DustyBin
Established Member
So by your own admission both maskless and masked people could spread covid to masked people, therefore what was/is the point of masks?
I’m not trying to be a clever so-and-so but think about what you just typed……
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"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering
- Thread starter yorkie
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So by your own admission both maskless and masked people could spread covid to masked people, therefore what was/is the point of masks?
I’m not trying to be a clever so-and-so but think about what you just typed……
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This makes no sense; anyone wearing a flimsy, loose fitting mask (of the type typically worn to comply with mandates) is going to be spreading Sars-CoV-2 particles, and anyone wearing such a mask is going to be inhaling Sars-CoV-2 particles.
Anyone who, for whatever reason, wants (or wanted) to delay their exposure to Sars-CoV-2, can wear a tight fitting FFP3 mask (respirator) for very good protection. However unless they withdraw from public life and do not have close contact with any other person, they are merely delaying an infection rather than preventing it.
Do you want to understand all types of fears, or just this specific one, for some reason?
Most people I see wearing masks are wearing flimsy loose fitting masks, which are no good for anything other than virtue signalling purposes and their masks can often be found under their chins making it even more pointless.
I very rarely see anyone wearing tight fitting masks (respirators) which are of the sort that would be worn by someone genuinely wanting to prevent exposure to viruses.
Anyone who is immunocompromised is still going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2, along with the many other viruses in common circulation; wearing a respirator now may successfully delay an exposure until the winter, but I can't really see the benefit of that personally, but if they're misguided enough to want to do that, fair enough. They are a tiny proportion of the population and vaccines are still effective in that group.
Indeed, it makes no sense. I don't think an explanation is going to be forthcoming, though.
What you have added makes no sense and you've been questioned on it; if you choose not to answer the questions that is entirely your prerogative, but it harms your case.
Do you want to learn about all fears, or just this particular one? If the latter, is there any particular reason?
Eyersey468
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@SynthD I am not frightened of masks per se, though I do not consider them a natural thing to be wearing, if nature had intended for us to wear them we would have evolved with a mask over our faces. They also serve to me as a reminder of the last 2 years and the absolutely appalling messaging and cruel restrictions that were imposed on us by people who couldn't even be bothered to try and follow their own rules.
DustyBin
Established Member
“Fear” of masks is often the result of finding them incredibly uncomfortable/unpleasant to wear. Some people find them physically uncomfortable, for others it’s psychological and may be connected to a previous distressing experience. When masks are mandated it leaves such people with a choice; endure the physical and/or psychological discomfort of wearing one, or don’t wear one and risk being confronted. You need to understand that the latter can seriously affect some people, especially when there’s a widespread erroneous belief that they pose some kind of threat to others (as you yourself have previously suggested……).
Personally I just find masks uncomfortable so I chose not to wear one (I tried initially). I purchased a sunflower wrist band although I was only ever once challenged, and a quick flash of that settled the matter. In addition I do find the sight of masks rather depressing and dystopian as they’re a visual reminder of a thoroughly unpleasant couple of years.
Hopefully the above explanation (which is very generalised) helps your understanding.
gabrielhj07
Member
Not really sure about this one, do you wear shoes, per chance?
GC class B1
Member
I am disturbed to see people wearing cloth face coverings for two reasons. One is the fact that these people have been mislead into thinking that they reduce the risk of getting COVID and it reminds me of the gullibility and misplaced trust these people have as a result of the disgraceful action of the government and some experts. The second issue is that people wearing black face coverings appear to me to be hiding something as I can’t see their faces. As there is no good reason to wear these face coverings I have to consciously dismiss the feeling that they have some ulterior motive in covering their faces.
Mask wearing also signifies that we have not yet returned to normal. Normality is important for mental well-being.
Another point is that when covid first appeared it was believed to be spread by droplets and masks would probably have been beneficial. However when it become clear that it was spread by aerosols the benefits of masks became less clear. Now we know that only FFP2 and 3 masks are effective in reducing transmission, few of the experts and no one in government has updated the advice. I think this has been to give them some opportunities to say they are taking suitable action to control the virus and they also don’t want to admit the advice was incorrect. Perpetuating the myth of the effectiveness of cloth or surgical masks is appalling.
Mask wearing also signifies that we have not yet returned to normal. Normality is important for mental well-being.
Another point is that when covid first appeared it was believed to be spread by droplets and masks would probably have been beneficial. However when it become clear that it was spread by aerosols the benefits of masks became less clear. Now we know that only FFP2 and 3 masks are effective in reducing transmission, few of the experts and no one in government has updated the advice. I think this has been to give them some opportunities to say they are taking suitable action to control the virus and they also don’t want to admit the advice was incorrect. Perpetuating the myth of the effectiveness of cloth or surgical masks is appalling.
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Eyersey468
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Yes I do wear shoes as it makes it easier to walk on hard ground.
patrick.hearn3
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Prof Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh and wrote a balanced view yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/13/rise-covid-cases-what-we-know-so-far which includes medical-grade masks and ventilation as still important measures we can take [a small part of the larger piece, do read it all for context].
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Eyersey468
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That is to me a balanced article, though I do wonder how many boosters she expects the general population to have, we can't keep giving everyone a booster every few months forever
DustyBin
Established Member
Sridhar changes her mind on a regular basis so personally I don’t take any notice of what she says, although the linked article isn’t her worst by any means!
By “medical-grade masks” I presume she means the (usually) blue disposable type? It’s widely accepted now that they provide little if any protection to the wearer or those around them, so what is the purpose?
I really don’t see why at this stage any of these mitigating measures are necessary to be honest.
