• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Signalling Connections to ROCs

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,838
Is there any listing of signalling transfer to ROCs available ?
Macclesfield transfers into Manchester next year. New St into WMSC over Christmas. Gloucester goes sometime in 2024. Crewe Independent lines in 2024 I think. Cambridge will be ongoing. Kingmoor in 2025. Victoria and Feltham going on as well.
 

jamess

Member
Joined
24 Jul 2011
Messages
80
Crewe independents was down for 2023

 

TheBigD

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2008
Messages
1,991
The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.
Is Cambridge going to be a ROC then?

I only ask because it’s always difficult to pin down the intended number and locations of ROCs in the end state.
There’s now a permanent Tyneside ROC for instance.
 
Last edited:

TheBigD

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2008
Messages
1,991
Is Cambridge going to be a ROC then?

I only ask because it’s always difficult to pin down the intended number and locations of ROCs in the end state.
There’s now a permanent Tyneside ROC for instance.
Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,446
Location
London
There was a discussion not long back about this:

 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.
As part of NR's revised resignalling strategy, several medium sized (P)SBs will be kept long-term. Many being expanded to incorporate closed local boxes, as at Cambridge.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
Clearly not, since the initials would then be RCC.

ROC stands for Rail Operating Centre.
Sorry my mistake I meant to write Regional Operating Centre. It was just the “R“ meaning I was asking about, I’ll amend my post to reduce my confusion… :oops:
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,838
Has that been recently delayed? (I have it as August Bank Holiday weekend this year on a Network Rail document I saw back in April)

MARK
Nope, you are right, its this year. It all melts into one sometimes...
Crewe independents was down for 2023

No chance.
 

a good off

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2010
Messages
326
Location
Control Room
The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.
That would be the perfect time to double Soham to the Dock, or at least put the passive interlocking in for it.
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,753
Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.
Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,674
Location
Leeds
Presumably, given devolution within Network Rail, it's now for each NR region to decide how far it wishes to go with the original ROC programme?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)
As discussed in the other linked thread, Tyneside was just, (last Christmas), re-designated as a “ROC“ but there seems nothing obvious to indicate there’s a subsidiary relationship to York. I suppose in any big area the ROC with the TOC control staff embedded is presumably the top of the tree, but might there be a step back from the TOCs centralising control as well?
 
Last edited:

headshot119

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2010
Messages
2,052
Location
Dubai
Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)

Not sure if Cambridge is a Sub-ROC as such, York ROC has several Sub-ROCs in it (South / Kings Cross whatever it's called this day of the week, Leeds (Former York IECC area), and Sheffield, but they're all in the same building.

Sandhills was recently given signs outside which say it's a ROC.
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,753
Not sure if Cambridge is a Sub-ROC as such, York ROC has several Sub-ROCs in it (South / Kings Cross whatever it's called this day of the week, Leeds (Former York IECC area), and Sheffield, but they're all in the same building.

Sandhills was recently given signs outside which say it's a ROC.
One thing is for sure though Colchester / Cambridge and maybe Liverpool Street will not be squeezing into Romford ! :)
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
One thing is for sure though Colchester / Cambridge and maybe Liverpool Street will not be squeezing into Romford ! :)
It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them… o_O
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,446
Location
London
It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them… o_O

Romford ROC definitely has some spare space. However it is only 3 floors high. But yes I doubt everything can fit in!
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,753
Romford ROC definitely has some spare space. However it is only 3 floors high. But yes I doubt everything can fit in!
Isn't that for Upminster Box to go into......one day (year) ?
Think they were advised at the time of planning.....too small and more importantly...wrong place !
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,446
Location
London
Isn't that for Upminster Box to go into......one day (year) ?
Think they were advised at the time of planning.....too small and more importantly...wrong place !

Yes I think you're correct, certainly a smaller box anyway.
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,331
It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them… o_O

I've always pondered whether the assumptions over signaller workload, and thus how large an area can be controlled by one workstation, is where this has been proved unworkable.
 

TheBigD

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2008
Messages
1,991
It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them… o_O
Signaller workload has massively increased. Many more crossings with phones, significantly more line blockages now that red zone working has largely been eliminated, changes to CCTV crossing operation, etc etc. Some existing powerboxes have seen panels sit to reduce the workload, or crossings transferred to a new crossings panel.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,674
Location
Leeds
having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs
I think at its minimum (after the decision to drop Edinburgh) it got as low as 11, but it now seems likely that the number of controlling centres, whether or not officially counted as ROCs, will remain much higher for the next few decades.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
I've always pondered whether the assumptions over signaller workload, and thus how large an area can be controlled by one workstation, is where this has been proved unworkable.
Maybe they didn‘t predict just how many in number and how large the flat screens in front of each signaller position would be. As the price of tech comes down it probably makes sense to have much bigger detailed displays as well.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
Few ROCs are in the right place!!
A number of them do seem to be in rather bizarre locations. For example Manchester ROC being next to Ashburys station rather than Piccadilly, and West Mids SC being at Saltley rather than New Street or Rugby.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top