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Locked in at Blackburn Station

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joke2711

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I find this really bizarre. All our stations are locked up by padlocks that every single employee has access to. And all doors use the same standard key.
Quite often on our very early/very late turns we have to let ourselves into the station.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. As mentioned above, minimum should be a full refund on your tickets for that evening.

The Guard did say this to us .. something about a 16 lock?? However, the padlock on the gates that exit to the Car Park wasn't the padlock that she was expecting.

In terms of compensation .. I don't know where Northern will go with this. Following the initial calls on Monday I have received an email on Tuesday asking me to send the tickets over to them.

In addition, there was a delivery on Tuesday of some flowers .. which kind of says they are apologetic .. but doesn't really resonate much with me as a flower delivery neither explains what happened nor rectifies the situation that we were put in.

I am sure at some point there will be further communication and I will share this once received.
 
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Jenny

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Never heard of a 16 lock.
Flowers is a nice thought, but an explanation is needed. I hope you get one soon. But it could take a few weeks if they’re investigating.
 

Lemmy99uk

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I find this really bizarre. All our stations are locked up by padlocks that every single employee has access to. And all doors use the same standard key.
Stations do not have a standard door key, that is why there are various locations (e.g. Blackpool) that are designated locations for duplicate keys.

The no.16 padlock is normally used at locations that require 24hr access such as stabling sidings or access to lineside cabinets and other infrastructure. They are not usually provided to access staffed stations as there needs to be some sort of security to prevent all and sundry wandering around at night. If Network Rail or a contractor require out of hours access they normally have to arrange this with the relevant TOC.
 

Jenny

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Probably not phrased correctly. But all our padlocks and gates use 1 of 2 keys which are issued. So that’s what I meant for standard.
 

daveo

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And if they were told that the last one had been cancelled?

Not applicable in this case, however if the last train is late and past their book off time, that's not their problem either. It may shock some on here but people do have lives outside of work.
And passengers have lives outside their journeying schedule!!!!
 

Aaron1

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I can't believe some posters on here think that if the final train is delayed then the staff has every right to leave the station, lock up and just leave any passengers on that train abandoned in the station overnight! It's hardly the passengers fault the train is late.

I appreciate station staff has a life outside of work but so do passengers, they should wait until the final train had come in regardless how late it is and if needed claim overtime or take TOIL.

What if it was a single passenger on the last train and the station staff had just thought "oh **** it" and locked up for the night not caring about the passengers they are locking in, so the train arrived in and the only person on that train alighted, only to find no way out, they start trying to find an alternative route out and start clambering onto the tracks etc and attempting to climb over walls and they trip and seriously injure themselves, if they are not able to call the emergency services themselves, then by the time staff arrive to open up again that person could well be dead.

It is a serious health and safety breach, I said in my opening paragraph I can't believe some people think it's acceptable for station staff to just lock up and go home if the final train is late, but on 2nd thoughts I'm not too shocked as from reading this forum more than I post I have noticed some posters think train companies and staff don't have to follow the national conditions of carriage, and following health and safety regulations is optional, it's almost as so the passengers don't matter.

I like to think this is a genuine error and not a staff member thinking "the final train is delayed, I'll just go home and leave the passengers stranded overnight"
 

185143

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I can't believe some posters on here think that if the final train is delayed then the staff has every right to leave the station, lock up and just leave any passengers on that train abandoned in the station overnight! It's hardly the passengers fault the train is late.

I appreciate station staff has a life outside of work but so do passengers, they should wait until the final train had come in regardless how late it is and if needed claim overtime or take TOIL.

What if it was a single passenger on the last train and the station staff had just thought "oh **** it" and locked up for the night not caring about the passengers they are locking in, so the train arrived in and the only person on that train alighted, only to find no way out, they start trying to find an alternative route out and start clambering onto the tracks etc and attempting to climb over walls and they trip and seriously injure themselves, if they are not able to call the emergency services themselves, then by the time staff arrive to open up again that person could well be dead.

It is a serious health and safety breach, I said in my opening paragraph I can't believe some people think it's acceptable for station staff to just lock up and go home if the final train is late, but on 2nd thoughts I'm not too shocked as from reading this forum more than I post I have noticed some posters think train companies and staff don't have to follow the national conditions of carriage, and following health and safety regulations is optional, it's almost as so the passengers don't matter.

I like to think this is a genuine error and not a staff member thinking "the final train is delayed, I'll just go home and leave the passengers stranded overnight"
I don't think anyone is saying that. Staff just walking off and not telling anyone is unacceptable. There should be a limit as to how late the last train can be before incurring overtime for the staff, afterwards it isn't hugely unreasonable if the last train is very late for the staff to ring control and tell them we're living a side gate open, or to make alternative arrangements for the train and it's passengers.

