EMA scrapped

mumrar · 20 Jan 2011

So we've had the debate on tuition fees, now let's have one on EMA being withdrawn.

Labour MP Andy Burnham argued that EMA had seen the number of students staying on in further education rise from 47% in 1985 to 82% in 2011. I'm not sure how relevant EMA was to this, being introduced in 2004.

When I studied for an HND (I made my own choice to quit after 1yr) I had about £40 per week that I got through working and earning money for myself. I had to run a car as I travelled between Redditch and Cheltenham for the course, but was able to stay with family some nights more locally.

The systems of the last government seem to do nothing to instill a work ethic in to people and instead create a culture of entitlement. A poll of the University and College Union found 70% of pupils will drop out if EMA is withdrawn. Can they not try alternative means of raising funds first, or is it because money they believe they are entitled to has been taken away?

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43034 The Black Horse · 20 Jan 2011

EMA is to help learning (text books/pens/etc etc). A VERY small minority use it for that (~0% in my 6th form).

Students have no right to money from the Gov for going to school, it's wrong.

142094 · 20 Jan 2011

We already know that graduates from universities earn more than their counterparts that don't, over their working lifetimes. IMO the same will go for those who stay on in sixth form compared to those who leave after GCSEs (although clearly not as much more as graduates compared to non-graduates). So £30 per week is a good investment to get people to stay on who will probably earn more and pay more tax in the long run.

It will undoubtedly will hit the poorer students harder, as £30 can make the difference between being able to pay for transport/books or whatever else to go to sixt former or a college. Plus there aren't the jobs out there for people leaving after GCSEs, so all this will do is put more people on JSA.

me123 · 20 Jan 2011

I'm not a big fan of EMA. Whilst the idea is great (and, undoubtedly, there will be people who benefit from it), it doesn't work as it was meant to on the whole. Most people who receive this, in my experience, end up using education as an alternative to paid employment. As such, it keeps people in the classroom who really (with all due respect to them) shouldn't be there. And I'm sure we've all had these people in classes; they do nothing but disrupt everyone else.

If EMA were to stay on, I would support it but they would need to find a way of linking it to effort. If I turn up at work and do bugger all, they're going to sack me. But some people on EMA are turning up at school, doing nothing (aside from disrupting everyone else) and getting paid for it. They need to ensure that those who get EMA are turning up at school and putting the effort in to study. It may well have encouraged people to stay at school, but staying at school doesn't necessarily mean that you're achieving anything.

An alternative might be to allow more flexible curriculum in upper school. For those who aren't academically orientated, provide more practical classes/apprenticeships that will keep their interest and prepare them for their future jobs and careers. So, instead of turning up and sitting in Maths class where they aren't going to put any effort in, they can get a course in (say) construction, plumbing, car maintenance etc that would help them and is probably more likely to interest them.

Mojo · 20 Jan 2011

Good riddance.

Zoe · 20 Jan 2011

It may well have been a bribe to get people to stay in education until they are 18 but seeing as the school leaving age will soon be increasing to 18 it will no longer be needed.

yorksrob · 20 Jan 2011

I must admit, this came in after me and quite frankly I couldn't see the point of it then. Then again, I did stay on at the local school, any set texts were borrowed from school (although I can't remember using many, except perhaps for Eng Lit), and I lived at home, as I presume, do most sixth formers today, so frankly, in my case at least, it would have been a waste of money (beer money coming from saturday and holiday jobs).

At any rate, I don't much see the point of supporting students at a time when the education itself, and in most cases board is free, yet pulling out the rug during University when these things become very expensive indeed.

Do sixth formers tend to travel longer distances to college these days out of interest?

Oswyntail · 20 Jan 2011

In a predominantly middle class area like Ilkley, EMA was seen as pocket money, nothing to do with buying educational material. And the self-employed people with sharp accountants could work their assessments so that their kids got it. It also bribed some of those kids who could take no benefit from a sixth-form stint to stay on. Too much wrong with the thing for it to be worth it. Good riddance.

