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Daily refuns of non-travel by season tickets during strike days

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hkstudent

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I have checked the National Rail journey planner for information of daily rate refund of usused season ticket. However, there are clear mentioning of daily rate refund of season ticket.

Is that mean, no pro rata refund of season ticket during the strike if I plan to use the season ticket on the remaining validity of the ticket instead of refund as whole?
 
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Watershed

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I have checked the National Rail journey planner for information of daily rate refund of usused season ticket. However, there are clear mentioning of daily rate refund of season ticket.

Is that mean, no pro rata refund of season ticket during the strike if I plan to use the season ticket on the remaining validity of the ticket instead of refund as whole?
Some TOCs have said on their websites that season ticket holders who do not/cannot travel should submit a Delay Repay claim, giving the reason 'industrial action'.

I would expect that level of compensation from all TOCs to be honest. There isn't really a case for refusing to do so, unless the timetable in place happens to be very similar to the normal one.
 

STINT47

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Some TOCs have said on their websites that season ticket holders who do not/cannot travel should submit a Delay Repay claim, giving the reason 'industrial action'.

I would expect that level of compensation from all TOCs to be honest. There isn't really a case for refusing to do so, unless the timetable in place happens to be very similar to the normal one.

I was under the impression that delay repay can only be claimed if you actually travel? It's based on your actual arrival time compared to the scheduled time.

If you do not or cannot travel how can you input the length of your delay and how canthe TOC work out the level of compensation with no arrival time? Plus as delay repay is based on the timetable on the day it will now be paid out on the strike timetables if you do decide to travel.

I'm sure they will work out a pro rate refund amount for each day and pay it on submited claims but really delay repay is not applicable here. The correct option would be to claim a pro rata refund as you did not start your journey due to delays and or cancellation.

On the plus side for the TOCs they can threaten people who do claim with a fraud prosecution in a few.months time for submiting invalid claims. However if they pay a one off fee they'll avoid court and it will go away !! Toung firmly in check here, even the worst TOC wouldn't go this low, well maybe Northern but...
 

Watershed

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I was under the impression that delay repay can only be claimed if you actually travel? It's based on your actual arrival time compared to the scheduled time.

If you do not or cannot travel how can you input the length of your delay and how canthe TOC work out the level of compensation with no arrival time? Plus as delay repay is based on the timetable on the day it will now be paid out on the strike timetables if you do decide to travel.

I'm sure they will work out a pro rate refund amount for each day and pay it on submited claims but really delay repay is not applicable here. The correct option would be to claim a pro rata refund as you did not start your journey due to delays and or cancellation.

On the plus side for the TOCs they can threaten people who do claim with a fraud prosecution in a few.months time for submiting invalid claims. However if they pay a one off fee they'll avoid court and it will go away !! Toung firmly in check here, even the worst TOC wouldn't go this low, well maybe Northern but...
Normally, yes. However some TOCs ask season ticket holders to claim using the Delay Repay form. So if that's how they want you to do it, that's how it should be done.
 

mmh

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I was under the impression that delay repay can only be claimed if you actually travel? It's based on your actual arrival time compared to the scheduled time.
I've claimed delay repay on multiple occasions where I never arrived at my destination station because it was impossible to do so, and been paid.
 

Starmill

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I was under the impression that delay repay can only be claimed if you actually travel?
Since the old 'void day' refund process was abolished (except for Merseyrail and maybe also Grand Central) most TOCs pay out a pro rated refund for a season ticket not used using their delay repay form.

I don't disagree with you if you think it's confusing and inappropriate that customers are asked to submit claims for delay compensation when they weren't delayed, but that's always been the case whenever there's been serious industrial action.
 

ainsworth74

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I've claimed delay repay on multiple occasions where I never arrived at my destination station because it was impossible to do so, and been paid.
I'd warn against such an approach (unless specifically told to do so in a verifiable way such as by email or website message). People have been accused of fraud for making such claims as delay repay is for a delays not abandoned journeys. In the case of an abandoned journey you should request a refund (or a pro-rata refund in the case of a season) from the retailer.
 

