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Bomb squad called after over 1,000 railway detonators found underwater

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Trackman

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1,000? Really?
What's going on?
The people who found them say they are Railway detonators and looking at the comments have been there for well over 50 years.

A disposal contractor throwing them away is my best guess.


From the MEN today:
A huge haul of potential explosive devices has been uncovered at Daisy Nook Country Park by magnetic fishermen.

Emergency services and a bomb squad scrambled to the park, near Oldham and Ashton, on Sunday evening (January 9) after more than 1,000 suspected railway explosives were found underwater at Sammy's Basin.

Sophie Doyle, who runs the Magnetic Pull page on Facebook, was one of the magnetic fishermen who discovered the items.
She told the Manchester Evening News that it was the second week that the group had found such devices at Daisy Nook - with emergency services previously racing out after 287 items were found in Crime Lake.


Sophie, 29, said: "We changed locations because we didn't want to keep pulling [explosives] up all the time, as it's a drain on resources.


Magnetic fishermen discovered this huge pile of items, believed to be railway track explosives, at Daisy Nook

Magnetic fishermen discovered this huge pile of items, believed to be railway track explosives, at Daisy Nook (Image: facebook.com/magneticpull2000)
"We moved up to Sammy's Basin, which is still in Daisy Nook, and that's where we found over 1,000 of them.


"They had been there for a very long time.
"We weren't able to identify what model they were, there were so many different models of them."
Sophie says the group of hobbyists kept discovering the railway track explosives wherever they chucked their magnets - even as they tried to avoid them.



Sophie Doyle

Sophie Doyle (Image: MEN)
Police and firefighters again had to be called out to Daisy Nook, while a bomb disposal unit also descended to pick up the huge haul of items found by the group.


"The police and the bomb squad were really shocked when they saw the big pile of explosives that we had piled on the floor for them," added Sophie.


Officers spent a number of hours at the scene with a cordon in place to protect the public.


The items were taken away to be checked by the bomb disposal team.


A spokesperson for Greater Manchester Police said: "Officers were called to a report of possible unexploded devices found in a canal in Daisy Nook Country Park in Stannybrook Road, Failsworth, just after 5.30pm on Sunday (January 9, 2022).


"Officers and the Explosive Ordnance Disposal Unit (EOD) were in attendance alongside Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service.


"A 50-metre cordon was in place as a precaution.


"All devices were removed and the area open again at 9pm.

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pieguyrob

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I suppose it makes a change to shopping trolleys. Though having read the report, they find quite a lot of them. Makes you wonder where they came from?
 

Bald Rick

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I know trainspotting gets a bad press, but fishing is right up there with it.
 

billh

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The Hollinwood Branch Canal including Crime Lake & Sammy's Basin was owned by the LNER until nationalisation in 1948, maybe there's some connection? The locks there were last used in 1933 when coal was delivered by boat for the lock -keeper (Sammy!) and the pumping engine to keep the summit level in water ceased operating. The boats using the canal were based at Gorton Canal Depot, part of Gorton "Tank""railway works. I wonder if the canal men were asked to dispose of quantities of expired dets stored at the Tank? The whole area was landscaped in the 1970's into a country park
 

ScotsRail

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How odd, I was just watching an episode of The Bill in which Tony Stamp deals with some youths mucking about with some railway detonators and a 6 year old girl ends up in hospital.

Also trying to work out what station he went to to discuss with BTP, would imagine it was Wimbledon owing to where they filmed the show.

(search The Bill Fireworks on Youtube if you want to see it)
 

Fawkes Cat

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Something of a tangent, but in the 1990s we had a memo round one day in Western Tower (Reading) asking that people stop disposing of track detonators in their waste paper baskets as they tended to explode when the rubbish was put through the compactor...
 

Towers

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How odd, I was just watching an episode of The Bill in which Tony Stamp deals with some youths mucking about with some railway detonators and a 6 year old girl ends up in hospital.

Also trying to work out what station he went to to discuss with BTP, would imagine it was Wimbledon owing to where they filmed the show.

(search The Bill Fireworks on Youtube if you want to see it)
I can imagine PC Stamp being a massive anorak, too! :D
 

Gloster

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Disposal of detonators was a problem in my day. Signal boxes were supposed to change the detonators in detonator-placers at regular intervals. However, there seemed to be no way of sending them back and they tended to end up in old cardboard boxes shoved in some odd corner. I can remember one senior Relief Signalman disappearing under a hail of old dets during Single Line Working one night when he tried to take something down from the shelf at the end of the box and tipped the container over.
 

