"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

102 fan said:

Is there a booster due? That's usually the reason for scare stories.

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I'm waiting for my second booster, not sure when it's "due" but had my first boost in November, so over 6 months. Thing is, I haven't heard a thing as to whether non-vulnerable people can go for their second booster?

Would make sense to get it into the population's arms before autumn begins.

Bayum said:

We’re not at a point where anyone other than China and North Korea feel it’s necessary to introduce further restrictions with the advent of immunisation and IV antibody infusions.

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And we should never have been at such a point where those restrictions were considered remotely necessary.

You’ve been consistently pro lockdowns and pro restrictions throughout the past two years. Now you’re piping up again because you’re annoyed that it’s over.

Tough! Write to your MP?

Mikw said:

And yet, the right wingers in the conservative party pushed through the loss of freedom of movement and the crime and policing bill with draconian policies on the right to protest.

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Isn’t it time you got over Brexit? It was years ago now.

As an avowed leaver I’d happily vote for it again. The reaction from those who still aren’t over it was a great motivation to do so, all political considerations aside!

Howardh said:

I'm waiting for my second booster, not sure when it's "due" but had my first boost in November, so over 6 months. Thing is, I haven't heard a thing as to whether non-vulnerable people can go for their second booster?

Would make sense to get it into the population's arms before autumn begins.

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Ask your GP what's going on with it.

yorksrob said:

Ask your GP what's going on with it.

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That's if you can get hold of them!

Bayum said:

And I see the hard right (as far as COVID is concerned) back on the front burners on RailForums.

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How is it (only) the hard right? Please clarify because you are using it like a very broad brush.

Howardh said:

I'm waiting for my second booster, not sure when it's "due" but had my first boost in November, so over 6 months. Thing is, I haven't heard a thing as to whether non-vulnerable people can go for their second booster?

Would make sense to get it into the population's arms before autumn begins.

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My (mid 60s) dad is still waiting for an NHS heart scan for his newly discovered irregular heartbeat… To the point where I’m now urging him to just get it done privately which he’s fortunately easily able to afford.

What if he couldn’t?! I guess the NHS is too preoccupied by pumping irrelevant injections into paranoid geriatrics to deliver proper healthcare….

Howardh said:

I'm waiting for my second booster, not sure when it's "due" but had my first boost in November, so over 6 months. Thing is, I haven't heard a thing as to whether non-vulnerable people can go for their second booster?

Would make sense to get it into the population's arms before autumn begins.

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The natural infection will boost your immune system.

43066 said:

And we should never have been at such a point where those restrictions were considered remotely necessary.

You’ve been consistently pro lockdowns and pro restrictions throughout the past two years. Now you’re piping up again because you’re annoyed that it’s over.

Tough! Write to your MP?

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Where have I said I’m annoyed about it? 18 months of shielding I was far from happy with the situation but recognised it was needed at the time.

Yew said:

Does this imply that there is a hard-left, which wants to seize the means of (virus) (re)production?

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Apparently so if you read some of the comments where people seem to believe that there’s a militant group of people that want to go back to lockdown again!

yorkie said:

Did you read my posts? I have not tried to say there is not a rise in infections. You have completely missed my point.

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No, but you then imply that the Zoe study is less effective/trustworthy because it’s based on patient-reported symptoms and leave out any ONS data obtained from laboratory sampling, which is slightly harder to dismiss.

43066 said:

And we should never have been at such a point where those restrictions were considered remotely necessary.

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And your solution in having no lockdown at all is (was) what?

43066 said:

Isn’t it time you got over Brexit? It was years ago now.

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The deprivation of my right to work in the EU is not "years ago", it is still the present state of affairs.

Bayum said:

And your solution in having no lockdown at all is (was) what?

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Sweden did rather well without a lockdown (or masks or much of the other nonsense). No excess death (at all!) over the last two years, less damage to the economy, children in school throughout, less damage to the physical and mental health of the population. Their 'experiment' was a success (although actually they followed general pandemic management principles that had been known about for decades, the rest of us were the 'experiment', and we can increasingly see how badly that failed).

Bayum said:

Where have I said I’m annoyed about it? 18 months of shielding I was far from happy with the situation but recognised it was needed at the time.

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That was more me telling you that I’m annoyed by what’s happened.