Starmill

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I've claimed delay repay on multiple occasions where I never arrived at my destination station because it was impossible to do so, and been paid.
If your journey is impossible by rail due to service disruption or late notice timetable changes, and you asked the company to arrange alternative transport but this wasn't provided, you're still perfectly entitled to claim based on travelling there 'under your own steam' if you choose to do that instead of recovering damages another way.

I usually make these cases by writing to customer relations to explain what happened however, rather than using the delay repay from.

However some TOCs ask season ticket holders to claim using the Delay Repay form. So if that's how they want you to do it, that's how it should be done.
I'd go so far as to say that when there's been industrial action causing serious disruption, I've never come across any who've done it in any other manner, save the old 'void days' refunds.

I'm sure they will work out a pro rate refund amount for each day and pay it on submited claims but really delay repay is not applicable here. The correct option would be to claim a pro rata refund as you did not start your journey due to delays and or cancellation.
This option does not exist, at least insofar as most season tickets go, because their sale is either via a ticket office or a corporate travel portal such as trainline. There is next to no possibility that a ticket office clerk at the location where you bought your season, or the trainline corporate travel portal will be able to calculate your daily refund and pay it out for you because they aren't given any facility to do so. The customer relations department will in most cases agree the payment, but you may need to invest some time convincing them that they need to pay out.

In the case of an abandoned journey you should request a refund (or a pro-rata refund in the case of a season) from the retailer.
Indeed. And if the retailer of the season is not the operator the customer is travelling with, they will likely refuse to pay out a penny because they've no facility to do a pro rated refund on a ticket not surrendered. For obvious reasons a ticket that still has further validity remaining cannot be surrendered. As above you'd usually need to get in touch with customer relations at the operator you were due to travel with.
 
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ainsworth74

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Indeed. And if the retailer of the season is not the operator the customer is travelling with, they will likely refuse to pay out a penny because they've no facility to do a pro rated refund on a ticket not surrendered.
Hmm fair point! My season is for travel with Northern and their my retailer as well!
 

londonbridge

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In the case of an abandoned journey you should request a refund (or a pro-rata refund in the case of a season) from the retailer.
But it does help if railway staff know the difference between delay repay and abandoned journeys. It was a Saturday morning at Newcastle, I was aiming to do the parkrun at Chester-le-street. Train was 8:10 and showing as on time. Bought my ticket, then the “expected” time began slipping back minute by minute until it reached 8:25, when it changed to delayed. 8:30 gave up, got a metro to Jesmond and ran Newcastle parkrun instead. I then discovered the Chester-le-street train had been cancelled, so back at Central station I asked for a refund for an abandoned journey and was told to claim delay repay from TPE! Said that I hadn’t actually traveled, and was again told delay repay. Had to speak to a second staff member and explain it all again before I got my refund.
 

Haywain

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But it does help if railway staff know the difference between delay repay and abandoned journeys. It was a Saturday morning at Newcastle, I was aiming to do the parkrun at Chester-le-street. Train was 8:10 and showing as on time. Bought my ticket, then the “expected” time began slipping back minute by minute until it reached 8:25, when it changed to delayed. 8:30 gave up, got a metro to Jesmond and ran Newcastle parkrun instead. I then discovered the Chester-le-street train had been cancelled, so back at Central station I asked for a refund for an abandoned journey and was told to claim delay repay from TPE! Said that I hadn’t actually traveled, and was again told delay repay. Had to speak to a second staff member and explain it all again before I got my refund.
But you didn't abandon your journey, you just didn't travel. There's a difference.
 

londonbridge

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How so? My intended journey was Newcastle to Chester-le-street. Train was cancelled. In my view I’ve still abandoned the journey.
 

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I think it's still correct to apply for a refund if you set off but then have to return to where you started without reaching your destination because of disruption, as it is to do so if you never set off from where you're starting.
 

ainsworth74

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But you didn't abandon your journey, you just didn't travel. There's a difference.
I'm not sure there is?

