Vaccine passport disaster in Scotland

VauxhallandI · 12 Jan 2022

Red Onion said:
I had a very long discussion with them on the phone. I have appealed it but expect it to go nowhere. Even conditions like myocarditis don’t qualify for it.

I was told that I will “probably be okay” with further vaccination and that if complications arose to see my doctor. That was it. It’s a shambles.

They are an utter disgrace to humanity these people. Blue heart my ....

My Mother had a similar issue with blood clots after the first vaccination. She sent weeks trying to have an adult discussion with a member of the NHS, I'm afraid it wasn't possible. Just parrots available.

I have no support of anyone in the NHS anymore; they are among the worst in this. They should be helping us not donning their Stormtrooper helmets and doing the bidding of others. Pop them in the same box as the Police Force in all this.

RailUK Forums

Eyersey468 · 12 Jan 2022

Red Onion said:
I had a very long discussion with them on the phone. I have appealed it but expect it to go nowhere. Even conditions like myocarditis don’t qualify for it.

I was told that I will “probably be okay” with further vaccination and that if complications arose to see my doctor. That was it. It’s a shambles.

Sorrh but the way you have been treated is disgusting. The authorities should be ashamed of themselves

Red Onion · 12 Jan 2022

VauxhallandI said:
They are an utter disgrace to humanity these people. Blue heart my ....

My Mother had a similar issue with blood clots after the first vaccination. She sent weeks trying to have an adult discussion with a member of the NHS, I'm afraid it wasn't possible. Just parrots available.

I have no support of anyone in the NHS anymore; they are among the worst in this. They should be helping us not donning their Stormtrooper helmets and doing the bidding of others. Pop them in the same box as the Police Force in all this.

I am sorry to hear that your mother had such a time of it. Unfortunately she is in a club of us who have been utterly abandoned by the very health service that made us unwell. I have no real time for them either, even to say I’m somewhat bitter towards them. Having been made unwell by them, it is the lack of interest in helping and even the uncaring nature of some “professionals” that has left me questioning them and destroyed all trust I had in the service.

Eyersey468 said:
Sorrh but the way you have been treated is disgusting. The authorities should be ashamed of themselves

Thank you. It’s a shambles. I will see if this appeal gets anywhere…

VauxhallandI · 12 Jan 2022

Red Onion said:
I am sorry to hear that your mother had such a time of it. Unfortunately she is in a club of us who have been utterly abandoned by the very health service that made us unwell. I have no real time for them either, even to say I’m somewhat bitter towards them. Having been made unwell by them, it is the lack of interest in helping and even the uncaring nature of some “professionals” that has left me questioning them and destroyed all trust I had in the service.

Thank you. It’s a shambles. I will see if this appeal gets anywhere…

Yep and considering she gave the majority working life to the NHS its particularly annoying.

Saying that the NHS gave her a breakdown through mismanagement 25 years ago and she still receives monies for it. So they have form

NorthKent1989 · 12 Jan 2022

VauxhallandI said:
They are an utter disgrace to humanity these people. Blue heart my ....

My Mother had a similar issue with blood clots after the first vaccination. She sent weeks trying to have an adult discussion with a member of the NHS, I'm afraid it wasn't possible. Just parrots available.

I have no support of anyone in the NHS anymore; they are among the worst in this. They should be helping us not donning their Stormtrooper helmets and doing the bidding of others. Pop them in the same box as the Police Force in all this.

Sorry about your mum, I’m fully with you regarding the NHS, if there were more drs like the one on sky news that spoke out then I would support the organisation, there are individuals speaking out however

kristiang85 · 12 Jan 2022

NorthKent1989 said:
Sorry about your mum, I’m fully with you regarding the NHS, if there were more drs like the one on sky news that spoke out then I would support the organisation, there are individuals speaking out however

I think many in the NHS feel the same way, but seeing how villified that doctor was by the loud blue heart brigade, no wonder they keep quiet.

Its like a coal miner crossing the picket in the 70s.

