londonbridge
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I’m not disputing its right, I just want to know why it’s so high! Lizzie line is meant to be National Rail, is it not, since when was a zone 6-zone1-zone 5 NR journey £13.30??
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Elizabeth line ticketing
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There's a £6-7 premium (don't remember the exact amount) for EL using Heathrow's tunnels.
londonbridge
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Ah, okay, thanks for explaining. It’s just that I was over near Heathrow this morning and decided to take my first ride on the line….don’t think I’ll be using the Heathrow branch much in future then…
swt_passenger
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There’s been a premium fare to/from Heathrow ever since TfL first took over Heathrow Connect. This shouldn’t be seen as a new feature caused by Elizabeth line opening.
People just wanting to take a first ride to Heathrow might be encouraged to start at Hayes & Harlington, ride to Heathrow and then on to their destination and not to touch out or in at the Heathrow stations.
I'm almost all cases there should be enough time to do this within the maximum journey time arrangements.
Elizabeth Line single fare from Heathrow is almost reaching zone 1-6 capping, so any more travel will likely be free. Quite a lot of revenue loss to TfL, especially if the tourist will continue to do many zone 1 journeys on the day.
Alex365Dash
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If you touched out at Paddington's Heathrow Express platforms (having gone via Heathrow), would you be charged the fare from Hayes & Harlington to Paddington or two maximum fares - one from Hayes and Harlington and one to Paddington HEx? (Of which the latter is the HEx fare anyway!)
You should be charged the fare from Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington - no maximum fares involved.
My experience is that the advertised fares will be charged for any journey from Paddington platform 6/7 gates.
londonbridge
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I knew about the Heathrow Connect premium but hadn’t thought/realised about it applying to the Elizabeth Line. I’d done parkrun at Bedfont this week and decided on a whim to get an Elizabeth Line ride out of the way on the way home. Went for breakfast at the Orchard Cafe on the A30 then jogged along the nearby cycle path and came out by the Animal Reception Centre, so I jogged along Southern and Western Perimeter Roads until I reached terminal 5. Guess what I should have done was gone back to Hatton Cross and taken a bus to Hayes or Southall before picking up the train there.
Something strange with connections from North Kent Line stations like Slade Green/Dartford, connecting to services north of Greater London boundary, the ticket system can't offer any via Abbey Wood and Tottenham Court Road/Canary Wharf for Euston/Paddington/Marylebone/King's Cross/ St Pancras cross-London journey despite it should be valid, no matter EZL is treated as LU-Maltese Cross or NR mode.
Seems that ABW-EZL core is not well defined in ticketing system as permitted route
Seems that ABW-EZL core is not well defined in ticketing system as permitted route
Haywain
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You mean journey planners aren't offering this. The simple fact is that if a 'cross-London' ticket is purchased it is valid this way.
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If journey planners aren't offering it, few people will go that way.
Haywain
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If the data says it isn't the fastest route, it won't be offered. However, I did a quick search on a website for a journey of the type suggested - Dartford to Hemel Hempstead - and some of the journeys offered involved changes at Abbey Wood and Tottenham Court Road, so the post I replied to is not correct.
The thing is when I searched further north like Blackpool, Manchester. I tried to force to go via TCR, no journeys can be offered. (NB, selected weekdays and Saturdays for test)
I would imagine that it offers Southern Eastern routes to London Bridge then the Northern Line to Euston as the fastest option. Frankly the time spent travelling from London northwards would likely dominate that trip.
Out of curiosity what does the TfL route planner suggest to get to Euston?
Not just not offering, the NR journey planner even claimed that's invalid as not offering a price tag for that journey.
TfL would say, SE to Abbey Wood, EZL to Farringdon, NOR to Euston
Haywain
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What did the journey planner ‘claim to be invalid’?
3hr44min is the via EZL itinerary, as it's invalid aa having no price on that journey.
I used trainaplit app also, requesting not to split, and no via TCR route can be offered (only split ticket can offer a via TCR journey)
Attachments
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I just ran Slade Green to Euston on Fri 8 Jul at 1730 through the TfL route planner. The results are attached.
Edited to add: Actually TfL offer the same route to Manchester. What l think is going on is that National Rail planners try to maximise time on National Rail services/minimise use of services provided by others whereas TfL seek to maximise use of their own
services.
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I think for stations served by the fast trains from Charing Cross like Dartford Euston to Charing Cross by Northern Line then SE is quicker. As regards not being able to force an itinerary via EL this probably due to its duality i.e. It's seen as a tube line not NR by the planner.
No, it's actually faster to go via EZL than London Bridge according to NR journey planner
The EL is no different to any other National Rail service in terms of how it's treated by journey planners in constructing itineraries. The schedules are output as part of the same feed, unlike the DLR or Tube where there are simply 'fixed links' which represent an approximate journey time based on average frequencies.
The artefact that you describe may mean that certain tube routes are favoured/treated negatively.
Yeah, the problem I am concerned about is on delay repay, which if no fares displayed, may mean the journey not eligible for delay repay claims.
Given how unreliable Southeastern and Thameslink metro can be, there's not a slim chance of miss connection.
I'm not sure why you think this is the case? Delay Repay doesn't depend on your itinerary being one that NRE is willing to offer. Indeed in the case of a convoluted route it might well be impossible to add enough via/not via points.
bakerstreet
Member
I think I understand this concern. I once applied for delay repay with SWR but I received a rejection due to ‘your ticket not being valid on the train/route you were travelling.’ (It was)
I’m assuming that @hkstudent might be concerned about this outcome.
But given that the ticket also has a Maltese cross, it would be valid on the EL even if you went by TfL's purported rules for validity.
Yeah, but in practice, delay repay officers rely on Journey Planner results to determine whether that's valid. They have no capacity in reading the guideline on Maltese Cross.
Furthermore, there are no official transfer time from Abbey Wood to other NR stations, which reduce the sounding of Abbey Wood being a legit cross London timing point.
I really don't think so. They will rely on the output of the delay repay software they use, which is not built to the same rules as online booking engines for instance.
??? Abbey Wood is one station. If you change from EL to Southeastern services the normal minimum interchange time applies, and vice versa. EL services are in the Network Rail data feed and so work in exactly the same way as any other service in terms of constructing itineraries.
I think you are looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
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