It happens in other places. If the job falls apart on the ECML, it isn't unknown for the late running last Northbound GC to terminate at St. Peter's Metro as Sunderland station is locked. Also not unknown for the last TPE Scarborough-Manchester to not stop at Occy Road if running late.
 

Mcr Warrior

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I can't believe some posters on here think that if the final train is delayed then the staff has every right to leave the station, lock up and just leave any passengers on that train abandoned in the station overnight! It's hardly the passengers fault the train is late.
Didn't the OP report that their train was just 2 minutes late arriving at Blackburn?
 

joke2711

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Didn't the OP report that their train was just 2 minutes late arriving at Blackburn?

That is correct, the train was timetabled to arrive at 00:21 and actually arrived at 00:23.
All this conjecture about staff not staying late is purely this.
This was a scheduled arrival into Blackburn (that runs every Friday and Saturday) and staff would have been aware of this.
The train was not cancelled and then reinstated.
It departed Micklefield on time and ran according to the timetable for its complete journey.
 

philthetube

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.

This was a scheduled arrival into Blackburn (that runs every Friday and Saturday) and staff would have been aware of this.
As anyone who works any days in 7 will confirm, it is easy to forget what day of the week it is.
 

MotCO

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As anyone who works any days in 7 will confirm, it is easy to forget what day of the week it is.

This was a scheduled arrival into Blackburn (that runs every Friday and Saturday) and staff would have been aware of this.

This is probably the most plausible explanation - and just an innocent mistake. However, there must be some safeguards put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again, either here or anywhere.
 

miami

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just an innocent mistake

There are no innocent mistakes when it comes to this type of failure. There are systematic mistakes, either procedures weren't followed (which is not an innocent mistake), or procedures are wrong (which is not an innocent mistake)
 

najaB

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There are no innocent mistakes when it comes to this type of failure. There are systematic mistakes, either procedures weren't followed (which is not an innocent mistake), or procedures are wrong (which is not an innocent mistake)
Or (if the conjecture above is correct) someone simply forgot what day it was. That's neither systemic nor procedural.
 

miami

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Or (if the conjecture above is correct) someone simply forgot what day it was. That's neither systemic nor procedural.

There is no procedure where the final person at the station contacts someone else to confirm that the station is locked up. That's a deliberate decision for whatever reason (probably to save money), which has effects like this.

The procedure could involve checking the date and time matches a printed list, crossing off the closure time.
 

etr221

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A few thoughts on this:
  1. The previous arrival was only 10-15 minutes earlier. Without knowing details - I assume it would also have had a guard, if not passengers, who would have also been locked in had the station already been locked - that implies that the station had been locked up quickly, between the two trains.
  2. And as both trains seem to be daily except Sunday, to my mind, that makes a 'just forgot which day it was' excuse somewhat implausible. But hopefully Northern's investigation will come up with an answer on that.
  3. I don't thinks anyone has commented on the time taken (a couple of hours) for someone to turn up with a key, as to whether it was acceptable or not - my view is that it wasn't, and certainly should have been sooner. Certainly something for the investigation to look at.
  4. Northern/the railway were lucky that the guard was locked in with the passengers, and able to reassure them. Otherwise it could have been much worse. The investigation should be looking at what might have happened - as well as what did.
  5. There have number of issues - thinking about trains failing to stop at Swindon, if not Harlow, amongst others - which while not being safety issues as such, should be regarded as serious failures. For safety issues there is a well established process, with the RAIB, etc., for looking at them: should there be a similar process for such 'non-safety' failures?
 

MotCO

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And as both trains seem to be daily except Sunday, to my mind, that makes a 'just forgot which day it was' excuse somewhat implausible. But hopefully Northern's investigation will come up with an answer on that.

Elsewhere in the thread, it was said the train only ran Fridays and Saturdays, which is bit unusual.
 

js1000

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Delay Repay would clearly not be appropriate in this case as it's a monumental balls up to lock up a station before the last train. Hopefully Northern go above and beyond and give you a goodwill gesture given this was false imprisonment.

I understand this may happen from time to time in many public buildings/facilities, but the train company should thank you for your behaviour in remaining patient and make it up to you. As others have say, there are some out there who would jump on tracks and climb fences if they were locked in a station after last train - which is clearly not advisable.
 
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AlterEgo

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Delay Repay would clearly not be appropriate in this case as it's a monumental balls up to lock up a station before the last train. Hopefully Northern go above and beyond and give you a goodwill gesture given this was false imprisonment.

I understand this may happen from time to time in many public buildings/facilities, but the train company should thank you for your behaviour in remaining patient and make it up to you. As others have say, there are some out there who would jump on tracks and climb fences if they were locked in a station after last train - which is clearly not advisable.
Yes, this goes well beyond delay repay territory.

