How useful are the WONs?

martin2345uk · 12 May 2022

Reading a report of the Bletchley Junction derailment https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/derailment-at-bletchley-junction-bletchley

it mentions that, the driver had apparently read the part of the Weekly Operating Notice concerning engineering works, so he could have realised he’d have to be routed over the 15mph crossover as it was the last place to do so to avoid the published possession.

It also goes on to say:

The role of the Weekly Operating Notice in assuring safety is not entirely clear within the railway industry. Section B of the notice, which contains details of engineering work, has a significant amount of detail that is irrelevant for drivers making it less easy for them to identify the relevant information. In addition, for a train like 0A90, the driver does not know in advance how it will be routed, and may not have read a part of the notice applicable to a section of route he subsequently drives over.

What are other drivers’ thoughts on the WONs?

Personally I tend to skim past the engineering section… it’s just too much info to readily take in, I don’t find it clear, and as the report says if you drive to the signalling you shouldn’t really need to know about possessions.

I sometimes think surely in this digital age it should be possible to get “bespoke“ WONs just for particular routes a TOC/FOC may drive? Maybe some already do have this, it might make them less “hefty” and more digestible…

Interested to hear other opinions!

RailUK Forums

pdeaves · 12 May 2022

In my view, how useful a WON is depends a great deal on what you want it for. The section B stuff (engineering possessions) is immensely useful to (some!) engineering folk and probably isn't intended nowadays for drivers (with the possible exception of those driving engineering trains; I don't know).

physics34 · 12 May 2022

Its a bit of a.. shall we say... headf*ck.... i believe the info should be more route specific for routes drivers sign.... the technology is there. It would surely also save paper.

Jim Jehosofat · 12 May 2022

Its a long while since I had anything to do with the WON, but the technology was certainly available at least 15 years ago to produce bespoke WONs. This was one of the reasons that the Anglia Route split their two main lines into smaller portions in the Sectional Appendix. The Great Eastern mainline, for example, used to be EA101 Liverpool Street to Norwich and was split into EA1010 Liverpool Street to Seven Kings, EA1011 Seven Kings to Ipswich, EA1012 Ipswich to Trowse Jn, EA1013 Trowse Jn to Norwich.

martin2345uk · 12 May 2022

Yes exactly, so you could say 'right on X diagram we go over GW103, EA1010, EA1011', and you would just get a "mini WON" with speed restrictions and engineering arrangements for those sections only... especially handy where routes cross 2 or more of the "Regions" so have to read through 3 massive WONs!

Ken H · 12 May 2022

Bespoke WON's are a classic use for giving drivers a tablet. At the start of each journey he puts in his train number, and it loads a sheet with dtat about the journey. We discussed this on a thread about easing the driver training workload. Instead of relying in Mk1 brain, they would have the technology to give him the data when he needs it.

Railsigns · 12 May 2022

Bespoke WONs are produced - about 300 different ones each week.

D6130 · 12 May 2022

Railsigns said:
Bespoke WONs are produced - about 300 of them each week.

Yes....I don't know about other TOCs/FOCs, but Northern receive bespoke WONs for each of their drivers' depots covering only the routes worked by that particular depot.

martin2345uk · 12 May 2022

Ah so it's more of a "If the TOC/FOC wants to pay for it / can be bothered" then..? That makes more sense!

We have tablets, but just have the entire bloody WONs downloaded to them so have to still scroll through them to find the relevant bits.

zwk500 · 12 May 2022

martin2345uk said:
Ah so it's more of a "If the TOC/FOC wants to pay for it / can be bothered" then..? That makes more sense!

We have tablets, but just have the entire bloody WONs downloaded to them so have to still scroll through them to find the relevant bits.

I'm fairly sure there's an email address at the back of the WON that you can request bespoke WONs from.

4F89 · 12 May 2022

martin2345uk said:
Ah so it's more of a "If the TOC/FOC wants to pay for it / can be bothered" then..? That makes more sense!

We have tablets, but just have the entire bloody WONs downloaded to them so have to still scroll through them to find the relevant bits.

We do specific WONs. Just not for your routes.

Also, useless. With 37 ammendments and supplements, easier to wing it unless going into a T3.

skyhigh · 12 May 2022

D6130 said:
Yes....I don't know about other TOCs/Focs, but Northern receive bespoke WONs for each of their drivers' depots covering only the routes covered by that particular depot.

I honestly had no idea that this didn't happen at other TOCs. For depots such as Harrogate (who only sign one route) the WONs can be pretty consise!

306024 · 12 May 2022

Jim Jehosofat said:
Its a long while since I had anything to do with the WON, but the technology was certainly available at least 15 years ago to produce bespoke WONs. This was one of the reasons that the Anglia Route split their two main lines into smaller portions in the Sectional Appendix. The Great Eastern mainline, for example, used to be EA101 Liverpool Street to Norwich and was split into EA1010 Liverpool Street to Seven Kings, EA1011 Seven Kings to Ipswich, EA1012 Ipswich to Trowse Jn, EA1013 Trowse Jn to Norwich.

