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Select Service Partner - Unfair Monopoly

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Skymonster

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Whether or not it is unfair or not I would argue that it is somewhat deceptive, letting consumers believe there is meaningful competition operating, which is assumed to be in their interest as "consumer sovereigns".
I don’t see it as being overly deceptive. One thing franchises are pretty good at is standards, and one can usually be assured of getting as good a Starbucks / Costa / McDonalds / Subway / etc at any similarly branded outlet. The good thing is, whichever company runs the outlets, there is now far more choice and consistency/ quality at stations that there was in the BR days. The major issue to me is that this has sometimes come at a cost of the consumer. Only those consumers can work out for themselves whether that cost is justified or whether they will walk round the corner to the proverbial Tesco Express / Sainsbury Local / etc.
 
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Djgr

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I don’t see it as being overly deceptive. One thing franchises are pretty good at is standards, and one can usually be assured of getting as good a Starbucks / Costa / McDonalds / Subway / etc at any similarly branded outlet. The good thing is, whichever company runs the outlets, there is now far more choice and consistency/ quality at stations that there was in the BR days. The major issue to me is that this has sometimes come at a cost of the consumer. Only those consumers can work out for themselves whether that cost is justified or whether they will walk round the corner to the proverbial Tesco Express / Sainsbury Local / etc.
Are Pumpkin and the like really franchises?

I wonder what consumers would think if they knew many of the retail outlets were all run by the same organisation. I wonder why they aren't told.
 

Bletchleyite

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There are two spaces in Queen Street currently on offer. The longer term plan is to redevelop the space to the east as a food court, or whatever it's called in 2022.

Ah, that'll help.

Away from stations there's a lot of variation in offerings at Subway- the breakfasts offered at a Subway in Bradford (and the sole outlet in Dewsbury) are quite limited due to Islamic dietary restrictions. Whether this is at the behest of customers, staff, or franchise holders, I'm not sure.

Halal is a standard offering for Subway in areas where demand for it would be high (e.g. the examples you give) or where the franchisee is Muslim and so doesn't want to serve pork etc (e.g. the one closest to Paddington, or at least it was), there's also one near me. They have some substitute offerings (e.g. turkey bacon which is quite nice) and also some omissions.

Are Pumpkin and the like really franchises?

More brands than franchises. They are operated by their owner.

Plenty of companies have more than one brand. The "fake brands" in Aldi are a good example.

I wonder what consumers would think if they knew many of the retail outlets were all run by the same organisation. I wonder why they aren't told.

I don't think they would care. This Forum has a particular obsession with competition. Most people are just bothered that it sells something that they want to buy, and if it doesn't they take it with them. The elevated prices (which aren't the fault of the lack of competition, but rather because Network Rail want their cut) are just seen as one of those things, like fuel at motorway services.
 

skyhigh

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I'd not noticed variance in McD's, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did now allow variance, which would be why you now get them at motorway services when you never used to. (BK have always allowed variance).
McDonald's seem to have gone the other way and reduced variance in some respects - a normal size coffee is now 99p everywhere I've been including service stations, whereas going back a bit it used to be slightly more expensive at station outlets and some services were up to around £1.89. It's now easily the cheapest place for a coffee at a motorway services. I rarely buy food there so can't comment on that aspect.
 

physics34

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Its a real shame SSP brands such as Delice De France and Upper Crust are now substandard and clearly a rip off, their offerings used to be good. Burger King at stations is now ridiculously expensive, plus i dont know what Cafe Ritazza etc offer that is any better than Nero/Starbucks etc. The Pasty shop and Mi Casa are also rip offs of West Cornwall Pasy Company and Tortilla.

I think they have lost their way... there were better offerings when Quicksnack and Casey Jones were around!...

Plus, us staff used to get 20% discount. Nothing now.
 