Zoe · 20 Jan 2011

Oswyntail said:
In a predominantly middle class area like Ilkley, EMA was seen as pocket money, nothing to do with buying educational material. And the self-employed people with sharp accountants could work their assessments so that their kids got it. It also bribed some of those kids who could take no benefit from a sixth-form stint to stay on. Too much wrong with the thing for it to be worth it. Good riddance.

EMA was means tested though so well children of rich parents wouldn't have been entitlesd to it. As for bribing, see my comment above, no bribe will be needed once the leaving age is increased to 18.

NXEA! · 20 Jan 2011

yorksrob said:
I must admit, this came in after me and quite frankly I couldn't see the point of it then. Then again, I did stay on at the local school, any set texts were borrowed from school (although I can't remember using many, except perhaps for Eng Lit), and I lived at home, as I presume, do most sixth formers today, so frankly, in my case at least, it would have been a waste of money (beer money coming from saturday and holiday jobs).

At any rate, I don't much see the point of supporting students at a time when the education itself, and in most cases board is free, yet pulling out the rug during University when these things become very expensive indeed.

Do sixth formers tend to travel longer distances to college these days out of interest?

See for me, EMA would've been useful to contribute towards my travel as I'm going to travel from Southend to Colchester and back everyday on the train. I know there are plenty of Sixth Forms in the Southend area, but I have my reasons. :lol:

ralphchadkirk · 20 Jan 2011

Personally I think EMA is a good idea. However, it does need to be more strictly regulated. Rather than giving cash I think it would be better if the Government gave vouchers redeemable for equipment, books, transport et cetera.
I go to sixth form college, and I don't get it. I don't need it; I can manage fine saving my own money and would prefer to.

@yorksrob - you were lucky then. I had to fork out over £100 for books this year.

yorksrob · 20 Jan 2011

ralphchadkirk said:
Personally I think EMA is a good idea. However, it does need to be more strictly regulated. Rather than giving cash I think it would be better if the Government gave vouchers redeemable for equipment, books, transport et cetera.
I go to sixth form college, and I don't get it. I don't need it; I can manage fine saving my own money and would prefer to.

@yorksrob - you were lucky then. I had to fork out over £100 for books this year.

In that case, it would be better for the school to provide the books so that they can be used by more than one student.

@ NXEA I'll leave it at that then :lol:

Oracle · 20 Jan 2011

My son got EMA when he was at college..it was a pain in the backside to process each week the lady at the college said. She had hundreds of students' cases to be reviewed each week. It relied on tutors doing their registers twice a day, and making sure that all students who were there were noted, and that the registers actually came through to her office. It was a fiasco week after week. Three lates in a week meant you did not qualify that week...and you had to be there more than 12 hours in a week. So, training days, Open Evenings etc. and snow days played havoc. However, the icing on the cake is that the lady's son was on EMA and she said that he blew it the day he got his money on booze etc. She did not know any students that her son was friends with that actually spent it on books, lunches, etc. Booze and fags and possibly petrol for the moped. It cost more that the amount paid out to administer.

Tom B · 20 Jan 2011

As an alternative, why not give all students :-

* free travel to/from college
* £x per annum in book tokens (for books/other bits/stationary that may be needed)

and then put £y per school (where y is proportional to the number of kids on FSM, as a simple measure) into a support fund, which the Head of 6th Form can use his discretion to give to needy students who can present a case for needing it (e.g. to cover the cost of a required field-trip, or some other occasional occurrence).

Ivo · 20 Jan 2011

I actually received £30 a week through this stupid system, but I constantly said it was a waste. My mother always used to say, "If I was receiving £30 a week to go to school I'd do it!" In practice though, you only needed it for materials and travel. The vast majority would have no need for assistance with these because their parents could afford to help; the few that couldn't (myself included) would usually receive travel benefit anyway.

Seen as I did not pay for travel (council bus pass owing to my mother's limited income, as opposed to concessionary bus pass these days), most of my EMA went on trading cards and a weekly kebab take-away. I don't think it was intended for that...