Gloster

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Being underwater for many years does not automatically render them safe: if the casing hasn’t leaked they could theoretically explode. Look at the SS Richard Montgomery: over seventy-five years and they are beginning to get worried.
 

AndrewE

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They are probably fine (for use) after 50 years in freshwater.
The test method was to dump them in very hot water, leave them to go cold so that any lack of "airtightness" woukd suck in water, then let them off. I never had a failure.
Being made of tin-plated steel, then painted with the year colour I wouldn't be surprised if they had hardly deteriorated at all. I have a feeling that some were dumped off HOLYHEAD
 

AndrewE

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Holyhead Breakwater. The salt water woulod probably have rotted them a lot more quickly.
 

Towers

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Being underwater for many years does not automatically render them safe: if the casing hasn’t leaked they could theoretically explode. Look at the SS Richard Montgomery: over seventy-five years and they are beginning to get worried.
True; that's a fascinating case too! They're intending to cut off the masts I believe, to try and keep her stable for a few more years!
 

GB

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Disposal of detonators was a problem in my day. Signal boxes were supposed to change the detonators in detonator-placers at regular intervals. However, there seemed to be no way of sending them back and they tended to end up in old cardboard boxes shoved in some odd corner. I can remember one senior Relief Signalman disappearing under a hail of old dets during Single Line Working one night when he tried to take something down from the shelf at the end of the box and tipped the container over.

Best way to get rid of old detonators is surely to use them?

 

Pit_buzzer

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My first job had varied duties, one of which was collecting out of date detonators from signal boxes and taking them to the area managers office for disposal. I often wondered if I'd broken some bylaw or other taking them on the bus into town
 

AndrewE

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My first job had varied duties, one of which was collecting out of date detonators from signal boxes and taking them to the area managers office for disposal. I often wondered if I'd broken some bylaw or other taking them on the bus into town
You did! We once had an embarrassing incident when a guard trying to use a bus during his turn of duty in Wolverhampton was refused access because he was carrying explosives!
 

Gloster

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When I did my induction course at Eastleigh back in 1978 they told us that previously they used to get a shunter (*) to run over a det so that trainees would know what it sounded like, but they had stopped because it had become necessary to inform the police first. I don’t know what hoops you would have to jump through now.

* - Class 08/09, not a Senior Railman.
 

Taunton

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At Taunton steam shed all the date expired detonators, conveniently expiring at year end, were put down on the shed outlet track at New Years' Midnight, and run over with a locomotive.
 

Ediswan

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You did! We once had an embarrassing incident when a guard trying to use a bus during his turn of duty in Wolverhampton was refused access because he was carrying explosives!
It works both ways. Early 1980s, IRA still at work. Burger King in Leicester Square. Bag searches. Me carrying some stage detonators (for stage gunshot effects elsewhere). Passed without comment.
 

Trackman

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They are probably fine (for use) after 50 years in freshwater.
The test method was to dump them in very hot water, leave them to go cold so that any lack of "airtightness" woukd suck in water, then let them off. I never had a failure.
Rather you than me to throw them in 'very hot water'!
I suppose thy could last if air tight, depending what explosive material is in them.
 

Mugby

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They were very much in demand before EROS boards were invented, the only way of imposing an emergency speed was with an advanced warning of two dets, two feet apart and wave a yellow flag to the driver (or a lamp at night) You got through quite a lot if it was a busy line!
 

AndrewE

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Rather you than me to throw them in 'very hot water'!
I suppose thy could last if air tight, depending what explosive material is in them.
It was the official test method, so I do know "what was in them."

"Very hot water" won't do anything at all to the percussion caps in them or to the gunpowder. Any air that escaped was replaced by water sucked back in as it cooled, which wetted the gunpowder, which wouldn't then explode under test... But the test load had to be heavy enough and fast enough, or they could (occasionally) be rolled flat without going off.

From your comment I guess you wouldn't have enjoyed filing them open, or sieving and weighing the powder to check the weight and grain size. It was good fun hitting each of the 5 caps in each det with a hammer to make sure they went off though (not the wet test ones, they weree a different lot from the same batch obviously!)
 

Paul Kelly

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Why do (did?) they need to be regularly disposed of and replaced, if they're potentially still good after 50 years?
 

WatcherZero

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I believe the explosive used in them is potassium chlorate which is shock sensitive, it will also be set off by exposure to sulfur or acid.
Sand is mixed into the explosive to reduce the sensitivity of the munition (increase the size of shock required to set it off), if the case is damaged or rusted the moisture could possible get in, sodium chloride is highly water soluble and will dissove, seperating it from the rest of the explosive ingredients.
 
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