Llandudno

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Away from stations there's a lot of variation in offerings at Subway- the breakfasts offered at a Subway in Bradford (and the sole outlet in Dewsbury) are quite limited due to Islamic dietary restrictions. Whether this is at the behest of customers, staff, or franchise holders, I'm not sure.

The downside of Burger King allowing more variation is that if you haven't used that outlet before, you'll have no idea if it's any good or not. For all their faults, McDonald's is at least consistent (almost worryingly so).
Yep, they offer Turkey ‘Bacon’ on their breakfast deal, it’s ok if you put loads of brown sauce on it!
 

Djgr

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Ah, that'll help.



Halal is a standard offering for Subway in areas where demand for it would be high (e.g. the examples you give) or where the franchisee is Muslim and so doesn't want to serve pork etc (e.g. the one closest to Paddington, or at least it was), there's also one near me. They have some substitute offerings (e.g. turkey bacon which is quite nice) and also some omissions.



More brands than franchises. They are operated by their owner.

Plenty of companies have more than one brand. The "fake brands" in Aldi are a good example.



I don't think they would care. This Forum has a particular obsession with competition. Most people are just bothered that it sells something that they want to buy, and if it doesn't they take it with them. The elevated prices (which aren't the fault of the lack of competition, but rather because Network Rail want their cut) are just seen as one of those things, like fuel at motorway services.
I am cynical enough to believe that if businesses don't
Ah, that'll help.



Halal is a standard offering for Subway in areas where demand for it would be high (e.g. the examples you give) or where the franchisee is Muslim and so doesn't want to serve pork etc (e.g. the one closest to Paddington, or at least it was), there's also one near me. They have some substitute offerings (e.g. turkey bacon which is quite nice) and also some omissions.



More brands than franchises. They are operated by their owner.

Plenty of companies have more than one brand. The "fake brands" in Aldi are a good example.



I don't think they would care. This Forum has a particular obsession with competition. Most people are just bothered that it sells something that they want to buy, and if it doesn't they take it with them. The elevated prices (which aren't the fault of the lack of competition, but rather because Network Rail want their cut) are just seen as one of those things, like fuel at motorway services.

Ah, that'll help.



Halal is a standard offering for Subway in areas where demand for it would be high (e.g. the examples you give) or where the franchisee is Muslim and so doesn't want to serve pork etc (e.g. the one closest to Paddington, or at least it was), there's also one near me. They have some substitute offerings (e.g. turkey bacon which is quite nice) and also some omissions.



More brands than franchises. They are operated by their owner.

Plenty of companies have more than one brand. The "fake brands" in Aldi are a good example.



I don't think they would care. This Forum has a particular obsession with competition. Most people are just bothered that it sells something that they want to buy, and if it doesn't they take it with them. The elevated prices (which aren't the fault of the lack of competition, but rather because Network Rail want their cut) are just seen as one of those things, like fuel at motorway services.
I am cynical enough to believe that if businesses aren't open and honest with their customers there's a good reason.

The more I think about the current predominant set up regarding station catering the more I think it should be trashed as the current set up is pretty mediocre.

Certainly those outlets that haven't reopened "due to Covid" should be forfeited and reassigned.

A useful exercise for the forum would be to develop a listing of good quality establishments on and around railway stations.

As an example, I have always been a big fan of the Java cafe on the Manchester Oxford Road approach road, whilst the Pumpkin (or whatever-which seems to have succumbed to COVID) on the platform is complete trash.
 
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physics34

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Why should they give you a discount if you don't work for the company? They're a business, not a charity.
Previously being part of british rail they of course offered their colleagues discount, this continued into privatisation but then stopped. Its called an incentive for workers. Too bad i use other outlets now, they lost my business.
 

NoOnesFool

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Previously being part of british rail they of course offered their colleagues discount, this continued into privatisation but then stopped. Its called an incentive for workers. Too bad i use other outlets now, they lost my business.
You are not a colleague if you don't work for SSP. They offer SSP employees a discount at all SSP outlets excluding Rail Gourmet.
 