Greenback · 20 Jan 2011

me123 said:
I'm not a big fan of EMA. Whilst the idea is great (and, undoubtedly, there will be people who benefit from it), it doesn't work as it was meant to on the whole. Most people who receive this, in my experience, end up using education as an alternative to paid employment. As such, it keeps people in the classroom who really (with all due respect to them) shouldn't be there. And I'm sure we've all had these people in classes; they do nothing but disrupt everyone else.

If EMA were to stay on, I would support it but they would need to find a way of linking it to effort. If I turn up at work and do bugger all, they're going to sack me. But some people on EMA are turning up at school, doing nothing (aside from disrupting everyone else) and getting paid for it. They need to ensure that those who get EMA are turning up at school and putting the effort in to study. It may well have encouraged people to stay at school, but staying at school doesn't necessarily mean that you're achieving anything.

An alternative might be to allow more flexible curriculum in upper school. For those who aren't academically orientated, provide more practical classes/apprenticeships that will keep their interest and prepare them for their future jobs and careers. So, instead of turning up and sitting in Maths class where they aren't going to put any effort in, they can get a course in (say) construction, plumbing, car maintenance etc that would help them and is probably more likely to interest them.

You are spot on there mate. We need more courses based on practical work than some of the stuff that's being run now.

Tom B said:
As an alternative, why not give all students :-

* free travel to/from college
* £x per annum in book tokens (for books/other bits/stationary that may be needed)

and then put £y per school (where y is proportional to the number of kids on FSM, as a simple measure) into a support fund, which the Head of 6th Form can use his discretion to give to needy students who can present a case for needing it (e.g. to cover the cost of a required field-trip, or some other occasional occurrence).

That makes more sens than the crazy EMA system! Good riddance to that!

As I've said before about students in general, we need to decide what further and higher education is actually for. There's little point in bribing people to enrol on courses that they have little interest in, little aptitude for, and little practical use for in later life.

Zoe · 20 Jan 2011

Greenback said:
As I've said before about students in general, we need to decide what further and higher education is actually for. There's little point in bribing people to enrol on courses that they have little interest in, little aptitude for, and little practical use for in later life.

When the school leaving age is raised to 18 (I believe this will be in 2015) it will be compulsory to be enrolled in some form of education though. Do you still think it will be of little practical use when done by legislation rather than bribery?

Freakofnature · 20 Jan 2011

See, I'm all in favour of saving money, but as has been said the EMA itself was a bit of a joke.

Personally I only knew 5 people who were in receipt of it, and 3 of them are now in Cambridge/Oxford, and I don't think they would have found themselves there without the EMA.

Now the 6th form I went to, students don't recieve funding from the local transport executive to get to school, and money has to come out of the parents/students pockets and at peaktimes it was 2.95 to get to the bus station and then another 4.20 for an across the journey border!

Greenback · 20 Jan 2011

Zoe said:
When the school leaving age is raised to 18 (I believe this will be in 2015) it will be compulsory to be enrolled in some form of education though. Do you still think it will be of little practical use when done by legislation rather than bribery?

Ther eis little point either way. I imagine there are plenty of people who currently waste their time in school and will simply do so for an extra two years. if they turn up at all.

Tom B · 20 Jan 2011

Freakofnature said:
Now the 6th form I went to, students don't recieve funding from the local transport executive to get to school, and money has to come out of the parents/students pockets and at peaktimes it was 2.95 to get to the bus station and then another 4.20 for an across the journey border!

We had a similar mess in Doncaster whereby your need for subsidised transport was assessed on the distance to your nearest school/college - irrespective of whether that offered the subjects you wanted, or indeed if it was any good at all. If you wanted to go to another school, you paid your own fare - unless it was a religious one, in which case you got a free pass.

Chapeltom · 20 Jan 2011

I go to 6th Form in Stockport but travel from Derbyshire every day and I reckon they were 25% on it in the whole college. I don't get it, I have a job (working around 80 days a year) and instead prefer to fund my own education at 18, if I couldn't be bothered I wouldn't turn in. There is no incentive other than an overriding goal to succeed and that should be the same for everyone. I sympathise in some respects some people need it, but hang on, what about secondary school, not that much different.

