Thameslink will never run to corby. There was talk about it a couple of years ago I'm sure route learning was part of the 5 year pay deal but... they have to protect the paths through the core. By doing the extra 20 miles from Bedford to corby any delays could have massive repercussions on timings through the core.
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EMR Class 360's
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fgwrich
Established Member
Theoretically, would a TSGN operated Corby service have to run through the Core though? Surely, as Great Northern operate Peterborough - Kings Cross, a Thameslink / TSGN Corby service could have gone into St Pancras high level platforms?
Back to the original topic, nothing in RTT yet for any Cricklewood / Eastleigh changeovers yet.
D_MTrains
Member
This is an off-topic question, and I apologise for switching the subject for a moment.
Do the class 360s run at 110mph in passenger service? If yes is there any proof of this? Someone I know was arguing that they do not and they claim that they have not all been to Northampton for 110 mods yet. I do not think this is correct but I will be gladly proved wrong. Thanks.
Do the class 360s run at 110mph in passenger service? If yes is there any proof of this? Someone I know was arguing that they do not and they claim that they have not all been to Northampton for 110 mods yet. I do not think this is correct but I will be gladly proved wrong. Thanks.
59CosG95
Established Member
They were all modded during the latter half of 2020 IIRC.
I'm pretty sure the stretch between Wellingborough and Bedford contains some 110 mph running. I know that EMU's on the Bedford to St Pancras section are restricted to 100 mph maximum though.
Guess we need someone to ride with a speed app on their phone to find out the actual speed.
Don't think there's much in it though. For example, St Pancras to Kettering Northbound the 360's do it in a hour including all stops.
The 222.s and 180's do it in 46-52 mins, but they stop less.
bramling
Veteran Member
It would depend on how any such service was set up.
If Corby was going to be an extension of existing Thameslink Bedford services, then yes they would run through the core. The small number of 700/1 units required ought to be available by virtue of some peak services still not having been restored.
On the other hand, if we're suggesting that Corby could become a GTR service but retaining the existing paths, then where are the 700s going to come from? In theory the 8x captive GN 700/0s could be redeployed (albeit with some issues to work through such as how units get to Hornsey for maintenance), but what 16x 4-car units are going to backfill them?
D_MTrains
Member
I did try to use a GPS speedometer on my phone to figure out if they run at 110 between WEL and BDM, but the signal is so poor to the point that it didn’t work. Hence why I’ve asked here, but I am almost certain it is 110 running.
110 running on the up and down fast from Wellingborough south junc to Bedford. Max 100 every where else if permissible. Overhead improvement work is being rolled out to increase fast line max speed running with AC traction to allow 810s the higher permissable HST speeds when running on OHLE thus hopefully 360s will have 110 clearance where the line currently allows these speeds for non HST cleared stock. Don't know the time scales but currently lots of works going on which looks like more feeder stations from the grid. Then they will need to up wire tension and some of the older structures will need work. Spotted the DATs coaches back at LIP last week maybe getting ready for some testing?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
No reason in principle why GTR shouldn't operate the 360s out of St Pancras high level, although I'm not really sure what problem that would solve.
Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in this thread (or perhaps the MML Electrification updates thread) the 360s are/will be (depending on OLE) cleared for HST speeds because of their enhanced braking profile. Also the places where switchgear has recently been erected (Napsbury / East Hyde) are there for sectioning purposes; no grid connections.
Kneedown
Established Member
All of our 360's have been modified to run at 110mph. The giveaway at a glance is the white speedometer in the cab, which replaced the black, 100mph max one.
110mph is permitted between Kettering and Bedford, and from there to London a 100mph maximum is in place until such time as the OHLE is upgraded to support higher speeds.
I knew it was 110 between Wellingborough and Bedford , but I was told that it's only 100 between Kettering and Wellingborough, although as you know they come back on the slow from ket to wel .
Yep. 100/110 HST on the fasts.
And of course a little 120 HST on the up fast too
D_MTrains
Member
Ah very nice, thank you for your response! That’s exactly what I thought, but the other person seemed to insist that it wasn’t the case.
