and the OP was perfectly safe. I recently had to dial 999 for something that required an immediate police response and it was very frustrating that it took 6 minutes to answer because all the operators were busy. I would hate to think this was because of people making non emergency calls. Again setting a fire alarm off as suggested elsewhere could potentially divert the fire service from a life saving call out.

I would try other options before contacting emergency services. Looking on noticeboards for an emergency number, googling an emergency number (if you Google 'railway emergency number' you get a number for network rail) or phoning national rail enquiries.

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Deafdoggie · 9 Nov 2021

Busaholic said:
I'll admit to having a fancy for three out of those four categories.

Yeah, I'm not much for Polish trams either.

westcoaster · 9 Nov 2021

one thing I have not seen mentioned so far,

who locked up the arriving train.
who dispatched that train.

Seen this reported many a time, one in South London where a contractor locks up and didn't know the last train was considerably late.

The local stations to me are opened and closed by station staff ( If the last train is late, they do not wait ever and will leave 1 gate open), the issue comes if no morning staff are on duty to unlock the station.

Haywain · 9 Nov 2021

westcoaster said:
one thing I have not seen mentioned so far,

who locked up the arriving train.
who dispatched that train.

The driver drove it to the depot, almost certainly self dispatched. With only 4 passengers on board it would have taken seconds for the guard to confirm that the train was empty.

scrapy · 9 Nov 2021

westcoaster said:
one thing I have not seen mentioned so far,

who locked up the arriving train.
who dispatched that train.

Seen this reported many a time, one in South London where a contractor locks up and didn't know the last train was considerably late.

The local stations to me are opened and closed by station staff ( If the last train is late, they do not wait ever and will leave 1 gate open), the issue comes if no morning staff are on duty to unlock the station.

By the sounds of things the guard locked up the train before it went empty stock (with just the driver on to the depot). The guard was then in the same position as the passengers. There are no dispatchers at Blackburn.

jrh2254 · 9 Nov 2021

Reminds me of what happened to me several years ago. My train pulled into London Marylebone and everyone got off apart from myself. I sat in my carriage with wifi/power point/laptop working away for 20 minutes as I had a lot of spare time in London before my first meeting.
I then noticed the train move and leave the station!
I rushed through to the end of the train where I thought the train driver was, knocked on his door and he was astonished to see me ! He said he was taking the train to the depot and there was no way back! So we went to the depot and he parked up. He had no way of opening the doors of the train so I had to exit via the drivers cab. I then caught the next train back to Marylebone. Took less than an hour and I proceeded to my meeting on time!
Never crossed my mind about false imprisonment :rolleyes:

- not sure what all this is aboutin this thread :lol:

30907 · 9 Nov 2021

Haywain said:
The driver drove it to the depot, almost certainly self dispatched. With only 4 passengers on board it would have taken seconds for the guard to confirm that the train was empty.

It was in the platform for 4 1/2 min according to RTT, not long enough for a passenger to have checked both exits and quick-wittedly decided to sprint back up to the platform.

DarloRich · 9 Nov 2021

WOW - Someone, somewhere, has clearly dropped a massive rowlock here!

Cloud Strife · 9 Nov 2021

Mcr Warrior said:
Main platforms at Blackburn are on an island platform with the surrounding railway lines a storey or so (fifteen feet?) up above street level.

And yes, fences/brick walls immediately adjacent.

Thanks! It's not obvious at all from the pictures that this is the case - it looks like you can just leave from the end of the platforms.

In this case, I think I'd just have broken the nearest fire alarm.

joke2711 · 9 Nov 2021

Cloud Strife said:
Thanks! It's not obvious at all from the pictures that this is the case - it looks like you can just leave from the end of the platforms.

In this case, I think I'd just have broken the nearest fire alarm.

The important thing to remember in all of this is that we had an employee of the Railway with us. Whilst there are many different options that we could have taken, some slightly more dangerous than others .. at the time we respected her authority and guidance on the matter.