I have a mate who spends his £30 on the bus and booze. He sits in the pub often enough, I go to the pub once a week if that. Having said that been sensible with money has insured I can probably fund booze, travel, hobbies and extras for another 6 months. I don't get EMA, my parents are not rich but I can survive.

I was SUCCESSFUL in stopping our bus fare rising from a flat pass for 13 weeks at £85 (works out £1.30 a day) to £4 without a discount bus pass which I didn't have. Its now £2 for all, still hefty increase for poorer buses with no heating and often colder than on the outside, but hey you can't win everything. £2 ain't bad for a 22 mile round trip though.

Matt Taylor · 21 Jan 2011

NXEA! said:
See for me, EMA would've been useful to contribute towards my travel as I'm going to travel from Southend to Colchester and back everyday on the train. I know there are plenty of Sixth Forms in the Southend area, but I have my reasons.

Which is another example of why EMA is being axed, in your case you would still have gone to College if EMA didn't exist but NXEA would have been deprived of farebox revenue.

37372 · 21 Jan 2011

EMA was quite useful when used for the right things, but unfortunately most people eligible for it round here spent it on alcohol and cigs.

TomJ93 · 21 Jan 2011

The problem is having divorced parent's automatically entitled you to the £30.

I know people who's parent's are wealthy, yet divorced, £30 a week spent on weed.

Your tax money hard at work there.

me123 · 21 Jan 2011

TomJ93 said:
The problem is having divorced parent's automatically entitled you to the £30.

I know people who's parent's are wealthy, yet divorced, £30 a week spent on weed.

Your tax money hard at work there.

It is totally ridiculous that having divorced parents automatically entitles you q whole range of benefits. I know SAAS (student funding in Scotland), for example, give you extra money if your parents are divorced. Interestingly, of all the people I know who qualify for this, none of them could be said to "need" it.

devon_metro · 21 Jan 2011

I spent a very very small portion of the EMA I received on what it is intended for. Much of it currently sits in my bank account.

mumrar · 21 Jan 2011

Now don't think I have a downer on students, but information published today seems to point the finger at further education being an easy way to avoid working. In 2010 697,351 people applied to go to Uni in Autumn 2010. Of those, 210,022 were unsuccessful due to limited places. So for 487,329 places, applications were over-subscribed by 43%.

It seems that the unique quality of a degree may become diluted due to the popularity of people studying for them.

yorksrob · 21 Jan 2011

mumrar said:
Now don't think I have a downer on students, but information published today seems to point the finger at further education being an easy way to avoid working. In 2010 697,351 people applied to go to Uni in Autumn 2010. Of those, 210,022 were unsuccessful due to limited places. So for 487,329 places, applications were over-subscribed by 43%.

It seems that the unique quality of a degree may become diluted due to the popularity of people studying for them.

Although to be fair, it may be that the economic outlook is so rubbish at the moment people are more inclined to try higher education where they may have attempted previously to go straight into paid employment.

anthony263 · 21 Jan 2011

Had ema while i was in 6th form. Must admit it was more trouble than it was worth. I spent a lot of time on the phone because i hadn't been paid and was told i had missed a day of school even though i had 100% attendance.

Whilst it may be a good idea in theory i dont think it worked to well praticularyas i know a lot of people in the 6th with me who had problems. That said the student loans i get while at uni now isnt much better. I was paid late this year

Drsatan · 21 Jan 2011

I think EMA was a good idea in theory but badly administered in practice. I received EMA when I was at college but although anyone who received EMA was supposed to receive a 'learning agreement' which would say how many lessons they'd have to attend in order to receive EMA, I never did, yet I still received EMA. So I could have skipped most lessons and still would have got £20 a week from the government!

As for the argument that it's supposed to subsidise transport costs: I discovered it was cheaper to buy a termly bus pass than to buy a return ticket each day, EMA wouldn't have been much use for that unless I wanted to waste money by buying a bus ticket each day.

EMA scrapped

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