You’re not the only person whose “shielded”. The clinically vulnerable people I know who acquiesced to the nonsense have been far more badly affected mental health wise than those who didn’t…

Yew said:

The deprivation of my right to work in the EU is not "years ago", it is still the present state of affairs.

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Yes it is. But you’re still free to go and work abroad if you’re able to show you’re worth it to that country - why should that ability be an inalienable right for anyone?

You should also view the Brexit vote as an expression of my “right” to not see the country my grandfathers fought for, and my great great grandfather copped a bullet for on the Somme, to be subsumed into some bloated, failed European political superstate, with “ever closer union” mentioned in the preamble to the Treaty of Rome.

It’s fundamental to me. I’ll vote accordingly and would pick up a rifle to defend it…

It’s utterly visceral (which is perhaps where remainers misunderstand the motivations of leavers?).

Bayum said:

Where have I said I’m annoyed about it? 18 months of shielding I was far from happy with the situation but recognised it was needed at the time.

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I still don't understand what your argument is; we are talking about what happens now and in the future.

Bayum said:

Apparently so if you read some of the comments where people seem to believe that there’s a militant group of people that want to go back to lockdown again!

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There are a militant group of people who want restrictions to return.

Bayum said:

No, but you then imply that the Zoe study is less effective/trustworthy because it’s based on patient-reported symptoms and leave out any ONS data obtained from laboratory sampling, which is slightly harder to dismiss.

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I didn't say it was less effective (whatever you mean by that) or trustworthy but I was pointing out that many more cases are either asymptomatic or see extremely mild cases; you missed the entire point I was making.

Bayum said:

And your solution in having no lockdown at all is (was) what?

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This thread is about now and the future; we can rule out further lockdowns.

There is no "solution" needed going forward; the solution was to vaccinate people and we achieved that, so it's now time to go about our normal lives (unless any individual chooses to restrict themselves; they are free to do so).

The only thing we may want to do differently is give boosters, as appropriate, to vulnerable people, in the same way we would do for 'flu.

yorkie said:

I still don't understand what your argument is

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Why are you still wasting your breath?

He doesn’t have any cogent nor interesting argument. It’s like trying to argue with a wet paper bag. It’ll just keep wrapping itself around you until you finally lose patience and set fire to it.

yorkie said:

There is no "solution" needed going forward; the solution was to vaccinate people and we achieved that, so it's now time to go about our normal lives (unless any individual chooses to restrict themselves; they are free to do so).

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I think it’s time for everyone to move on from it…

43066 said:

I think it’s time for everyone to move on from it…

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Really that time came once all the vulnerable groups had completed their vaccinations.

We *need* to move on, and we simply cannot have this situation where there’s a (small but vocal) contingent of people who want to cling on - which seems to boil down to either political ideology, a few who still feel they can score some virtue-signalling points out of this, or those who have their own self-oriented agenda like hoping to force lifestyle changes off the back of it.

Alas we still have a guy at work who wants to “punch anyone I see not wearing a mask”, and who is now off work with stress as a result, neatly coinciding with a further summer. And <sigh> I bet my place will see the self-same people magically get Covid symptoms in the day or two before Christmas…

yorksrob said:

Thats the media for you !

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Exactly but let’s not question the media and their own motives but let’s take them as face value.

MikeWM said:

Sweden did rather well without a lockdown (or masks or much of the other nonsense). No excess death (at all!) over the last two years, less damage to the economy, children in school throughout, less damage to the physical and mental health of the population. Their 'experiment' was a success (although actually they followed general pandemic management principles that had been known about for decades, the rest of us were the 'experiment', and we can increasingly see how badly that failed).

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Yes yes we get all that. But Sweden bad. Do keep up!

yorksrob said:

Ask your GP what's going on with it.

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gabrielhj07 said:

That's if you can get hold of them!

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Indeed!

You might wish to express your view that Covid "doesn't exist " to the families and friends of those who passed away during the pandemic...and to the NHS staff who had to deal with the effects on patients.

I fail to see how a reported rise in infections can be classed as "scaremongering " or inducing fear, or indeed any term which is intended to negate a virus which has not simply disappeared as a result of vaccines being developed to counteract it.

I recently had day op surgery. Before I could even get past the ward admissions desk, I had to have an LFT. After that, included in the "what could go wrong " overview the possibility of contracting Covid was mentioned.

All the medical staff throughout the hospital wore masks but, it was noticeable how many visitors / patients seen walking in the corridors didn't. I am one of a seemingly dwindling number who still, and will continue to, wear one in supermarkets / shops and indeed anywhere that it is prudent to do so.