National Rail Conditions of Travel said:
30. Your Right to a Refund If Your Train Is Disrupted and You Choose Not to Travel

30.1 - Conditions 30.1 –30.4 cover all Tickets other than Season Tickets, and also apply if you have begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to a delay to, or cancellation of, your service. In such cases, you are permitted to return to your point of origin and still get a refund.

You may return an unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee charged, if you decide not to travel because the train you intended to use is:
• cancelled, or
• delayed, or
• rescheduled from that in Published Timetable of the Day after you have purchased a Ticket or Tickets, or
• your reservation will not be honoured​

Seems to me that abandoning mid journey is treated the same as abandoning without ever setting off?
 

Iggy12a

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The Southern website advises that for Season ticket holders, the only option is a pro rata refund of the season, less a £10 admin fee, which seems rather harsh.
 

Watershed

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The Southern website advises that for Season ticket holders, the only option is a pro rata refund of the season, less a £10 admin fee, which seems rather harsh.
Certainly the £10 admin fee would not apply if anyone obtained a refund due to the strike.

One option that season ticket holders have is completely refunding their ticket (e.g. if it's a weekly), but the retailer may well argue this should be calculated under the usual season ticket refund scheme, though that may not be the legally correct position.

But anyone who chooses to keep their season ticket (e.g. if it's a monthly or annual) and not travel would be entitled to a pro rata refund of the validity they have lost out on.
 

APT618S

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But anyone who chooses to keep their season ticket (e.g. if it's a monthly or annual) and not travel would be entitled to a pro rata refund of the validity they have lost out on.
Cue lots of people deciding they were going to travel on the Saturday. :lol:
 

TUC

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But you didn't abandon your journey, you just didn't travel. There's a difference.
That's exactly my thought. If a TOC has failed to provide a service, in what way has the passenger abandoned the journey?
 

XAM2175

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How so? My intended journey was Newcastle to Chester-le-street. Train was cancelled. In my view I’ve still abandoned the journey.
I think it's still correct to apply for a refund if you set off but then have to return to where you started without reaching your destination because of disruption, as it is to do so if you never set off from where you're starting.
Seems to me that abandoning mid journey is treated the same as abandoning without ever setting off?
Yes, I don't think there's any ambiguity there. Giving up on your journey and returning to your point of origin is as valid as not setting off at all.

That's exactly my thought. If a TOC has failed to provide a service, in what way has the passenger abandoned the journey?
Because they've given up and headed back to the place at which they started the journey.
 

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My view is that you either didn't travel, or you abandoned the journey short of the destination, having started. You might disagree but that may also be how staff see it.
I agree that it's possible they'd see it that way certainly. However I think in the case of @londonbridge's journey the correct course is still a refund whichever way you see it, once you've asked questions for more detail.
 

ainsworth74

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My view is that you either didn't travel, or you abandoned the journey short of the destination, having started. You might disagree but that may also be how staff see it.
Are talking semantically or contractually? Because semantically if I arrive at the station with ticket in hand (or phone more likely), there's been a bridge strike and all the trains are cancelled so I give up and go home I'd 100% agree that I did not travel. Equally if I arrive at the station, set off, there's bridge strike on route and all trains are cancelled so I turn around and go home having only gotten half-way then again I'd agree 100% that that is an abandoned journey. No problem agreeing that those are different.

But contractually as far as I can see they are the same situation from the point of view of what refund or compensation rights I have.
 

londonbridge

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If the train had already been showing as cancelled when I arrived at the station then I wouldn’t have bought a ticket and would have gone straight off to one of the other local parkruns. That would be choosing not to travel. On the other hand I bought my ticket before the disruption became apparent. I did actually ask a staff member if there was any info as to how long the delay was likely to be but she didn’t know. Since I’d bought a ticket, waiting until it became apparent that I couldn’t reach my destination on time turned it into an abandoned journey in my view.
 
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