Skymonster

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I’ve always thought the name Rail Gourmet was something of an oxymoron actually
 

physics34

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You are not a colleague if you don't work for SSP. They offer SSP employees a discount at all SSP outlets excluding Rail Gourmet.
Im aware of that. But theyve lost my business. Oh well.

Cafe Nero offer 10% discount to rail staff.... who are not colleagues. Theyve gained my business.
 

tomuk

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Maybe slightly OT, but the multiple-outlet franchising food & drink retailing system also applies to large stations in many other European countries too. In Italy, for example, the franchise for large and medium-sized stations is held by a company called Chef Express
They are an Italian version of SSP they started out as a beef producer, they now run station and motorway services in Italy, onboard catering in 15 countries including Eurostar as Momentum Services they also bought Bagel Factory in the UK.
 

philthetube

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Are Pumpkin and the like really franchises?

I wonder what consumers would think if they knew many of the retail outlets were all run by the same organisation. I wonder why they aren't told.
If they care google will tell them
Why should they give you a discount if you don't work for the company? They're a business, not a charity.
Good business, people feel privileged if they qualify for discount and will visit more often, where I worked one café offered 10% for all rail staff, they got 90% of business from the depot.
 

Scott1

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I wonder what consumers would think if they knew many of the retail outlets were all run by the same organisation. I wonder why they aren't told.
They usually have a sign, or a brass plaque, telling you they are part of SSP. The public generally don't care enough to check, which is fair enough.

Costa and SSP cafes at most stations on our patch offer staff discount to front line rail staff. I've even known a free coffee to be handed to a particularly cold looking gate line employee.
 

Elecman

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*all* the coffee shops at Euston give NR staff a discount. Not sure about TOC staff.
I’ve not been offered that other than at the old Costa wether in full NR PPe or just with my NR station access identity badge on open display
 

Skie

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I got a bacon bap from Upper Crust once a few years ago. But it was more like a bun someone had stabbed and just stuffed fat into the hole. Vile.

WH Smiths makes me laugh too. An empty shop selling £3 bottles of pop in Sheffield bus station and Liverpool Central and somewhere selling it for the usual £1.20 retail price just seconds away. The markup on everything is probably so high they really dont need many customers, but it's hardly good to have dead shops ripping people off in stations.
 

physics34

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I got a bacon bap from Upper Crust once a few years ago. But it was more like a bun someone had stabbed and just stuffed fat into the hole. Vile.

WH Smiths makes me laugh too. An empty shop selling £3 bottles of pop in Sheffield bus station and Liverpool Central and somewhere selling it for the usual £1.20 retail price just seconds away. The markup on everything is probably so high they really dont need many customers, but it's hardly good to have dead shops ripping people off in stations.
WHSmith are something else with their pricing. Awful.
 

Djgr

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I got a bacon bap from Upper Crust once a few years ago. But it was more like a bun someone had stabbed and just stuffed fat into the hole. Vile.

WH Smiths makes me laugh too. An empty shop selling £3 bottles of pop in Sheffield bus station and Liverpool Central and somewhere selling it for the usual £1.20 retail price just seconds away. The markup on everything is probably so high they really dont need many customers, but it's hardly good to have dead shops ripping people off in stations.
It's hard to believe that WHSmiths used to be one of the nation's favourite brands, since it has turned rogue.

Of course in Liverpool Central proper is/was? Merseyrail's (not surprisingly ill-fated) M to Go, whose business model was predicated on the assumption that customers will buy from there rather than walk 20 seconds to the shop they have literally just walked past and literally seen items advertised much more cheaply.

Here is a lesson from me for free. Treat your customers with respect and they might respect you.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's hard to believe that WHSmiths used to be one of the nation's favourite brands, since it has turned rogue.

It is fairly easy to believe when you consider that basically everything it ever sold is on the decline.