Butts · 13 Jan 2022

Failed Unit said:
I guess the solution is simple for me, don't visit Scotland. I was there in October, visiting family and even then it was much less pleasant than England because of its more draconian restriction (even then). The Scottish government are killing Scottish businesses and their is only so long that people will accept it is all Westminster's fault. Considering the different approaches, England's and Scotland's infection rates are about the same most of the time. Not enough variation to claim the hard line in Scotland is more successful anyway.

Another case of myopia with regard to the SNP's conduct and polices I'm afraid.

Incidentally is your location out of date or is there another "Central Belt" out with Scotland ?

NorthKent1989 · 14 Jan 2022

kristiang85 said:
I think many in the NHS feel the same way, but seeing how villified that doctor was by the loud blue heart brigade, no wonder they keep quiet.

Its like a coal miner crossing the picket in the 70s.

It is similar, and you could see the young nurses looking extremely uncomfortable when Javid asked them about the vaccine, all looking at one another as if they feared for their lives or something, no one should be that scared to come out and say they don’t want the vaccine, but sadly the last two years have bred a culture of shaming others for not doing as the establishment wants you to do or behave.

Djgr · 14 Jan 2022

NorthKent1989 said:
It is similar, and you could see the young nurses looking extremely uncomfortable when Javid asked them about the vaccine, all looking at one another as if they feared for their lives or something, no one should be that scared to come out and say they don’t want the vaccine, but sadly the last two years have bred a culture of shaming others for not doing as the establishment wants you to do or behave.

I'm happy for anyone not to have the vaccine but I don't want them within a million miles of me if I am in hospital for treatment.

seagull · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
I'm happy for anyone not to have the vaccine but I don't want them within a million miles of me if I am in hospital for treatment.

A little O/T but while your first sentiment is laudable, your second thought is exactly what the media and establishment want you to believe.

Meanwhile, in The Lancet:

"There is increasing evidence that vaccinated individuals continue to have a relevant role in transmission. In Massachusetts, USA, a total of 469 new COVID-19 cases were detected during various events in July, 2021, and 346 (74%) of these cases were in people who were fully or partly vaccinated, 274 (79%) of whom were symptomatic. Cycle threshold values were similarly low between people who were fully vaccinated (median 22·8) and people who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median 21·5), indicating a high viral load even among people who were fully vaccinated.

In the USA, a total of 10 262 COVID-19 cases were reported in vaccinated people by April 30, 2021, of whom 2725 (26·6%) were asymptomatic, 995 (9·7%) were hospitalised, and 160 (1·6%) died.

In Germany, 55·4% of symptomatic COVID-19 cases in patients aged 60 years or older were in fully vaccinated individuals, and this proportion is increasing each week. In Münster, Germany, new cases of COVID-19 occurred in at least 85 (22%) of 380 people who were fully vaccinated or who had recovered from COVID-19 and who attended a nightclub. People who are vaccinated have a lower risk of severe disease but are still a relevant part of the pandemic."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

While I myself am fully jabbed up, as are my family and most relatives, I am not a huge fan of the push towards it being compulsory or treating those without as if they had leprosy (or worse).

NorthKent1989 · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
I'm happy for anyone not to have the vaccine but I don't want them within a million miles of me if I am in hospital for treatment.

You do know that you can still catch the virus even when vaccinated, and it’s in the air so your efforts will be futile.

Covid is something we can live with now that everyone, vaxxed or unvaxxed has had it, let’s leave this fear and unnecessary divisions in 2020 & 2021

Bantamzen · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
I'm happy for anyone not to have the vaccine but I don't want them within a million miles of me if I am in hospital for treatment.

Why? Because you do know that vaccinated people can also pass on the virus right? And moreover people not vaccinated may well, in fact by now probably have had covid, recovered and built up similar levels of protection as vaccinated people.

Djgr · 14 Jan 2022

Bantamzen said:
Why? Because you do know that vaccinated people can also pass on the virus right? And moreover people not vaccinated may well, in fact by now probably have had covid, recovered and built up similar levels of protection as vaccinated people.

The same reason that I would like surgeons to wash their hands before operating on me. Whilst vaccinated can indeed pass on the virus, it is less likely to occur than with non-vaccinated.