Lost property said:

You might wish to express your view that Covid "doesn't exist " to the families and friends of those who passed away during the pandemic...and to the NHS staff who had to deal with the effects on patients.

I fail to see how a reported rise in infections can be classed as "scaremongering " or inducing fear, or indeed any term which is intended to negate a virus which has not simply disappeared as a result of vaccines being developed to counteract it.

I recently had day op surgery. Before I could even get past the ward admissions desk, I had to have an LFT. After that, included in the "what could go wrong " overview the possibility of contracting Covid was mentioned.

All the medical staff throughout the hospital wore masks but, it was noticeable how many visitors / patients seen walking in the corridors didn't. I am one of a seemingly dwindling number who still, and will continue to, wear one in supermarkets / shops and indeed anywhere that it is prudent to do so.

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Who is saying COVID doesn't exist?

And when will people prioritising COVID over everything else start to think about families losing people from preventable cancer deaths due to delayed diagnosis, or families who lost loved ones through suicide due to mental health issues, and a myriad of other things?

In the last seven weeks there have been 5000 excess deaths above average that haven't been attributed to COVID.

COVID is not the only show in town, and deaths from other causes are just as upsetting and tragic as COVID deaths. And unfortunately dealing with the deaths of loved ones is part of life, as brutal as that is. And the media scaring people into not living their life to the full, or even potentially affecting their health, really isn't helping.

Edit: Deaths In private homes are 24% above average. That isn't COVID.

As COVID is now endemic in the UK (and indeed around most of the world) there are bound to be periods where cases are rising from time to time, just like any other infectious disease.

Merely reporting the fact that cases are rising is not in itself scaremongering, but it does become scaremongering if the potential rise in cases is exaggerated, or the papers evoke the possibility of new restrictions unecessarily.

I think the possibility of new restrictions this winter is vanishingly remote, because people have had enough of them, and the economic consequences (eg staff shortages at airports) are becoming more apparent day by day.

Even the United States is dropping its requirement for a negative COVID test as a condition of entry from tomorrow, which shows that we are gradually getting back to a pre 2020 normal.

Lost property said:

You might wish to express your view that Covid "doesn't exist " to the families and friends of those who passed away during the pandemic...and to the NHS staff who had to deal with the effects on patients.

I fail to see how a reported rise in infections can be classed as "scaremongering " or inducing fear, or indeed any term which is intended to negate a virus which has not simply disappeared as a result of vaccines being developed to counteract it.

I recently had day op surgery. Before I could even get past the ward admissions desk, I had to have an LFT. After that, included in the "what could go wrong " overview the possibility of contracting Covid was mentioned.

All the medical staff throughout the hospital wore masks but, it was noticeable how many visitors / patients seen walking in the corridors didn't. I am one of a seemingly dwindling number who still, and will continue to, wear one in supermarkets / shops and indeed anywhere that it is prudent to do so.

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I find the biggest irony in all this is people like myself who wore masks all the time yet people on TV (TV studios ie presenters) and our politicians didn’t need to wear one but at least they can get away with it whilst I couldn’t. I work in a care setting ( non NHS) but how do you think I felt? I caught COVID and triple vaccinated but over time I have realised and if I’m honest being played.

I remember the clap at 8pm on a Thursday was for NHS only to then include us as we had been excluded, but the way the governments acted they couldn’t give a toss (I’ll say this as a view in Scotland - given £500 (not even that) to be then be whacked back in owing tax back from this is a disgrace), I didn’t want it either it felt like votes/bribery.

As to me for the media perspective they’ll take sides and then throw people under it (seems clear that no one sees this part from me, yet I said this from the outset when this started), oh boy aren’t the chickens coming home to roost now?


One final thing: Long COVID, I mentioned I caught COVID back in summer 2020 - strange for me as I hear this phrase is quite popular for those that caught it most recently to those that had originally got it back in the spring/summer of 2020, I now hear of long COVID from “waves/variants” that were spoken about in media circles, so what about me? I feel like the first ones that caught it are completely under the radar and have been left abandoned by it all but I guess no one cares? (but under the same breath as I just state above the media and the like seem to care about those that got it more recent to those that had it prior), as for myself I can’t even see a doctor to even get a diagnosis let alone trying to find out if I’m autistic since that’s been pushed back prior to COVID (and I am still waiting), so even then I ask where is my support in this? Zero zilch nada!