Of course in Liverpool Central proper is/was? Merseyrail's (not surprisingly ill-fated) M to Go, whose business model was predicated on the assumption that customers will buy from there rather than walk 20 seconds to the shop they have literally just walked past and literally seen items advertised much more cheaply.

Mtogo was a good idea from a different era - one when the only decent way of providing security was a person on site and when TVMs weren't good enough to sell everything. But I would agree in terms of what it is meant to be it is not very good.

Here is a lesson from me for free. Treat your customers with respect and they might respect you.

Yep.
 

NoOnesFool

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If they care google will tell them

Good business, people feel privileged if they qualify for discount and will visit more often, where I worked one café offered 10% for all rail staff, they got 90% of business from the depot.
And do the railstaff's employers (TOCs) offer a 10% discount for SSP staff? No. S S P are a business, why would they give their products for 10% less than what they are priced at? Great service, quality products and a pleasant environment to eat them in is what makes customers feel privileged and S S P provide that. They have gotten by quite well for many years, I don't think they are going to go bankrupt because they won't give a discount to cheapskate rail staff.
 

Bletchleyite

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And do the railstaff's employers (TOCs) offer a 10% discount for SSP staff? No. S S P are a business, why would they give their products for 10% less than what they are priced at? Great service, quality products and a pleasant environment to eat them in is what makes customers feel privileged and S S P provide that. They have gotten by quite well for many years, I don't think they are going to go bankrupt because they won't give a discount to cheapskate rail staff.

Wonder who you work for? :)

I don't share the hate for SSP's brands, I just find them a bit expensive, but that's mostly because of Network Rail's cut. I wouldn't however, with a few exceptions, call the service "great", the products "quality" or the environment all that "pleasant".

It does a job in the same sense that most motorway services do. I see no massive need to change it, and people are at liberty to bid against them for units if they wish to do so. But I'd not say it's perfect.
 
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skyhigh

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Great service, quality products and a pleasant environment to eat them in is what makes customers feel privileged and S S P provide that.
Can't say they provide any of those at most of their outlets I've used. I certainly don't leave feeling privileged!!
 

NoOnesFool

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Wonder who you work for? :)

I don't share the hate for SSP's brands, I just find them a bit expensive, but that's mostly because of Network Rail's cut. I wouldn't however, with a few exceptions, call the service "great", the products "quality" or the environment all that "pleasant".

It does a job in the same sense that most motorway services do.
I used to work for SSP (Rail Gourmet) AND I got complimentary travel on train services. So, I'm not biased.

Brands such as Pumpkin offer an environment that is pleasant and preferable to a waiting room. With regards to pricing, the cafe at Loughborough station is independent I believe, certainly not SSP and they charged £4.25 for an instant noodle pot when I went there three years or so ago. So, I don't think removing SSP's 'monopoly' would change that.
 

Bletchleyite

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I used to work for SSP (Rail Gourmet) AND I got complimentary travel on train services. So, I'm not biased.

Brands such as Pumpkin offer an environment that is pleasant

Er, do they? I'd not use any stronger than "acceptable" for them, for the most part.

Caffe Ritazza in Euston is the only one I can think of where I would describe the environment as pleasant. Most of them have a "1980s greasy cafe without the bacon and egg" type feel.

and preferable to a waiting room

I'll give you that, but that just says how bad the waiting rooms are!
 

dosxuk

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Great service, quality products and a pleasant environment to eat them in is what makes customers feel privileged and S S P provide that.

If SSP or their staff think that any of the above is even vaguely accurate, they must have a even worse relationship with the truth than our current Prime Minister.

At best you could rate them as "acceptable". "Good enough" or "better than the alternative [of a vending machine / draughty platform bench]" are other ways to describe their offering. For myself, and I suspect the majority of their customers, the only reason I use SSP outlets is because of the convenience factor, and I'm well aware I'm paying a premium for that - not the quality of their products or staff.
 
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