I remember it well! You do have to keep up with changes to infrastructure and drivers route knowledge though. c2c drivers used to sign to Seven Kings to be able to enter Ilford Car Sheds from either end. Now they sign to the 'new' Chadwell Heath reversing siding, meaning in theory they should get a WON that covers all the way to Ipswich. Wonder if they do?

TurboMan · 12 May 2022

D6130 said:
Yes....I don't know about other TOCs/Focs, but Northern receive bespoke WONs for each of their drivers' depots covering only the routes covered by that particular depot.

GWR do the same, a bespoke WON for each depot, but also an 'All GWR Routes' WON (incorporating the relevant parts from the Wales & West, Kent/Sussex/Wessex, and North Western WONs), available with and without Section B. The full WON for each route is also available. So there are about 17-18 to choose from.

martin2345uk · 12 May 2022

I suddenly feel like the kid whose parents couldn't afford to let him go on the school skiiing trip.

TurboMan · 12 May 2022

martin2345uk said:
I suddenly feel like the kid whose parents couldn't afford to let him go on the school skiiing trip.

08e29e1f80c4a923891222fa937e9307.450x429x1.jpg

OI! SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND LOOK AT MY WON!

snowball · 12 May 2022

The won is of course the unit of currency in Korea.

Surreytraveller · 13 May 2022

The WONs have different uses for different staff. The way its written for one person won't be suitable for the next. If you lay it out best for drivers, the signallers lives will be made more difficult. You cannot win

zwk500 · 13 May 2022

Surreytraveller said:
The WONs have different uses for different staff. The way its written for one person won't be suitable for the next. If you lay it out best for drivers, the signallers lives will be made more difficult. You cannot win

In this day and age, it's possible to have an electronic system store everything currently in the WON for the entire network and run a series of reports to output the same information in different formats depending on which end user the report is for.
There'd be general standard reports, and the ability for users to tailor the report to their needs, like you can get a PDF out of NESA with only certain LORs and Tables if you want. This would also avoid the situation where items are repeated across different WONs with different numbers and care has to be taken to avoid confusion.

Kneedown · 13 May 2022

When I worked on the local EMT routes I very rarely used to check the WONs. The slower speeds of the regional services meant you could acknowledge a TSR warning, shut off power, make a cuppa, and then put a little brake on and you'd still be down to the required speed well in advance. Since moving over to the Mainline side though, I find them essential reading. You have to put an uncomfortably large amount of brake on from 125mph to comply with some, so I check the WONs and make a note of the TSR on my diagram. That way I can get the brake on a little sooner, making for a much smoother deceleration. I do the same with ESRs in the late notice case. Section B also comes in handy for late nights or weekends, so you know if you are likely to be routed over the slow lines.

185 · 13 May 2022

The absolutely vital 241 page publication, in its physical printed format ensures a safe and functioning depot by wedging our messroom door open during summer.

But yeah, we do read the bits we have to.

martin2345uk · 13 May 2022

zwk500 said:
like you can get a PDF out of NESA with only certain LORs and Tables if you want.

Wasn’t aware of this, sounds very handy!

zwk500 · 13 May 2022

martin2345uk said:
Wasn’t aware of this, sounds very handy!

It's part of the 'Route Builder' function.

HSTEd · 13 May 2022

Isn't this one of the things where a driver information system that is fully integrated with the signalling system would be really useful?

The driver could be given a reminder of engineering work when and only when the train approaches it?

4F89 · 13 May 2022

HSTEd said:
Isn't this one of the things where a driver information system that is fully integrated with the signalling system would be really useful?

The driver could be given a reminder of engineering work when and only when the train approaches it?

Don't talk sensible!

Ashley Hill · 13 May 2022

At my TOC guards receive an electronic WON (or K2 if your old school). Whilst it saves paper it becomes a bind trying to find the few lines that are applicable to you amongst the rest whilst scrolling through it.

TurboMan · 13 May 2022

HSTEd said:
Isn't this one of the things where a driver information system that is fully integrated with the signalling system would be really useful?

The driver could be given a reminder of engineering work when and only when the train approaches it?

DAS (driver advisory system) can already do that for speed restrictions, if that's the sort of thing you mean.

a340egkk · 13 May 2022

My TOC has a specific traincrew version (albeit for all depots) which basically omits section B entirely and only keeps the relevant information from the other sections.

Peregrine 4903 · 13 May 2022

For us, Section B of the WON is by far the most useful and is vital to look at. The rest of it isn't directly relevant to my job specifically, but can make for interesting reading when if you get the chance or time.

martin2345uk · 14 May 2022

Peregrine 4903 said:
For us, Section B of the WON is by far the most useful and is vital to look at. The rest of it isn't directly relevant to my job specifically, but can make for interesting reading when if you get the chance or time.

Can I ask who "us" is? I'm guessing a company related to engineering works! :smile:

How useful are the WONs?

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