SJN · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
The same reason that I would like surgeons to wash their hands before operating on me. Whilst vaccinated can indeed pass on the virus, it is less likely to occur than with non-vaccinated.

I really don’t think that’s the case. Everyone I know who has caught it recently is at least double jabbed (mostly triple). I don’t think it makes that much difference to be honest.

MikeWM · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
The same reason that I would like surgeons to wash their hands before operating on me. Whilst vaccinated can indeed pass on the virus, it is less likely to occur than with non-vaccinated.

The current case rate figures don't bear that out. Vaccinated individuals *in every adult group* appear more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated, by at least a factor of 2 in those under 70, and if you have it you can also spread it:

(table showing thae vaccinated case rates much higher than unvaccinated - source here).

As previously discussed whenever I post these figures, there are caveats - unvaccinated people may be less likely to test, the population estimates may be wrong, etc. But it is clear that, even if the figures are somewhat skewed by external factors, vaccination isn't doing pretty much anything at all to prevent *infection* at this point.

Bantamzen · 14 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
The same reason that I would like surgeons to wash their hands before operating on me. Whilst vaccinated can indeed pass on the virus, it is less likely to occur than with non-vaccinated.

As @MikeWM rightly points out, that is no longer believed to be the case. Like I said, someone who chose not to have the vaccine but has had the virus is likely to have similar if not the same level of protection as someone vaccinated. And as most people in this country are believed to have been exposed to the vaccine, virus or both (97.7% as of 20/12/2021), the chances of interacting with someone who hasn't is increasingly unlikely.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) latest insights - Office for National Statistics

The latest data and trends about the coronavirus (COVID-18) pandemic from the Office for National Statistics and other sources.

www.ons.gov.uk

In Scotland, it is estimated that 97.7% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 97.1% to 98.2%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 in the same week.

TPO · 17 Jan 2022

Red Onion said:
I had a very long discussion with them on the phone. I have appealed it but expect it to go nowhere. Even conditions like myocarditis don’t qualify for it.

I was told that I will “probably be okay” with further vaccination and that if complications arose to see my doctor. That was it. It’s a shambles.

Red Onion said:
I am sorry to hear that your mother had such a time of it. Unfortunately she is in a club of us who have been utterly abandoned by the very health service that made us unwell. I have no real time for them either, even to say I’m somewhat bitter towards them. Having been made unwell by them, it is the lack of interest in helping and even the uncaring nature of some “professionals” that has left me questioning them and destroyed all trust I had in the service.

Thank you. It’s a shambles. I will see if this appeal gets anywhere…

The major reason I decided not to have the booster was because of a total unwillingness by NHS to accept that serious side effects do occur and instead to parrot the mantra of it being safe.

A friend has severe vasculitis, is on specialist meds including a form of chemotherapy. Like me he'd had the 2 AZ vaccines. But with the fizer booster, he had concerns as his condition could make him high risk for the jab. He was assured it would be OK, his concerns dismissed, had the booster then was very ill after the booster. Also took quite a bit of push to get extra treatment needed to get over it.

After the first AZ, as a menopausal woman I was alarmed to have a period 28 days after the jab. I mentioned it as a side effect at the second one, female vaccinator commented that quite a few women had told her that. I later saw a Spectator article which discussed it, yet the NHS barely acknowledged it occurs and no-one had the foggiest why this happened. Like other women, I did not have this happen after having COVID and there's never been a report of this side effect with other vaccines. Given how closely entwined the menstrual cycle and immune system are linked and given my highly atopic tendency this is concerning.

So, Given that my immune system has been trained already to resist COVID, I will not willingly have another COVID jab until the effect of the jab triggering periods in recently menopausal women or otherwise altering the menstrual cycle is fully understood and shown not to be harmful, AND the immunity to being sued is withdrawn from vaccine manufacturers. The virus has changed to cause less harm, vaccinated people still spread the virus, I have a level of immunity so the risk calculation for me is not in favour of any more boosters.