Customer relations should sort this out with a gift like a hamper, the ticket fare back and perhaps a few comp journeys. Along with a detailed and fulsome explanation.
 

westcoaster

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A few thoughts on this:
  1. The previous arrival was only 10-15 minutes earlier. Without knowing details - I assume it would also have had a guard, if not passengers, who would have also been locked in had the station already been locked - that implies that the station had been locked up quickly, between the two trains.
  2. And as both trains seem to be daily except Sunday, to my mind, that makes a 'just forgot which day it was' excuse somewhat implausible. But hopefully Northern's investigation will come up with an answer on that.
  3. I don't thinks anyone has commented on the time taken (a couple of hours) for someone to turn up with a key, as to whether it was acceptable or not - my view is that it wasn't, and certainly should have been sooner. Certainly something for the investigation to look at.
  4. Northern/the railway were lucky that the guard was locked in with the passengers, and able to reassure them. Otherwise it could have been much worse. The investigation should be looking at what might have happened - as well as what did.
  5. There have number of issues - thinking about trains failing to stop at Swindon, if not Harlow, amongst others - which while not being safety issues as such, should be regarded as serious failures. For safety issues there is a well established process, with the RAIB, etc., for looking at them: should there be a similar process for such 'non-safety' failures?
Number 3.

It all depends on the location of the on call manager, and if they need to travel any great distance to retrieve the spare set of keys.
 

island

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Delay Repay would clearly not be appropriate in this case as it's a monumental balls up to lock up a station before the last train. Hopefully Northern go above and beyond and give you a goodwill gesture given this was false imprisonment.
No, it wasn’t. False imprisonment requires an intent to detain.
 

Elecman

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Number 3.

It all depends on the location of the on call manager, and if they need to travel any great distance to retrieve the spare set of keys.
And then 30-45 minutes it takes to drive from Blackpool North To Blackburn or longer given the illuminations traffic.
 

miami

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It all depends on the location of the on call manager, and if they need to travel any great distance to retrieve the spare set of keys.

Procedural failing. Blackburn is hardly Altnabraec.

Shocking that lone working policy doesn't have the lone worker phoning control on departure (and thus being told "you shouldn't be leaving at this time"), especially someone working in a public environment like a station.
 

najaB

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Shocking that lone working policy doesn't have the lone worker phoning control on departure (and thus being told "you shouldn't be leaving at this time"), especially someone working in a public environment like a station.
Assumption that it's a lone worker, no?
 

MotCO

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Assumption that it's a lone worker, no?

If it was a lone worker, it would make more sense for them to have to phone in before knocking off, so that control know that they were safe. The bonus would be that they could then tell them that they shouldn't be knocking off at that time.
 

miami

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Assumption that it's a lone worker, no?

If it's not a lone worker that relies on two people "forgetting" there's a train coming in, which is beyond belief for "safety critical staff"
 

westcoaster

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Procedural failing. Blackburn is hardly Altnabraec.

Shocking that lone working policy doesn't have the lone worker phoning control on departure (and thus being told "you shouldn't be leaving at this time"), especially someone working in a public environment like a station.
I don't know the station or staffing situation. Could it be an external contractor locks up.
 

bramling

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If that's the attitude of ANY member of railway staff, in a customer-facing role, then heaven help us.

I think even the most awkward of staff isn’t going to just lock up the station at their finish time, knowing full well there’s a train to come.

They’re within their rights to close up and leave things in a safe state however, which might for example involve informing control. This does then introduce a potential problem if for whatever reason alternative arrangements aren’t made.

It can be the case that the industry takes the proverbial in terms of arrangements being insufficiently robust to cater for situations, especially if (for example) roles are being left unfilled or uncovered. I think most people would start to get the arse if they’re expected to pick up the slack time after time, especially if there’s a poor management culture that doesn’t even bother to say thank you.

The railway industry unfortunately has plenty of such poor management culture, which is why a disproportionate number of staff change over time from being helpful and prepared to go out of their way, to awkward and strictly by the book.

I certainly wouldn't have dialed 999. 101 would be much more appropriate, whilst extremely inconvenient it doesn't require an immediate police response and the OP was perfectly safe. I recently had to dial 999 for something that required an immediate police response and it was very frustrating that it took 6 minutes to answer because all the operators were busy. I would hate to think this was because of people making non emergency calls. Again setting a fire alarm off as suggested elsewhere could potentially divert the fire service from a life saving call out.

I would try other options before contacting emergency services. Looking on noticeboards for an emergency number, googling an emergency number (if you Google 'railway emergency number' you get a number for network rail) or phoning national rail enquiries.

Given people dial 999 for situations as frivolous as their TV not working, I wouldn’t feel too guilty doing it for being trapped in a station, especially as there’s the potential for danger if someone decides to take things into their own hands.

It’s up to the 999 service to triage and prioritise.

Having said that, it would probably be better practice to try and contact the railway industry first.
 
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