Neptune · 9 Nov 2021

joke2711 said:
The important thing to remember in all of this is that we had an employee of the Railway with us. Whilst there are many different options that we could have taken, some slightly more dangerous than others .. at the time we respected her authority and guidance on the matter.

You 100% did the right thing to trust the member of staff in a difficult, and rare, situation who still had to travel back to her depot at Blackpool then home afterwards (I suspect she was last to make it home on the night).

It amazes me how many ‘hard cases’ there are on line claiming they’d break doors or gates down, leap fences or walk the track. In the same situation I suspect they’d do exactly as yourself and calmly trust in the staff as most adults would do in an annoying but non emergency situation.

The on-call keyholder had to come from Blackpool, hence the delay in being released.

Deafdoggie · 9 Nov 2021

Neptune said:
You 100% did the right thing to trust the member of staff in a difficult, and rare, situation who still had to travel back to her depot at Blackpool then home afterwards (I suspect she was last to make it home on the night).

The on-call keyholder had to come from Blackpool, hence the delay in being released.

On the plus side, they could give the guard a lift home!

Neptune · 9 Nov 2021

Deafdoggie said:
On the plus side, they could give the guard a lift home!

They did

WesternLancer · 9 Nov 2021

Neptune said:
The on-call keyholder had to come from Blackpool, hence the delay in being released.

wasn't barrier line staff from Blackpool North was it....no wonder the gate line was locked... :lol:

Gloster · 9 Nov 2021

What happened to the guard’s original transport? Was she supposed to share a taxi to Blackpool with the driver and did that leave with just him? Or did she have separate transport that didn’t wait?

joke2711 · 9 Nov 2021

Gloster said:
What happened to the guard’s original transport? Was she supposed to share a taxi to Blackpool with the driver and did that leave with just him? Or did she have separate transport that didn’t wait?

The Train Driver (Blackpool Depot) had a taxi booked from wherever he parked his train.
The Guard had a taxi booked from the front entrance of the station. This taxi arrived around 1230am and after 15 minutes he gave up and went back empty.

najaB · 9 Nov 2021

joke2711 said:
The Train Driver (Blackpool Depot) had a taxi booked from wherever he parked his train.

Pretty sure that would be King Street depot.

Gloster · 9 Nov 2021

Although it is irrelevant to the main subject of this thread, both driver and guard were travelling from Blackburn to Blackpool at around the same time of night, but separate taxis were supplied. Unless the driver had to spend a long period in the carriage sidings shutting everything down, this seems very wasteful.

LowLevel · 9 Nov 2021

Gloster said:
Although it is irrelevant to the main subject of this thread, both driver and guard were travelling from Blackburn to Blackpool at around the same time of night, but separate taxis were supplied. Unless the driver had to spend a long period in the carriage sidings shutting everything down, this seems very wasteful.

Standard practice to only book one person per car due to COVID measures at the moment. In other cases it depends what is going on - we take trains on to Crewe carriage shed and in normal times sometimes the guard and driver are booked in the same taxi, making a stop at the station and then the shed, and others they're booked separately.

najaB · 9 Nov 2021

Gloster said:
Although it is irrelevant to the main subject of this thread, both driver and guard were travelling from Blackburn to Blackpool at around the same time of night, but separate taxis were supplied. Unless the driver had to spend a long period in the carriage sidings shutting everything down, this seems very wasteful.

Would they both have been travelling back to the depot or could they head home directly? Genuine question, I don't know if they have to go to depot to physically sign out.

joke2711 · 9 Nov 2021

I can't speak for the Driver but the Guard had to go back to her Depot. She obviously had cash on her that would need to be deposited.

3rd rail land · 9 Nov 2021

westcoaster said:
The local stations to me are opened and closed by station staff ( If the last train is late, they do not wait ever and will leave 1 gate open), the issue comes if no morning staff are on duty to unlock the station.

Doers someone come back later on to lock the 1 open exit if station staff leave before the last train?

Haywain said:
The driver drove it to the depot, almost certainly self dispatched. With only 4 passengers on board it would have taken seconds for the guard to confirm that the train was empty.