TPO

102 fan · 17 Jan 2022

Djgr said:
I'm happy for anyone not to have the vaccine but I don't want them within a million miles of me if I am in hospital for treatment.

I think if you're in hospital, quite possibly in pain, the vaccinated status of the medical staff will be very far from your mind. And just out curiously, as the staff will be wearing protection, do you not trust that either?

Eyersey468 · 18 Jan 2022

TPO said:
The major reason I decided not to have the booster was because of a total unwillingness by NHS to accept that serious side effects do occur and instead to parrot the mantra of it being safe.

A friend has severe vasculitis, is on specialist meds including a form of chemotherapy. Like me he'd had the 2 AZ vaccines. But with the fizer booster, he had concerns as his condition could make him high risk for the jab. He was assured it would be OK, his concerns dismissed, had the booster then was very ill after the booster. Also took quite a bit of push to get extra treatment needed to get over it.

After the first AZ, as a menopausal woman I was alarmed to have a period 28 days after the jab. I mentioned it as a side effect at the second one, female vaccinator commented that quite a few women had told her that. I later saw a Spectator article which discussed it, yet the NHS barely acknowledged it occurs and no-one had the foggiest why this happened. Like other women, I did not have this happen after having COVID and there's never been a report of this side effect with other vaccines. Given how closely entwined the menstrual cycle and immune system are linked and given my highly atopic tendency this is concerning.

So, Given that my immune system has been trained already to resist COVID, I will not willingly have another COVID jab until the effect of the jab triggering periods in recently menopausal women or otherwise altering the menstrual cycle is fully understood and shown not to be harmful, AND the immunity to being sued is withdrawn from vaccine manufacturers. The virus has changed to cause less harm, vaccinated people still spread the virus, I have a level of immunity so the risk calculation for me is not in favour of any more boosters.

TPO

I have heard a number of reports of womens menstrual cycles being affected by the vaccine. This concerns me as does the apparent unwillingness of the NHS and authorities to study this properly. Instead they simply claim its coincidence and parrot the mantra of its safe etc. One report could be put down to coincidence but when there has been several it does make me wonder.

Mag_seven · 18 Jan 2022

Just a reminder that this thread is for the discussion of Vaccine Passports in Scotland.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are are welcome to start a new thread.

thanks

Red Onion · 18 Jan 2022

Seems that there is no extension to the scheme for now. The spectre of it is still dangling over us but thankfully we are still able to go for a coffee without seeking permission from chief mammy…

Kite159 · 19 Jan 2022

Red Onion said:
Seems that there is no extension to the scheme for now. The spectre of it is still dangling over us but thankfully we are still able to go for a coffee without seeking permission from chief mammy…

Give it time

No doubt at some stage you will need to show a vaccine passport in order to stay in a hotel etc

102 fan · 19 Jan 2022

Kite159 said:
Give it time

No doubt at some stage you will need to show a vaccine passport in order to stay in a hotel etc

Do what I did to our devolved representatives. I wrote to them reminding them that this April they will be begging for our votes, and that restricting peoples lives is not a good look going into an election, and your vote will go to those who don't want restrictions. If we all did it in the devolved nations, it would certainly concentrate the minds of Sturgeon, Drakeford and Givan.

Berliner · 20 Jan 2022

102 fan said:
Do what I did to our devolved representatives. I wrote to them reminding them that this April they will be begging for our votes, and that restricting peoples lives is not a good look going into an election, and your vote will go to those who don't want restrictions. If we all did it in the devolved nations, it would certainly concentrate the minds of Sturgeon, Drakeford and Givan.

The thing is not everyone would do that. Sturgeon especially is still a popular figure as the public still support the level of restrictions she has imposed. No idea about Drakford or Givans levels of popularity. So it's going to be another good night for the SNP. In any event, council elections don't mean much, especially when it comes to Covid rules. I'd prefer if political parties were banned at council level and everyone was just an independent, there is far too much dragging of national politics into council elections, which are completely powerless to change anything on that level.