Just to add I am someone that’s at this stage now I want to get on in life, I know COVID is around but so is the cold and flu but I get on and fight on but I am so tired on how this is being played up by our media and politicians - as I say they come across they “care” but clearly they don’t but all it’s to them is we are just numbers our lives don’t matter to them it’s all about clickbaiting and nothing more, I wish people would see this but clearly people are that gullible to believe that politicians and media care .. they don’t and as I said I am just a number to them - people die all the time and are just number, stop feeding and believing the trolls of our politicians and media!

Lost property said:

You might wish to express your view that Covid "doesn't exist " to the families and friends of those who passed away during the pandemic...and to the NHS staff who had to deal with the effects on patients.

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Quotation marks around a phrase that hasn't been used by anyone on this forum. Interesting move.

roversfan2001 said:

Quotation marks around a phrase that hasn't been used by anyone on this forum. Interesting move.

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Yep, straight to the straw man!

43066 said:

And we should never have been at such a point where those restrictions were considered remotely necessary.

You’ve been consistently pro lockdowns and pro restrictions throughout the past two years. Now you’re piping up again because you’re annoyed that it’s over.

Tough! Write to your MP?



Isn’t it time you got over Brexit? It was years ago now.

As an avowed leaver I’d happily vote for it again. The reaction from those who still aren’t over it was a great motivation to do so, all political considerations aside!

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I'm not talking about Brexit. Just that by making sentences so long for protests that the home secretary considers as "causing annoyance" (longer than attempted rape) is hardly conducive to "freedom loving". It isn't.

When we look at protests throughout history, leading to better rights, reductions in fuel duty, scrappage of the poll tax, women's votes e.t.c. Passing draconian rules to put protesters in jail for literally years, is a dangerous path to tread. And the curtailing - and celebration - of the loss of freedom of movement is again contrary to being free.

So, if you don't like it, you can't leave, and you can't protest.

Yet, it's the "left" (whatever that is) that gets labelled as being "anti-freedom" when - in reality recently - it's the definitely not left leaning Conservative party that's got hardline.

DustyBin said:

I don't think that's really fair. The vast majority of us on the (covid) "hard right" as you put it simply want to live normally, free from restrictions and excessive state interference in our everyday lives. There is however undoubtedly a contingent on the far left, including the individuals @yorkie refers to in his post, that is hell bent on preventing this and will misrepresent data or simply lie in order to derail the return to normal. They're the ones trying to impose their ideology on others whereas I'd simply like to be left alone to get on with my life. What's (covid) "hard right" about that?

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I agree that it's unfair and unreasonable to be labelled "hard right" because you are sceptical about the line that we have to continue to live in fear of Covid in mid-2022 and beyond. Covid is, from what I can make out, no longer dangerous for most people and the effects of continuing the "fear" line are arguably going to be worse than the side-effects of getting back to normal.

Mikw said:

Just that by making sentences so long for protests that the home secretary considers as "causing annoyance" (longer than attempted rape) is hardly conducive to "freedom loving".

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It'll be fine, the criminal justice system (police, courts, prosecutors, defenders, etc) is so close to collapsing due to chronic under funding by successive Tory Governments that soon no criminals, be they rapists or protesters for or against Covid restrictions, will actually be able to be convicted before they drop dead of old age anyway. Still though, they'll bleat on about how they're "tough on crime" when legislation is passed to ensure that the maximum sentence for a protest causing annoyance is a life sentence.

roversfan2001 said:

Quotation marks around a phrase that hasn't been used by anyone on this forum. Interesting move.

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Not the exact phrase, but see post #30.

It's high time those who have not already done so start living their lives as though covid did not exist, because for all intents and purposes it doesn't.

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Ediswan said:

Not the exact phrase, but see post #30.

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Note “for all intents and purposes”. Obviously it does exist, but not anymore in such a way as to disrupt normal life.

Ediswan said:

Not the exact phrase, but see post #30.

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A better way of putting it, which is what I think was originally meant is

"...It's high time those who have not already done so start living their lives as though COVID is no longer a serious threat to public health, because for all intents and purposes it isn't...."

duncanp said:

A better way of putting it, which is what I think was originally meant is

"...It's high time those who have not already done so start living their lives as though COVID is no longer a serious threat to public health, because for all intents and purposes it isn't...."

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I would certainly agree with this.