Thanks for the clarification
It's the inducement of panic by the media, doubtless for profit motivation, every time Covid cases rise (which they are bound to from time to time) which I think is unacceptable.
As @yorkie and others say, the cases are going to rise and fall regularly. Unless we get a high rate of serious illness and death, it's time to drop the panic and the fear.
It will do people's psychology no good and it will do our fragile economy no good.
As @yorkie and others say, the cases are going to rise and fall regularly. Unless we get a high rate of serious illness and death, it's time to drop the panic and the fear.
It will do people's psychology no good and it will do our fragile economy no good.
I think it is high time that we stopped publishing the COVID statistics completely, and disabled the COVID dashboard online.
By doing this, people wouldn't be able to log on and worry themselves unecessarily by the latest change in the figures.
The government and NHS should continue to monitor the situation, just as they do for every other infectious disease, and those who are eligible for a free flu jab should be offered a booster jab in the autumn.
As with flu, those who are not eligible for a free booster jab could pay a small fee for one if they want to.
But other than that, there is no reason to treat COVID differently from any other endemic virus.
Eyersey468
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I agree
Won't they just get the figures from less reliable sources. Complete 'Why do you think we are not being told ....?'
maybe they can work out how to deliver it with the annual flu jab millions have each year.
DustyBin
Established Member
I suspect most simply wouldn't care enough to look. The problem currently is that the figures are presented in such a way as it's difficult not to see them.
I can't recall the last time I saw any figures. I literally have no idea right now what the UKs figures are like. If people want to go looking let them get them from reputable sources.
On the mask issue, I think there are a number of factors as to why people are perturned by them. I had great difficulty with them early on, though I think I'd more accurately describe it as repulsion or revulsion rather than fear. I found myself having to force myself to get over it, but it took a few months.
Firstly, we have many years of societal conditioning that when we see people wearing a mask it pretty much means one of three things : we're about to undergo a traumatic medical event (probably surgery), something bad is about to happen (eg. a robbery or a physical attack), or the person is downright weird and better avoided (if you're old enough, remember what was said about Michael Jackson when he was wandering around with a mask on). So suddenly when you're surrounded by people with masks in 'everyday' life, it is downright disconcerting, because you've been taught that it means something bad is happening - not just in the vague sense of remembering that there is a 'pandemic' that the behavioural scientists seemed to think was useful, but in a rather more immediate, threatening, sense.
Secondly, there is something hard-wired in humans that expect, and need, to see faces, moving and emoting. Look up 'still face experiment' for details.
And thirdly, as mentioned above, for those of us that opposed all these measures, it was disturbing and irritating to see the vast majority of people wearing a symbol of compliance (or at least not resistance) to them, and something that additionally we suspected at the time (and have since confirmed) was also entirely useless. I've not-entirely-flippantly made the point before that it was like legally making everyone wear a baseball cap saying 'I support invading Iraq' in 2003, which I would have found equally troubling.
Finally, though this didn't apply to me, some people have severe issues with masked people due to previously having been physically or sexually attacked by people with covered faces, or by their face being forceably covered during such an attack, or both.
Firstly, we have many years of societal conditioning that when we see people wearing a mask it pretty much means one of three things : we're about to undergo a traumatic medical event (probably surgery), something bad is about to happen (eg. a robbery or a physical attack), or the person is downright weird and better avoided (if you're old enough, remember what was said about Michael Jackson when he was wandering around with a mask on). So suddenly when you're surrounded by people with masks in 'everyday' life, it is downright disconcerting, because you've been taught that it means something bad is happening - not just in the vague sense of remembering that there is a 'pandemic' that the behavioural scientists seemed to think was useful, but in a rather more immediate, threatening, sense.
Secondly, there is something hard-wired in humans that expect, and need, to see faces, moving and emoting. Look up 'still face experiment' for details.
And thirdly, as mentioned above, for those of us that opposed all these measures, it was disturbing and irritating to see the vast majority of people wearing a symbol of compliance (or at least not resistance) to them, and something that additionally we suspected at the time (and have since confirmed) was also entirely useless. I've not-entirely-flippantly made the point before that it was like legally making everyone wear a baseball cap saying 'I support invading Iraq' in 2003, which I would have found equally troubling.
Finally, though this didn't apply to me, some people have severe issues with masked people due to previously having been physically or sexually attacked by people with covered faces, or by their face being forceably covered during such an attack, or both.
Kite159
Veteran Member
The media wants to ramp up the panic to get people to stay indoors rather than enjoying themselves by going outside.
People indoors will spend more time watching TV etc (more advertising revenue, sales of steaming services etc)
DustyBin
Established Member
It's been on the news channels over the last few days. If people are interested/obsessed (delete as appropriate!) they can check the likes of the ONS which I've no issue with. Making it front page news though is unnecessary in my opinion.
Oh yeah I have sympathy and broadly agree with that. It was more the "they shouldn't be published anywhere" attitude I thought was a bit more iffy!
Agreed. Particularly now it is at a time where the stats have been pared down to the point of being particularly less useful (only England reporting, some stats only released twice a week etc)
The numbers will never be zero. Time to move on and treat it the same as colds/flu etc
Oh who knew! Why doesn’t this surprise me, the likes of the main channels including Sky should be ashamed of themselves, on the flipside isn’t this telling us a different side of the story?
I can’t remember the last time I heard say Sky profits are down or ITV ad revenue etc.
Glad to see that the conspiracy theorists views of events are still going strong!
DustyBin
Established Member
That's fair enough. I think realistically there will be continued monitoring and therefore statistics available for the next year or two.
gabrielhj07
Member
I think the publishing of covid statistics will eventually die out as they are pushed further down any website's page.
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