What isn't the case
D_MTrains
Member
They claimed that that 360s are not all modified for 110, and that they do not run at that speed at all in service, pointing to RTT where it says in small letter “pathed as 360 at 100mph”.
And of course a little 120 HST on the up fast too
That too (I was just testing, to see if you remembered it
).Whoever he is he’s talking absolute rubbish. The timing figures remain at 100 because, as mentioned, the 360s can only run at >100 on the fasts between Wellingborough and Bedford, so it makes a negligible difference to the overall journey.
However all of the units are now capable of 110 and on a normal run will achieve it north of Bedford.
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They were modified around 2 years ago at Northampton - the pantograph is a good indicator of this as it has the “3 straight lines” instead of the “curved end” on the heads.
I have to admire the simple highly practical way in which the change having been done was communicated to drivers
I'm absolutely appalled at the Class 360 introduction on EMR, these units have completely fell from grace and almost nothing has gone to plan since transfer to the MML.
Using Northampton as the heavy maintenance depot which requires complex long distance diesel haulage taking them back to GA (via Stratford!) always struck me as a disaster waiting to happen. I wasn't wrong.
I've never understood why Hornsey could not maintain them. There is still an overlay of colour light (TPWS) in St Pancras Low Level, get the 360s route cleared and reverse them at SPILL overnight via Canal Tunnels to Hornsey EMUD. Own power maintenance moves at 02:00 in the morning when Thameslink isn't running.
Using Northampton as the heavy maintenance depot which requires complex long distance diesel haulage taking them back to GA (via Stratford!) always struck me as a disaster waiting to happen. I wasn't wrong.
I've never understood why Hornsey could not maintain them. There is still an overlay of colour light (TPWS) in St Pancras Low Level, get the 360s route cleared and reverse them at SPILL overnight via Canal Tunnels to Hornsey EMUD. Own power maintenance moves at 02:00 in the morning when Thameslink isn't running.
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Trainbike46
Established Member
What route do the units take to get to Northampton? and how does that go via stratford? that seems like the wrong direction!
Cricklewood (MML) - South Tottenham - Stratford - Camden Road - Northampton (WCML).
GBRf contracted using Class 47 diesel haulage to Siemens Kings Heath TMD for heavy maintenance. Talk about 'round the houses'...
It's been posted before, but it's something like MML > North London Line (NLL) east towards Stratford where it gets looped around and back along the NLL and then up the West Coast Mainline to Northampton.
There are simpler routes, *but* they would require a run-around e.g. if they went via the Marston Vale, the loco on the front would be facing south at Bletchley and need to run around to access Northampton.
Similarly access to Kings Heath (Northampton) is only from the south, so running a route via Leicester and Nuneaton doesn't work because a run-around would be needed at Northampton.
That said, if they could be run top & tail then theoretically they could run via the Marston Vale.
It should be said not all moves have been from Kettering or Bedford - some have been from Cricklewood at which point the route around North London does make a bit more sense.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If they're diesel loco hauled why not via Bletchley? That's a heck of a way round.
Trainbike46
Established Member
Could you not diesel haul them across the marston vale, and then continue up to northampton under the unit's own power? that way the loco wouldn't have to run round
Regardless, it does sound less than ideal having to go so far for heavy maintenance
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Presumably would need a second crew ? And I doubt EMR crews are cleared to drive Bletchley to Kings Heath.
Was on the 19.15 from St Pancras today. Just north of Radlett it came to a sudden stop, smooth, but heavier than normal.
After a wait of about 10 minutes the guard announced that somebody had "pulled the emergency chord and we'll try and make up time"
Arrived at Kettering about 5 mins late, so a decent run after the incident.
Noticed more 8 cars units today as well.
After a wait of about 10 minutes the guard announced that somebody had "pulled the emergency chord and we'll try and make up time"
Arrived at Kettering about 5 mins late, so a decent run after the incident.
Noticed more 8 cars units today as well.