Surely that isn't self dispatch as the guard would need to confirm that there were no passengers left on the train? It's just that the guard stayed on the platform rather than travel ECS on the train.

joke2711 said:
I can't speak for the Driver but the Guard had to go back to her Depot. She obviously had cash on her that would need to be deposited.

Presumably there are separate depots for traincrew and rolling stock, hence the guard not travelling ECS with the driver?

skyhigh · 9 Nov 2021

3rd rail land said:
Surely that isn't self dispatch as the guard would need to confirm the there were no passengers left on the train? It's just that the guard stayed on the platform rather than travel ECS on the train.

Guard checks train is empty, gets off, driver then self dispatches and off they go.

LowLevel said:
Standard practice to only book one person per car due to COVID measures at the moment. In other cases it depends what is going on - we take trains on to Crewe carriage shed and in normal times sometimes the guard and driver are booked in the same taxi, making a stop at the station and then the shed, and others they're booked separately.

No longer the case at Northern, taxi arrangements are now back to how they were pre-Covid.

Neptune · 9 Nov 2021

3rd rail land said:
Surely that isn't self dispatch as the guard would need to confirm that there were no passengers left on the train? It's just that the guard stayed on the platform rather than travel ECS on the train.

It is self dispatch as it runs DOO to depot.

3rd rail land said:
Presumably there are separate depots for traincrew and rolling stock, hence the guard not travelling ECS with the driver?

The guard doesn’t sign the walking routes in King Street depot hence the taxi from the station. Good job really in hindsight.

skyhigh said:
Guard checks train is empty, gets off, driver then self dispatches and off they go.

No longer the case at Northern, taxi arrangements are now back to how they were pre-Covid.

Currently working to May 2021 diagrams so still separate taxis.

Bevan Price · 9 Nov 2021

skyhigh said:
If you found yourself in the position described in the OP, going for a walk down the track is possibly the worst course of action you could take.

If you did not know the route to the depot, then the shortest walk (just over ½ mile), is to the level crossing near Daisyfield Jn, would involve a long walk through Blackburn Tunnel, something definitely to be avoided. In the opposite direction, you would need to walk about 1¼ miles to the unstaffed Mill Hill (Lancs) station, also undesirable, especially at night. .

Before the pallisade ("prison") fencing was erected, some fit people might have been able to climb the wall on the "cathedral" side of the station.

Lemmy99uk · 9 Nov 2021

Cloud Strife said:
In this case, I think I'd just have broken the nearest fire alarm.

Good luck finding one of those at Blackburn!

robbeech · 9 Nov 2021

Cloud Strife said:
In this case, I think I'd just have broken the nearest fire alarm.

This sounds like a sure way to have to spend the same 2 hours trapped on the premises with a loud annoying fire alarm going at the same time.

matt_world2004 · 10 Nov 2021

221129 said:
For those jumping down my throat, absolutely the station staff should have made arrangements instead of just leaving. But they absolutely have the right to leave at their scheduled time. For all we know, the backshift could have gone sick so the earlier shift agreed to stay on as long as they could. But there comes a point where they legally have to go home regardless of anything else.

Working time law is allowed to be broken temporarily in the case of emergencies or where continuity of service is required. So for example if a train driver went over their hours they would.not just stop a train in the middle of no where they would continue until their trip ended or a place where the train would be debirthed.

westcoaster · 11 Nov 2021

3rd rail land said:
Doers someone come back later on to lock the 1 open exit if station staff leave before the last train?

Surely that isn't self dispatch as the guard would need to confirm that there were no passengers left on the train? It's just that the guard stayed on the platform rather than travel ECS on the train.

Presumably there are separate depots for traincrew and rolling stock, hence the guard not travelling ECS with the driver?

No the station will be left unlocked, there is only a 3 hour gap in service overnight mon-sat (0140-0444).

Jenny · 11 Nov 2021

I find this really bizarre. All our stations are locked up by padlocks that every single employee has access to. And all doors use the same standard key.
Quite often on our very early/very late turns we have to let ourselves into the station.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. As mentioned above, minimum should be a full refund on your tickets for that evening.

Locked in at Blackburn Station

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