Hadders · 20 Jan 2022

Kite159 said:
Give it time

No doubt at some stage you will need to show a vaccine passport in order to stay in a hotel etc

You already do in Northern Ireland. Well you do if you want breakfast....

102 fan · 20 Jan 2022

Berliner said:
The thing is not everyone would do that. Sturgeon especially is still a popular figure as the public still support the level of restrictions she has imposed. No idea about Drakford or Givans levels of popularity. So it's going to be another good night for the SNP. In any event, council elections don't mean much, especially when it comes to Covid rules. I'd prefer if political parties were banned at council level and everyone was just an independent, there is far too much dragging of national politics into council elections, which are completely powerless to change anything on that level.

So after all this Sturgeon still is popular?! I despair sometimes. I would disband every devolved assembly, 650 overpaid MP's in Westminster is more than enough without the pretendy assemblies draining even more money. How many medical staff could be employed with thier wages?

Berliner · 20 Jan 2022

102 fan said:
So after all this Sturgeon still is popular?! I despair sometimes. I would disband every devolved assembly, 650 overpaid MP's in Westminster is more than enough without the pretendy assemblies draining even more money. How many medical staff could be employed with thier wages?

Perhaps people simply don't see her Covid approach as being as bad as the people on this forum think it is. You're entitled to your view, but the fact is she is the most popular leader at holyrood despite all the negative policies.

danm14 · 20 Jan 2022

Hadders said:
You already do in Northern Ireland. Well you do if you want breakfast....

Thankfully only until next Wednesday, as it is expected to be announced today that vaccine passports will only be required for nightclubs and large indoor events from that date; with their complete removal expected in mid-February.

I wonder if this will make Nicola more or less likely to extend the scheme in Scotland.

102 fan · 20 Jan 2022

Berliner said:
Perhaps people simply don't see her Covid approach as being as bad as the people on this forum think it is. You're entitled to your view, but the fact is she is the most popular leader at holyrood despite all the negative policies.

We'll not know until there's an election. I still think the SNP vote will decrease though.

brad465 · 23 Jan 2022

Sturgeon has probably just disenfranchised every business owner affected by restrictions with this latest statement:

Covid in Scotland: Restrictions impact 'worth it', says Sturgeon

The First Minister says Covid rules made enough of a difference to justify the financial impact on business and hospitality.

www.bbc.co.uk

The impact of Scotland's Covid restrictions on business and hospitality have been "worth it", First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said.
Ms Sturgeon said she understood the measures had a "very adverse" effect.
But she told the BBC's Sunday Morning programme that "we're hopefully seeing Scotland firmly on the downward slope".
Restrictions introduced over the festive period are being phased out, with nightclubs reopening and large indoor events resuming from Monday.
The first minister said the rules made enough of a difference to the spread of the Omicron variant to justify the financial impact.

She added: "That's not me saying I don't understand and agree that those measures had a very adverse affect on businesses. Hospitality throughout the pandemic has been one of the worst hit sectors.
"But it is not a case of having protective measures and businesses are damaged, or having no proactive measures and everything is fine.
"It is the difference between having protective measures that stem transmission, or allowing transmission to go completely uncontrolled - in which case the impact on business is even greater and even more damaging."

From Monday guidance advising adults against meeting up with more than three households at a time will also be scrapped, along with curbs on indoor contact sports.
However longer-running measures such as the use of face coverings on public transport and indoor public places will continue.
Scotland's vaccine passport scheme for businesses and events remains in place. Ms Sturgeon said it helped "as a package of measures" to protect against transmission.

'Economic consequences'
She added: "I don't underplay the impact of any of these measures on businesses and the night-time industry, but checking Covid certification is a better alternative to being closed
She said the scheme was "not causing anybody any real hardship" and had allowed large events to go ahead.
The first minister said she hoped that vaccine passports and wearing of facemasks would "eventually" come to an end.
She said: "None of us enjoy wearing masks, they are not the biggest handicap to endure as we try to spread transmission."
Ms Sturgeon said there would be big "economic consequences" if we let virus spread in an uncontrolled way.

Vaccine passport disaster in Scotland

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

'Economic consequences'​

'Economic consequences'